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The video they have for building walls show that the magnets and 'grips' on the pieces should make them pretty sturdy. The City stuff has pegs to fit together, and the caverns/dungeon tiles in my collection have enough heft to be pretty resistant to inadvertent moves.

Also, to give the table enough heft to really make your opponent feel it when you kirby-rage-flip the table.

$20 Add-on pledge level (no stretch goals) added.

Three new add-on packs: Stone Bridge, Mountain Pack, Mountain Floor

I don't think the cliff stuff will be what gets my add-on money, but some of those pieces would look so good with my existing Caverns tiles, I'm tempted all the same.

The newest video shows all sorts of "wicked" bits.

I dropped from a Tower to a Ramparts, and even that ($260 US, so about half a million Canadian..) might be pushing my budget, but I remain anxious to see what add ons show up. I've always aimed to get at least the minimum that picks up stretch goals, but with those looking awfully anemic this year, I might just snag my tote and an add on or two, especially if something fancy with LEDs lands again.

I could see using a Ramparts with my existing pieces to make a somewhat ramshackle castle facing, or a Helms Deep style front with caverns bits, but 30'ish pieces for $350 Canadian including shipping is a bit hard to justify right now, even accepting that in size and complexity (magnets everywhere!) these are vastly more complicated pieces than KS1 and 2's "floor piece, wall piece, corner piece".

Which isn't to reneg on my earlier statements of support, merely to recognize my earlier statements of financial reality as possibly coming home to roost.

Guess we'll find out in the next two weeks or so.

I'm a supporter, but I find their weird secrecy totally baffling. Just let us know what's coming - show us the add-on packs. Why wait to reach the totally arbitrary figure of 900k before revealing the tower add-on, which I wager is what a lot of people are waiting for? The uncertainty around the mechanics of all of this is putting people off - there's a lot of discussion in the comments about how exactly you combine towers and castles and what pieces you'll need. And that's totally valid - the value of this system comes from it's modularity, which at the moment seems a bit limited.

And I hate to say it, but yeah, the free stretch goals are pretty damn uninspiring this time around.

And the fact that there are "stretch goal" slots being taken up by add ons that they're going to reveal anyway... Is maddening. I get that it's expensive, I get that the molds for the big pieces are are expensive...

But they're making a killing on this. It's frustrating that those of us who are backing early (ie, doing the KS) aren't really getting that great of a deal. A waving flag? Really? That's what you're putting up as your first stretch goal and it took you 100K to get there?

Uninspiring to say the least.

The slow release of stretch goals is often because they leave themselves the option to swap things around, introduce new sculpts to meet community requests, etc.

That said, I agree about the paid add ons, but I think that's in part because there are no guarantees a given add on will pay itself off (new pieces that is, obviously ones made of existing pieces shouldn't have that issue), so advertising them all runs the risk of not actually pulling the funds to justify all those unique pieces.

As for 'making a killing', they've said a few times that they're on thin margins for this campaign. And given how many campaigns have gotten into trouble not having enough contingency cash baked in, especially once KS/Amazon take their cut, I can believe it. I believe they said they spent something like $800k on molds alone for KS3, so whatever cash they're bringing in, it doesn't seem likely it's going to escorts and blow.

But I do agree that some of the SG's haven't felt particularly inspiring either. Even knowing that they've stated that the size/weight/complexity of the Castle system means they won't be able to massively build out Tiers like they did in KS1 and 2, it is hard to look at a $260 Ramparts (with shipping) and see a handful of mini bits added. Even if that's solidly in their business model, the optics have a bit of disconnect.

Yeah I found myself wondering that last campaign, who these are really aimed at... they've clearly gotten folks to buy in to the ecosystem, and I think there's a lot of momentum from that, but on its own I can't really see the value of this addition.

 Forar wrote:

...
As for 'making a killing', they've said a few times that they're on thin margins for this campaign.
...

I've heard this too, and I just find it hard to believe. I'm sure their molds are expensive. They had a $100,000 funding goal. But to have exceeded that by 800%, and to claim their margins are "thin", that just doesn't add up.

I'm paying $500 for a cool castle (adding the ramparts/crenellations) and I'm excited about that, but I just find it quite a stretch to believe that sum for a nice (albeit not too big) castle alongside 1200+ other folks who are mostly handing over more money than me is returning them thin margins.

I don't begrudge them making a good profit from this. It's great to see these types of toys get made, and I'm happy to pay a premium for good quality stuff especially since it shows a demand, and DF will continue to make their excellent stuff. It's just a bit disheartening to see the project so lean on stretch goals...

 Forar wrote:

As for 'making a killing', they've said a few times that they're on thin margins for this campaign. And given how many campaigns have gotten into trouble not having enough contingency cash baked in, especially once KS/Amazon take their cut, I can believe it. I believe they said they spent something like $800k on molds alone for KS3, so whatever cash they're bringing in, it doesn't seem likely it's going to escorts and blow.

Then maybe they should have run their 3rd and 4th campaigns like their 1st and 2nd, with a focus on value through getting lots of the same modular pieces, rather than tons of oddball pieces with niche uses.

 pancakeonions wrote:
I've heard this too, and I just find it hard to believe. I'm sure their molds are expensive. They had a $100,000 funding goal. But to have exceeded that by 800%, and to claim their margins are "thin", that just doesn't add up.

That's what they've said. I choose to believe them on it. Maybe that 100k was just a lowball (as campaigns sometimes do), maybe they actually could've done the starting pieces, materials and shipping on that, we'll probably never know for sure.

Not to belabor the point, it's reasonable to assume in this day and age of Kickstarters that not everything is exactly what it seems (even for campaigns I support), but considering they (said they) spent nearly a million on molds alone last time, and this time we're looking at maybe 100 unique pieces (some of them bigger than anything seen before, and with a new material in the mix), I doubt they're pulling in half in profit or something like that. And with what they've promised and still hovering around 860k, it wouldn't surprise me if the margins were indeed slim, at least until they start pushing the much higher sums the previous campaigns have been on. Even arrow barrels and mini-steps add up when cutting steel, or so is my (very basic) understanding of these things. If nothing else, the ever smaller backer count (we'll see where this one ends, but it has definitely been a trend) might mean they're not getting nearly the economy of scale savings they might've had previously (which is their choice, but still).

Bossk_Hogg wrote:
Then maybe they should have run their 3rd and 4th campaigns like their 1st and 2nd, with a focus on value through getting lots of the same modular pieces, rather than tons of oddball pieces with niche uses.

I'd be onboard with that, but they'll do what they want to do, and what they think is right for their business. Much as I might be disappointed in the shift, that doesn't make it wrong, just not for me. I'm not a business professional, or in the mini terrain industry, maybe there are aspects that make it more reasonable to do it as they are, or reasons that a campaign in the style of 1 or 2 wouldn't quite cut it. I mean, metal and magnets embedded in pieces are presumably much more resource/money intensive per piece than popping out a bunch of Corner A and Floor Tile C. My attitude is that they can make it as appealing as they want/can afford to, and I'll pitch in what I can justify based on their offerings.

Right now, it's maybe 1/3 of what I popped in for KS3, but part of that is the exchange rate being utter garbage (and neither they nor I can control that).

If we were around parity like we were a few years ago, it might not be nearly as big a deal, but that $260 Ramparts becomes ~$340, for a foot and a half of wall that I might stretch out to around 3 feet if I buffed it out with what I already have. As someone trying to be financially responsible, that's a tough sell.

Edit: apologies if I seem to be repeating myself, I can occasionally get lost in the minutia of context and forget that people might be tired of hearing the particulars noted ad nauseum.

Bossk_Hogg wrote:
Then maybe they should have run their 3rd and 4th campaigns like their 1st and 2nd, with a focus on value through getting lots of the same modular pieces, rather than tons of oddball pieces with niche uses.

Yeah, that. I guess their regular custoers can come up with hundreds of dollars for various different sets of pieces, but I just give up. If they offer fewer pieces, they'd amortize the costs of the molds better, and reduce the price per piece for everyone while making more profit. The business model they have now is to fund for as many molds as possible, and pass the costs to the backers. I *do* know that their more expensive resin pieces keep selling out, so I'm guessing DF *does* know how much per piece their customers will pay for, and prices accordingly during their KS. And, of course, DF has to lead the pack to get the pent-up demand for such pieces.

A good result, though, is that other companies are selling game tiles. I'm also very happy with my Frontline dungeon game tiles and Acheson Creaion's wooden floor game tiles.

Two new mountain add-ons: a mega-pack (with an earth elemental) and an elevation pack (mostly in case you missed out on cavern elevations from KS2).

I DID skip the elevations in KS2, which I later regretted.

On the DF Webstore, the KS2 Pedestal pack is 15 2x2 blocks for $50 (unpainted) or $70 (painted).

So for an extra $7/$10 you replace 5 2x2s with 10 2x1s. Same volume, more flexibility. Considering the KS price includes shipping, this pack makes decent sense for people that want elevations and don't have them already.

Still, certainly no kind of bargain.

Have they shown what you can build with the mega pack anywhere yet?

The elevation packs are useful. It's cheaper and easier to use foam core or gatorfoam for the bulk of your height and stacking needs, but then you still need frontage to hide the foam, depending on what you're building.

(For comparison, if anyone cares, the elevations pack in caverns during the kickstarter was $45/60.)

Looking back at that kickstarter page (here) is really something. There is an economy of sculpts to address a variety of options. I always thought this should be the model. And then maybe have one KS to do a variety of add-ons to the previous handful of KSers. What do I know.

Yea, I'm thinking I'll have to go look for 2" x 2" grey wooden (or something) blocks for elevations. I could probably throw something together myself with a saw, a 2x4, and some paint.

But then I'd have to actually go out and do it... Hmmm

Yeah, I was looking around a bit and found this site: http://www.craftparts.com/blocks-squares-wooden-blocks-cubes-wooden-c-209_212.html

Might be worth picking up a bag of 2"x2" blocks if you plan on getting nuts with elevations.

I'm waiting for this KS to show all it's cards before making any moves though.

I'll start putting these in spoiler tags so it's easier to scroll through the thread.

Now at $925k ish. Average Pledge Per Backer: $759 (yikes)

Latest update is 6" Large Fortified Towers (how is this distinguished from the regular tower? It looks like this is an add-on to add a few floors to the tower), Batter Base to the tower, 12"-long walls, a straight wall pack (with inside walls), and a corner wall pack (with inside walls).

4" towers coming later today, according to the comment section.

Note: DF KSers are so add-on intensive now, sometimes the only way to look at them is the add-on page. Add-on sets are listed here: http://www.dwarvenforge.com/kickstarter-4-add-on-sets/.

New round of add-ons.
* Small tower - palace
* Small tower - fortified
* Large tower - palace
* Ramparts double thick wall pack
* Castle double thick wall pack
* Citadel double thick wall pack
* Long inside walls

1.2m now.
$800+ per backer (!)
32 different add-on packs.

The latest ones are crenellation packs. (I'm just adding one pic below. There are just too many add-on packs. See them all here.) There are packs for large round crennellations, small round, straight, etc.


Motorized drawbridge is next at 1.025m

The lit and motorized drawbridge looks nice. Not sure how much I'd use the latter feature, but adding in some magnets I can think of a few fun things to do with it for various games. Though as a paid add-on, I'll probably skip the motor. Still keeping my fingers crossed for some amazing LED stuff, as the lighting effects are a big hit with my group.

It'll be interesting to see how this one ends, and does make me glad it's their shortest campaign yet. Imagine if we had 2 weeks left rather than just 1.

They added one-click pledges for a small castle and a big one:

Also one for a pair of towers joined with a bridge, and another much smaller one for a pre-built tower/hut thing.

None of them come with stretch goals, but do have an assortment of odds and ends that (imo) make up for it.

Wavering between a Rampart and the mini hut. They still need to reveal the LED add on kits (not just the themed runic/necromantic decoration ones) which will probably be the last bit of info I need to sway my decisions towards something resembling their final point.

The prices...wow!

I wonder how many of those full kits they'll sell?

You can go look at the number of backers for that pledge level and get a pretty good idea. Or wait until Wednesday night for a more accurate number. But however many they sell in the PM and after is anyone's guess.

There are already 39 backers for the full painted Royal Stronghold tier, and I'm sure someone willing to pay that much probably has other tiers and/or a pile of add ons as well.

From reading the comments across 4 campaigns, DF's campaigns have (as discussed earlier) definitely undergone a shift from "get tiles in the hands of everyone" to a more Boutique/Deluxe/Luxury experience. Backers will talk of spending $3-4k+ on a campaign. Some of them seem to either be retired or doing quite well for themselves, or perhaps this annual event has become their one major hobby expenditure of the year.

I'm only half joking when I say that at this rate it'll only be a few more campaigns before they're only getting a couple hundred backers, but those backers are contributing 10k apiece.

Suspended Parapets:


Battlement packs for straights, corners, and towers (not shown)


Balconies (large tower balcony shown here, but there are 3 different ones because...you know...DF has gone from 3 core pieces per set to everything-is-a-special-piece)


Tower bridge (which can integrate with the balconies above)


28mm Castle Defenders


There are so many different add-ons, no forum update can give you the complete picture. DF has a page of updates here.

Other news: a Wicked Alleys set coming either during the KS4 pledge manager or sometime next year. (This is ridiculous. I wish DF would just focus.)

I leave this here without further comment:
According to Kicktraq:
KS4 Average Pledge Per Backer: $946 from 1351 backers (~48 hours to go)
KS3 Cities: $868 from 2718 backers
KS2 Caverns: 542 from 3949 backers
KS1 Dungeons: 354 from 5396 backers

Like DF or not, you have to admit that model castle is gorgeous.

They've also finally added the LED packs! There's a set of pillars with lanterns, and a floor tile with swappable pieces to light up (coals, a fountain, etc) that look pretty awesome, and I think will go nicely on my table for a variety of games.

We're also seeing a bunch of new stretch goals pop up and get cleared now that the funding is flowing freely again.

Pics of the LED sets: