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 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 Aenarian wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 Aenarian wrote:
I am actually unsure if I could kill Magnus without tailoring against him as Death Korps of Krieg, because I don't have any firepower capable of damaging him in large volumes (a few lascannons/laser destroyers will not really affect him) that aren't blasts. On the other hand, I don't think I actually need to kill him since I can probably barrage the rest of his army and then hold objectives, since 650 points would give me almost 9 Earthshakers.

So no, I don't think he's overpowered and is probably fine at 650 points. If his cost was to go up, they would need to reduce the rest of the Thousand Son's army. Hell, they would need to do that anyway.

Flyers kind of have to be built for, it's the reason why Flyrant spam and Flying Circus work, they catch people out for not purchasing Skyfire but they don't have the weakness of relying on grounded units to operate.

Yes, but to down Magnus within a reasonable amount of time I would either need to take fighters (which I don't ever take) or something like three or four Hydras. I could see myself taking one or two perhaps in a normal game, but not four (which would cause something like 1.5-2 wounds per turn). Instead, I could just take more artillery and kill everything else.

That was kind of the point.
Magnus isn't like Flyrant spam. Flyrant spam doesn't care about any tax units left on the ground, Magnus relies on the grounded units.

The issue is tournament wise he is likely to be flyrant spam with him and 3 x Lvl 3 DP whizzing around the board

 rawne2510 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 Aenarian wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 Aenarian wrote:
I am actually unsure if I could kill Magnus without tailoring against him as Death Korps of Krieg, because I don't have any firepower capable of damaging him in large volumes (a few lascannons/laser destroyers will not really affect him) that aren't blasts. On the other hand, I don't think I actually need to kill him since I can probably barrage the rest of his army and then hold objectives, since 650 points would give me almost 9 Earthshakers.

So no, I don't think he's overpowered and is probably fine at 650 points. If his cost was to go up, they would need to reduce the rest of the Thousand Son's army. Hell, they would need to do that anyway.

Flyers kind of have to be built for, it's the reason why Flyrant spam and Flying Circus work, they catch people out for not purchasing Skyfire but they don't have the weakness of relying on grounded units to operate.

Yes, but to down Magnus within a reasonable amount of time I would either need to take fighters (which I don't ever take) or something like three or four Hydras. I could see myself taking one or two perhaps in a normal game, but not four (which would cause something like 1.5-2 wounds per turn). Instead, I could just take more artillery and kill everything else.

That was kind of the point.
Magnus isn't like Flyrant spam. Flyrant spam doesn't care about any tax units left on the ground, Magnus relies on the grounded units.

The issue is tournament wise he is likely to be flyrant spam with him and 3 x Lvl 3 DP whizzing around the board

For 2000 points I can make it happen, how are you getting it below 1850?

depending on how much below 1850 possibly go for hidden sorcerers instead of DP of drop the odd psychic level. Wouldn´t look to use him much below 1500 thought as he is taking up too many points then.

Well, magnus is worth around 600 according to the poll, thanks guys !

600pts actually came in 4th place.

You can't really establish a general consensus with a non-normal distribution.

It's hard to say. He's worth more in a competitive setting cause there are so many things that he's good against - centstars, big shooty robots, big stompy robots, flying around wufwufs. He's also great for killpoint missions that still tend to pop here and there at tourneys. You're also not likely to lose Magnus in the first 4 rounds and he's accidentally more effective at the start when he's still fuelled with WC from the rest of the army.

But in the more relaxed setting he starts to lag behind cause there are less and less good targets for his d-shots, beams and mindcontrols. The games are not usually ending on turn 4, so there's plenty of time to just crubstomp all the magic batteries and go ahead and score vp in a more versatile game of maelstorm simply ignoring or tying Magnus up.

If magnus gets to go first, then his points is well costed, or he might do even better than his current points.

However because of the current meta with stormsurges, drop pods with grav amped grav weapons, wraithknights, I feel he should be costed slightly less. Probably at 550-600 points.

bleak wrote:
If magnus gets to go first, then his points is well costed, or he might do even better than his current points.

However because of the current meta with stormsurges, drop pods with grav amped grav weapons, wraithknights, I feel he should be costed slightly less. Probably at 550-600 points.

That's Eldar and Tau logic.
Taking a big lump of points in a single model SHOULD be a risk.

bleak wrote:
If magnus gets to go first, then his points is well costed, or he might do even better than his current points.

However because of the current meta with stormsurges, drop pods with grav amped grav weapons, wraithknights, I feel he should be costed slightly less. Probably at 550-600 points.

Next you will be saying drop the cost of a WK because he only has 2 big guns and gets owned by grav.

In general, FMCs and GMCs need to cost more. I don't know why that's not true for Magnus. He's effectively immortal.

He is very expensive for a model that can be killed in 1 shot. I admit the WK needs to go up a little as he is auto include in a top end eldar list. and most top end tau lists as well

 rawne2510 wrote:
He is very expensive for a model that can be killed in 1 shot. I admit the WK needs to go up a little as he is auto include in a top end eldar list. and most top end tau lists as well

A revenant titan can be killed by 1 shot on the D table. Being able to be oneshot in a perfect situation is not how we determine points values. Magnus has to worry about being landed and hit by a D shot, or being in melee with a GMC and stomped out on a 6, id take those weakness for a model with his abilities anytime.

A magnus led DP list just won a GT, seems he was worth the 650 for this guy, magnus was his mvp in 4 of his 5 games

https://spikeybits.com/2017/01/magnus-storms-the-scarab-40k-gt.html

But a titan can only be killed by a 6 on the D table and you roll a 6 + 6

I love him as a model and think he should be 650 points for his abilities. I was replying to martel's statement that MC and GMC should be more expensive as they are effectively immortal. MC aren't immortal

 rawne2510 wrote:
But a titan can only be killed by a 6 on the D table and you roll a 6 + 6

I love him as a model and think he should be 650 points for his abilities. I was replying to martel's statement that MC and GMC should be more expensive as they are effectively immortal. MC aren't immortal

how is that different from magnus. You need the 6 to hit him when swooping, than another 6 to destroy him. If you have him on the ground while the wraithknight is still alive, your a weak player (or got siezed on). Mind you i despise the list in the link i provided, it seems niether fun to play as or against. I hate the psychic phase in 40k right now, but the guys a god when supported correctly.

because you can do it with anything that removes you from play on Magnus. the only way to get a titan out is 6 followed by 6 on the D table. there is no other way to do it in 1 shot

 rawne2510 wrote:
because you can do it with anything that removes you from play on Magnus. the only way to get a titan out is 6 followed by 6 on the D table. there is no other way to do it in 1 shot

Helfrost.

a list featuring and relying on Magnus won a grand tournament. it just came out. read his batreps.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 rawne2510 wrote:
because you can do it with anything that removes you from play on Magnus. the only way to get a titan out is 6 followed by 6 on the D table. there is no other way to do it in 1 shot

Helfrost.

How does Hellfrost kill a titan in one shot? I'm not familiar with Hellfrost beyond its bad news towards MEQs.


Also, a Titan has Void Shields. Does D ignore Void Shields? I don't recall.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 rawne2510 wrote:
because you can do it with anything that removes you from play on Magnus. the only way to get a titan out is 6 followed by 6 on the D table. there is no other way to do it in 1 shot

Helfrost.

How does Hellfrost kill a titan in one shot? I'm not familiar with Hellfrost beyond its bad news towards MEQs.


Also, a Titan has Void Shields. Does D ignore Void Shields? I don't recall.

It doesn't, I misread your post.
Helfrost has the potential to remove Magnus in one shot. Any wound caused by a Helfrost weapon forces a Strength test, 6 is a fail regardless of the model's strength. Failure on the strength test means model gets removed from play.
Titans don't have wounds so Helfrost is irrelevant.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 rawne2510 wrote:
because you can do it with anything that removes you from play on Magnus. the only way to get a titan out is 6 followed by 6 on the D table. there is no other way to do it in 1 shot

Helfrost.

I'm talking about the titan.

 rawne2510 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 rawne2510 wrote:
because you can do it with anything that removes you from play on Magnus. the only way to get a titan out is 6 followed by 6 on the D table. there is no other way to do it in 1 shot

Helfrost.

I'm talking about the titan.

Yeah, misread.