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Made in gb
[DCM]
Stonecold Gimster






morgoth wrote:

Now that GW has pulled their head out of their ass and is making awesome rules and solid balance, I'm sure many leavers will come back and many new players will pick 40K.

I assume you were a playtester for nu40k and know how it plays then?
New players are always picking it up. It's the most widespread and thus getting a game is easier.

morgoth wrote:

How much do you think this will ruin the day of games like WMH which can't compete on models and only ever grew like weeds because GW wasn't tending their backyard.

Trolling as usual.

morgoth wrote:

I personally think they're going to see a solid drop around the launch and then a continuous loss of popularity as even the most entrenched 40k haters go back to the miniatures they truly love.

I would imagine other games with their much smaller incomes will barely be touched. GW on the other hand will rake in loads with the cunning re-sell of their best selling range in a slightly larger scale. Many older players of 40k are probably more than happy to stick with the better games they've found, especially since they see this as the giant space marine selling version it is.

morgoth wrote:

It's less clear that it would affect micro games like x wing though but they're not in the same category imo, that's more BFG.

Same category... taking hobby money from us all.

Anyway, I'm not spending any more time responding to the badly written fanboy troll attempt by Morgoth.

My Painting Blog: http://gimgamgoo.com/ 
   
Made in gb
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine





 Azazelx wrote:
The departure of Kirby (and Merrett) is significant.

The actions of Rountree, having taken over relatively recently can already been seen. Bundling, points in AoS, community outreach. If you've worked in any medium-sized organisation, you'll know that the perspectives and desires of the person at the top have a real impact throughout the organisation, particularly if that person is proactive and has a vision that they want for the company.

Kirby definitely had a vision for GW, but as a consumer, I strongly prefer Rountree's one...


Most worrying issues when Rountree took over as CEO: terrible rules, insane prices.

Current most worrying issues: terrible rules (as bad as they've ever been) and insane prices (getting more and more insane with each new release).

Even if the new 40k edition somewhat "solves" the terrible rules part (something I'm quite skeptical about), we still have the insane prices bit. On all accounts, the new shiny toys are going to be more expensive than what came before, continuing the trend of making a price hike with each new release.

The New GW still looks a lot like the Old GW to me, even with the new paintjob and the improved manners (after attempting to shut down competition via lawsuits, and suing child book authors, there was simply no room to fall even lower I guess, the only available way was up).

Also, has Kirby really "left"? Isn't he still the president, and one of the main shareholders of GW?

Progress is like a herd of pigs: everybody is interested in the produced benefits, but nobody wants to deal with all the resulting gak.

GW customers deserve every bit of outrageous princing they get. 
   
Made in es
Krazed Killa Kan




Barcelona, Spain

 Korinov wrote:
 Azazelx wrote:
The departure of Kirby (and Merrett) is significant.

The actions of Rountree, having taken over relatively recently can already been seen. Bundling, points in AoS, community outreach. If you've worked in any medium-sized organisation, you'll know that the perspectives and desires of the person at the top have a real impact throughout the organisation, particularly if that person is proactive and has a vision that they want for the company.

Kirby definitely had a vision for GW, but as a consumer, I strongly prefer Rountree's one...


Most worrying issues when Rountree took over as CEO: terrible rules, insane prices.

Current most worrying issues: terrible rules (as bad as they've ever been) and insane prices (getting more and more insane with each new release).

Even if the new 40k edition somewhat "solves" the terrible rules part (something I'm quite skeptical about), we still have the insane prices bit. On all accounts, the new shiny toys are going to be more expensive than what came before, continuing the trend of making a price hike with each new release.

The New GW still looks a lot like the Old GW to me, even with the new paintjob and the improved manners (after attempting to shut down competition via lawsuits, and suing child book authors, there was simply no room to fall even lower I guess, the only available way was up).

Also, has Kirby really "left"? Isn't he still the president, and one of the main shareholders of GW?


To my understanding he is a glorified secretary in the force org. chart of GW.

Also, on the matter of prizes. He's made a ton of repackages to lower older minis' prizes (mainly fantasy) and made bundles with actual discounts. So there's that on the prizing issue.
   
Made in us
Skilled SDF-1 Pin-Point Barrier Jockey





Mississippi

When the Eldar Aspects are released in plastic and Dire Avengers go back to ten to a box without a price hike, THEN I'll begin to believe they've finally gotten the S.S. Titanic turned around and have started patching the hull (and I'm more of a Tau/Tyranid player myself).

GW has had seven editions to fiddle with the game, and I have no faith they will get it right with number 8. I've heard all the same claims made back in the days of 4E D&D, and it just doesn't ring true. Folks had "broke" 4E D&D within two weeks of its release, I don't think it'll take them that long to do the same with 40K. And I believe we'll quickly find that things weren't playtested as much as they claimed - or, more likely they didn't incorporate playtester's concerns as much as they should have.

I've purchased every starter set for 40K that GW has put out - the new one will be the first one I have ever passed on; neither the Primaris or Death Guard interest me, and I find myself drifting farther afield of buying GW games for other systems with better rulesets. I no longer just buy the new GW hotness on faith - they really have to show their stuff is worth my money these days, and I'm just not feeling it when it comes to 8th edition.


It never ends well 
   
Made in dk
Regular Dakkanaut




With the Battleforce boxes, the Start Collecting boxes, Skirmish boxes, boxed boardgames that contain a ton of minis, it has never been cheaper to get into the hobby, as all of those come with a massive discount from GW, to which you can add a discount from your local seller.
That's not counting things like the SWA boxes and general bundles that includes a discount from GW.

So the continued lie about prices simply being jacked up all the time, is just that. A lie.

Are there exceptions to the rule, certainly. In general though, you get more/better minis with an actual, substantial discount from GW these days. Something that was not true with the recent past GW.


   
Made in us
Skilled SDF-1 Pin-Point Barrier Jockey





Mississippi

What A Crock.

I just bought two boxes of Wargames Factory WW2 Americans/Germans for $7.89 a box (30 good quality figures + options per box), and a box of 10 Eisenkern soldiers for $19.00.

Hell, at the tail end of 5th, I bought the Black Reach set for about $80. Don't even get me started about the Eldar and Tau battleforce boxes from the 90's. Forget the cost - the number of miniatures that came with those sets (about twice that in a Start Collecting box) makes the current offerings look pathetic. GW has been jacking up prices AND cutting model count for years now, and everybody just asks for another shot in the arm.

GW's prices are so jacked that their "discounted" sets are STILL about 20% over the cost they should be. And their rules are still phoned-in insults to the customer.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/31 05:31:40


It never ends well 
   
Made in gb
Captain




London

 Stormonu wrote:
What A Crock.

I just bought two boxes of Wargames Factory WW2 Americans/Germans for $7.89 a box (30 good quality figures + options per box), and a box of 10 Eisenkern soldiers for $19.00.

Hell, at the tail end of 5th, I bought the Black Reach set for about $80. Don't even get me started about the Eldar and Tau battleforce boxes from the 90's. Forget the cost - the number of miniatures that came with those sets (about twice that in a Start Collecting box) makes the current offerings look pathetic. GW has been jacking up prices AND cutting model count for years now, and everybody just asks for another shot in the arm.

GW's prices are so jacked that their "discounted" sets are STILL about 20% over the cost they should be. And their rules are still phoned-in insults to the customer.


This is very true. Current Nu GW seems like they are giving you a deal only because thier prices are so insanely high that any small crumb of a deal seems like a great deal. Soon as you compare against other companies offerings, the offering looks terrible and the "deal" a paltry amount.

This is where the "not space marines/other games don't count/no competition/blind faith in mother GW" justifications begin.
   
Made in jp
Ship's Officer






The Land of the Rising Sun

 ulgurstasta wrote:
I'm curious how 8th edition will affect Mantics Warpath/Firefight. AOS undoubtedly helped the 2nd edition of Kings of War greatly, and Mantic are most likely banking that dissatisfaction with 8th edition will help Warpath/Firefight. But 8th edition doesn´t seem as extreme as AOS and 40k really needed the changes more then WHFB did in my opinion, so they might be disappointed with how things will turn out.




I hope it doesn't at all. I recently jumped ship to Warpath because I was tired not only of GW prices but more importantly because of the mess of rules 7th Ed had become. Last time I played against Tyranids I really thought my opponent was cheating me because there was no way he could put so many special rules in one model, except that he was not. He was using dataslate something + formation whatever + warzone somewhere... you catch my drift.

Warpath/Deadzone/Firefight offers (I hope) a return to more simple rules where I can enjoy an afternoon making pew pew noises and moving figures without having to lug around 25 different rulebooks along with a hundred miniatures and spending a whole day for a single game. If 8th Ed delivers precisely that then yes, Mantic is in trouble. If not I hope to see them grow here in Japan so the number of interested people increases and I can find more people to bring into the game.

M.

Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.

Raxmei wrote:24ps is the range. 24". If that were the points cost then lasguns and plasma guns would cost the same amount and flamers would have a cost of "Souffle".

Every year Golden Week Tournament at www.nagoyahammer.com 
   
Made in es
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine





Lord Kragan wrote:
Also, on the matter of prizes. He's made a ton of repackages to lower older minis' prizes (mainly fantasy) and made bundles with actual discounts. So there's that on the prizing issue.

Some bundles with small discount on insanely overpriced models is not adressing, nor correcting the pricing issue.

It's something yes, but in the end little more than a few stitches and band aids to an already supurating wound.

Spiky Norman wrote:
With the Battleforce boxes, the Start Collecting boxes, Skirmish boxes, boxed boardgames that contain a ton of minis, it has never been cheaper to get into the hobby, as all of those come with a massive discount from GW, to which you can add a discount from your local seller.
That's not counting things like the SWA boxes and general bundles that includes a discount from GW.

So the continued lie about prices simply being jacked up all the time, is just that. A lie.

Are there exceptions to the rule, certainly. In general though, you get more/better minis with an actual, substantial discount from GW these days. Something that was not true with the recent past GW.

A lie?

Is this a joke?

Yeah, old stuff has been bundled together and received small discounts. Care to see what's happening with new models? 40€ Rubric Marines? 45€ Wulfen (five models)? 45€ TS sorcerers (three models)? 29€ Kharn (a single infantry model)? These are NOT exceptions to the rule, it's happening with pretty much every new release. It's absurdly insane in comparison to what every other company is doing in regards to plastic models.

Can't wait to see what's going to happen with the first models during new edition. Gonna be surprised if the Death Guard models aren't at least as expensive as the Wulfen.

Progress is like a herd of pigs: everybody is interested in the produced benefits, but nobody wants to deal with all the resulting gak.

GW customers deserve every bit of outrageous princing they get. 
   
Made in fr
Regular Dakkanaut



France

 Korinov wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:
Also, on the matter of prizes. He's made a ton of repackages to lower older minis' prizes (mainly fantasy) and made bundles with actual discounts. So there's that on the prizing issue.

Some bundles with small discount on insanely overpriced models is not adressing, nor correcting the pricing issue.

It's something yes, but in the end little more than a few stitches and band aids to an already supurating wound.

Spiky Norman wrote:
With the Battleforce boxes, the Start Collecting boxes, Skirmish boxes, boxed boardgames that contain a ton of minis, it has never been cheaper to get into the hobby, as all of those come with a massive discount from GW, to which you can add a discount from your local seller.
That's not counting things like the SWA boxes and general bundles that includes a discount from GW.

So the continued lie about prices simply being jacked up all the time, is just that. A lie.

Are there exceptions to the rule, certainly. In general though, you get more/better minis with an actual, substantial discount from GW these days. Something that was not true with the recent past GW.

A lie?

Is this a joke?

Yeah, old stuff has been bundled together and received small discounts. Care to see what's happening with new models? 40€ Rubric Marines? 45€ Wulfen (five models)? 45€ TS sorcerers (three models)? 29€ Kharn (a single infantry model)? These are NOT exceptions to the rule, it's happening with pretty much every new release. It's absurdly insane in comparison to what every other company is doing in regards to plastic models.

Can't wait to see what's going to happen with the first models during new edition. Gonna be surprised if the Death Guard models aren't at least as expensive as the Wulfen.


Agree, when you see the aos ironjwaz warboss, 34 euros and meganobz box 49 euros for three models, what did they smoke? God, even when you buy on websites with big reductions (like 20%) it's still overpriced.

40: 10 000 Orks, 3000 Tau, 2000 Deathwatch
AOS: 2000 Kharadrons Overlords 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




I think the original question has it backwards based on the two flgs in my area.

Just a sample at my two venue but we have about 4 players in the i'll get back into brigade but these are old school fluff players with an old army in a box in the attic. Their wargaming spend is very low and they might buy a new tank on ebay once a year but that's about it.

On the other hand the two of the three most competitive players who like complexity have taken up Malifaux as a direct result of the simplifaction. So big bonus to that game system

Now all three love 7th and there attitude to 8th are
1) Selling my daemons but will keep BA/Admech/Inquisition stopped plans to get another IK and sisters of silence
2) Now I'm not going to buy any more models that I had been planning too ill just work with what I've got
3) Considering 30k but waiting to read all 8th rules

So why does that matter because player 1) bought 12,000 pts worth of models last year alone so even if those 4 players all spend 10x more on 40k as a result gw will be losing money at least in my venue while Malifaux is laughing all the way to the bank if just one of those players stops buying (after initial book sales)

Not to mention if that sold army is going on ebay that's a lot of models GW won't be selling

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/05/31 11:51:06


 
   
Made in au
Norn Queen






 Korinov wrote:
A lie?

Is this a joke?

Yeah, old stuff has been bundled together and received small discounts. Care to see what's happening with new models? 40€ Rubric Marines? 45€ Wulfen (five models)? 45€ TS sorcerers (three models)? 29€ Kharn (a single infantry model)? These are NOT exceptions to the rule, it's happening with pretty much every new release. It's absurdly insane in comparison to what every other company is doing in regards to plastic models.

Can't wait to see what's going to happen with the first models during new edition. Gonna be surprised if the Death Guard models aren't at least as expensive as the Wulfen.


I see this reasoning a lot. 'The bundles make 40k cheap'. They don't. They make starting 40k cheap. But no one is simply buying 2-3 bundles and calling it a day. Once you have bought a couple of 'discounted' bundles, you'll want to spice it up with more interesting units, and then you're back to paying their standard, absurd pricing.
   
Made in es
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine





 -Loki- wrote:
I see this reasoning a lot. 'The bundles make 40k cheap'. They don't. They make starting 40k cheap. But no one is simply buying 2-3 bundles and calling it a day. Once you have bought a couple of 'discounted' bundles, you'll want to spice it up with more interesting units, and then you're back to paying their standard, absurd pricing.


It also seems confirmed that the initial "index" will cost 20€ each, but in any case they're pretty much watered down versions of the future new codices that will eventually be released.

Also confirmed the new starting box will be 40€ more expensive than Dark Vengeance, and I couldn't care less about the hardback rulebook it will contain. The starting box is meant to get people into the hobby, with that goal in mind a softback mini-rulebook is more than enough.

Sooo, cost of entry going down, eh?

Same old, same old GW.

Progress is like a herd of pigs: everybody is interested in the produced benefits, but nobody wants to deal with all the resulting gak.

GW customers deserve every bit of outrageous princing they get. 
   
Made in us
Skilled SDF-1 Pin-Point Barrier Jockey





Mississippi

I'm disappointed we won't apparently be getting free army lists (even if they were partial) to go with the free rules. I want to try out the new rules, but I'm certainly not buying short-term indexes to do so.

It seems like every time GW comes up to bat since I've returned that they manage to hit the ball (out of the park), but its on the wrong side of the foul line.

It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Spiky Norman wrote:
With the Battleforce boxes, the Start Collecting boxes, Skirmish boxes, boxed boardgames that contain a ton of minis, it has never been cheaper to get into the hobby


Pedantic but necessary point: it has never been cheaper to get into Games Workshop

Except...it has been cheaper. 2nd Edition start box and army books were less expensive.

Today, there are plenty of games with a lower cost of entry.

Heck, even other GW games are cheaper still. You can get into Shadow Wars for a $40 book and a $50 box of plastic and you're done. And there's that small starter for AoS which has a handful of models in it, which are perfectly legal to play with.

   
Made in ca
Posts with Authority




I'm from the future. The future of space

So here's one negative possibility I see:

We know from AoS players self reporting that they came over from 40k and from 40k slipping to the number 2 spot behind X-Wing in non collectible miniature games in North America that people have left 7th edition 40k in not insignificant numbers.

So who is left? The people who really like 7th edition. The same sort of people who denigrate Age of Sigmar.

And then GW just came out with a replacement 40k that is Sigmarized. People are already looking through the leaked index books and starting to freak out.

Even if a bunch of people come back from X-Wing or WM/H or Infinity or whatever, they may not equal the spending of a die hard 7th edition fan who leaves.

Every edition has a shake up in who the active customers are, but it's still quite possible that 7th edition players won't click with 8th as the ones who would have already left 7th edition.

In a different thread I predicted 8th edition might go on to be GW's best selling version of 40k ever with all the people talking about how they used to play but now they are coming back. But what happens if the people who returning are far more price sensitive than those who are now alienated?

I'm coming back and I'm surely not going to spend as much as many 7th edition players do. The guy complaining about the lack of chapter tactics for his three different marine armies is worth way more as a customer than me with my casual low model count approach.

A points system is a tool to create balance. Let's use it to intentionally seek out imbalance in order to win and then blame the game designer for it not working!  
   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending





Houston, TX

frozenwastes: Good insight. Cannibalization of sales is always dangerous for a company. In the short term, it makes the newer line look good (AoS). In the longer term, it hurts the other line and may end up killing one or both. It also often amounts to a "shifting of the chairs" and not an increase in overall sales. It *can* be part of an effective strategy, but that generally means the newer product replaces the older, which seems unlikely here.

I think the biggest danger is still the tremendous barriers to entry. The models are expensive, both compared to other competing miniature lines and non-miniature competitors. There is also an enormous amount of prep work to have something other than expensive grey plastic game markers. To me, the big question is does this new edition offer enough incentive to buy new models. Quick, easy playing rules that allow generous model mixing will do that. But will it counterbalance the ever increasing prices and hobby work required?

-James
 
   
Made in ca
Posts with Authority




I'm from the future. The future of space

If AoS: skirmish ends up being an evergreen product and GW actively markets to new players and comes up with a 40k equivalent, they might have the barrier issue cracked. The only thing missing is a page or so on transitioning from high renown skirmish games to low points full games.

A new 40k mini starter with a skirmsh booklet, core rules pamphlet and a guide to transitioning to the larger game? Could be the ideal starter for GW

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/01 01:47:14


A points system is a tool to create balance. Let's use it to intentionally seek out imbalance in order to win and then blame the game designer for it not working!  
   
Made in us
Rogue Grot Kannon Gunna





Atlanta, GA

 Korinov wrote:
29€ Kharn (a single infantry model)?


Kharn is a special character that you're only ever going to need ONE of. Which is exactly why characters like this are more expensive. Privateer Press also prices a lot of their newer warcaster models in the $25-40 range, because again, you only ever need one of them.

Also, the pricing argument is so tiresome. God forbid that a luxury hobby actually costs more money than a meal for two at Applebee's.
   
Made in us
Skilled SDF-1 Pin-Point Barrier Jockey





Mississippi

God forbid GW set reasonable prices in the first place. Unfortunately, price is one of the driving factors in this whole business, and GW's prices are on the silly side of the spectrum.

Several of my own 40K armies are composed of non-GW models for the very reason of price - my IG is made of trenchcoat figures from the Wargames Factory line - easily a 100 guardsmen for about $50, and I have several non-GW marines (a squad of Centurions from a 90's metal line, my assault marines are from another line again from the 90's [50 such marines for $19], and my Chapter master is a resin figure from yet another line that was $10-$15).

While I understand that the single characters cost more because folks are only buying one, selling them for about $30 a pop is still ridiculous. If they need to be that expensive for a single hero, they don't need to be made in the first place (yet another reason for me not to allow heroes in the games I play).

It never ends well 
   
Made in es
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine





 Mr. Grey wrote:
 Korinov wrote:
29€ Kharn (a single infantry model)?


Kharn is a special character that you're only ever going to need ONE of. Which is exactly why characters like this are more expensive. Privateer Press also prices a lot of their newer warcaster models in the $25-40 range, because again, you only ever need one of them.

Also, the pricing argument is so tiresome. God forbid that a luxury hobby actually costs more money than a meal for two at Applebee's.

So what if he's a special character? Does representing a special character in a tabletop game count as a excuse for charging 29€ for a single, infantry-sized humanoid plastic model?

Privateer may do as their wish with their own stupidly overpriced models, still not a excuse for GW's insane pricing policy.

What "luxury hobby" are you talking about? Wargaming and model collecting are not necessarily luxury hobbies, there are tons of wargames you can play without investing a high amount of money in, and same for assembling collections of models.

The Hobby(tm) as understood by diehard GW fanatics, on the other hand...

Progress is like a herd of pigs: everybody is interested in the produced benefits, but nobody wants to deal with all the resulting gak.

GW customers deserve every bit of outrageous princing they get. 
   
Made in se
Been Around the Block




Sweden

 Korinov wrote:
 Mr. Grey wrote:
 Korinov wrote:
29€ Kharn (a single infantry model)?


Kharn is a special character that you're only ever going to need ONE of. Which is exactly why characters like this are more expensive. Privateer Press also prices a lot of their newer warcaster models in the $25-40 range, because again, you only ever need one of them.

Also, the pricing argument is so tiresome. God forbid that a luxury hobby actually costs more money than a meal for two at Applebee's.

So what if he's a special character? Does representing a special character in a tabletop game count as a excuse for charging 29€ for a single, infantry-sized humanoid plastic model?

Privateer may do as their wish with their own stupidly overpriced models, still not a excuse for GW's insane pricing policy.

What "luxury hobby" are you talking about? Wargaming and model collecting are not necessarily luxury hobbies, there are tons of wargames you can play without investing a high amount of money in, and same for assembling collections of models.

The Hobby(tm) as understood by diehard GW fanatics, on the other hand...


Actually, what's the price difference between plastic and white metal these days? Because if white metal's more expensive, then it'd mean that PP are charging less for one-off models made in a more expensive material than GW are.

I mean, Wolf Lord Krom is $30, while Reznik 1, a similarly sized model, is $17.99.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/01 18:19:58


 
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut





rmeister0 wrote:
Spiky Norman wrote:
With the Battleforce boxes, the Start Collecting boxes, Skirmish boxes, boxed boardgames that contain a ton of minis, it has never been cheaper to get into the hobby


Pedantic but necessary point: it has never been cheaper to get into Games Workshop


Ah but the Games Worshop IS The Hobby(tm). Didn't you get the note?-)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mangod wrote:
Actually, what's the price difference between plastic and white metal these days? Because if white metal's more expensive, then it'd mean that PP are charging less for one-off models made in a more expensive material than GW are.

I mean, Wolf Lord Krom is $30, while Reznik 1, a similarly sized model, is $17.99.


Though price of material is hardly the full deal. Remember moulds cost money and plastic ones are very expensive. The fact it's special character DOES matter as that means you sell only 1 generally per player which means you sell less sprues which means price per sprue needs to be bigger.

While there's hefty GW price tax added the mere fact that GW insists on plastic for everything will ramp up the price of plastic characters(specials or not). Right material for right purpose. As long as GW insists on plastic on characters they will be expensive even if GW bonus is removed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/01 18:46:48


”Buddhism doesn't tell you what is false and what is true but it encourages you to find out for yourself.” ~ Chogyam Trungpa ~ 
   
Made in es
Brutal Black Orc




Vigo. Spain.

Spoiler:
 Korinov wrote:
 Mr. Grey wrote:
 Korinov wrote:
29€ Kharn (a single infantry model)?


Kharn is a special character that you're only ever going to need ONE of. Which is exactly why characters like this are more expensive. Privateer Press also prices a lot of their newer warcaster models in the $25-40 range, because again, you only ever need one of them.

Also, the pricing argument is so tiresome. God forbid that a luxury hobby actually costs more money than a meal for two at Applebee's.

So what if he's a special character? Does representing a special character in a tabletop game count as a excuse for charging 29€ for a single, infantry-sized humanoid plastic model?

Privateer may do as their wish with their own stupidly overpriced models, still not a excuse for GW's insane pricing policy.

What "luxury hobby" are you talking about? Wargaming and model collecting are not necessarily luxury hobbies, there are tons of wargames you can play without investing a high amount of money in, and same for assembling collections of models.

The Hobby(tm) as understood by diehard GW fanatics, on the other hand...


Actually, collecting miniatures is a hell of a expensive hobby, not only GW. Yeah yeah, "The fact that others are overpriced don't excuse GW for being overprice": I agree with that, but one has to see the market with perspective.

I don't buy apple, because I don't like to pay so much for something that I don't like when I can buy Windows. The same goes with GW. I buy miniatures that I like at the prices I find reasonable. I can pay 30€ for a single plastic miniature if I really love it, but maybe I just don't pay 10€ for a Metal Miniature because it doesn't has the same subjetive value for me even if is cheaper and in a objetive level of the exact same quality.

The most expensive miniature hobby out there is actually collectin Legos Have you seen the price of that? I have a friend that collects legos and makes figures with legos, and he has pay like 40-50€ for a single Lego figurine (The ones that are small and yellow). To me thats crazy, to him is reasonable because he really likes it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/01 19:37:34


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Reynoldsburg Ohio

I do think 8th will have impact, but not because it will damage the competition, but because some of the competition has already started doing things to hurt themselves. I mean games like Infinity will be fine. Guildball should be fine, but they could also be having issues I'm not aware of.

Warmachine..... well they started on their downward slide about a year or so before Mrk III came out. The line ticket debacle of Gencon 2015 comes to mind.

Mantic.... They have never really been that stable Ronnie has serious game ADD. and that holds them back as a company.

Spartan... Again Game ADD

Hawk... DropZone was strong for a few years, but their lack of community interaction during development of Drop Fleet has had an impact on both games.

But at the end of the day 8th will stand on its own, it is not meant to hurt the competition, it is meant to be its own game and bring back community engagement.

I started out playing with Warmachine, not because that was how I discovered war gaming (I was playing WotC Star Wars minis before that) it was just at the time I didn't automatically hate the people who played it. I can't say that about other games.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Mangod wrote:
 Korinov wrote:
 Mr. Grey wrote:
 Korinov wrote:
29€ Kharn (a single infantry model)?


Kharn is a special character that you're only ever going to need ONE of. Which is exactly why characters like this are more expensive. Privateer Press also prices a lot of their newer warcaster models in the $25-40 range, because again, you only ever need one of them.

Also, the pricing argument is so tiresome. God forbid that a luxury hobby actually costs more money than a meal for two at Applebee's.

So what if he's a special character? Does representing a special character in a tabletop game count as a excuse for charging 29€ for a single, infantry-sized humanoid plastic model?

Privateer may do as their wish with their own stupidly overpriced models, still not a excuse for GW's insane pricing policy.

What "luxury hobby" are you talking about? Wargaming and model collecting are not necessarily luxury hobbies, there are tons of wargames you can play without investing a high amount of money in, and same for assembling collections of models.

The Hobby(tm) as understood by diehard GW fanatics, on the other hand...


Actually, what's the price difference between plastic and white metal these days? Because if white metal's more expensive, then it'd mean that PP are charging less for one-off models made in a more expensive material than GW are.

I mean, Wolf Lord Krom is $30, while Reznik 1, a similarly sized model, is $17.99.


Reznik comes with all his rules to play him right out of the box, wolf lord does not.
   
Made in au
Norn Queen






 Mr. Grey wrote:
 Korinov wrote:
29€ Kharn (a single infantry model)?


Kharn is a special character that you're only ever going to need ONE of. Which is exactly why characters like this are more expensive. Privateer Press also prices a lot of their newer warcaster models in the $25-40 range, because again, you only ever need one of them.

Also, the pricing argument is so tiresome. God forbid that a luxury hobby actually costs more money than a meal for two at Applebee's.


That may be GW's position on pricing, but other game manufacturers do fine without such pricing strategies. For example, Infinity special characters are priced the same as regular models. They price based on the overall production cost, not the quantity of that model they intend for you to buy or in game impact, because those are irrelevant.

GW's overall pricing strategies are absurd. Highest priced models on the market, with games that require the highest model count on the market, combined with pricing based on in game logic pushing certain kits ever higher makes their games by far the most expensive.

You might be tired of hearing the pricing argument, but that just means it's actually a problem, or people wouldn't bring it up so often. Playing FFG games, Wyrds games, Corvus Bellis games, Privateer presses games and many other manufacturers are the exact same luxury hobby as GW's games, and outside of Privateer Press, there's very few complaints about the pricing. That should tell you something about their pricing in the overall hobby.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/01 23:55:18


 
   
Made in es
Brutal Black Orc




Vigo. Spain.

 -Loki- wrote:

Playing FFG games, Wyrds games, Corvus Bellis games, Privateer presses games and many other manufacturers are the exact same luxury hobby as GW's games, and outside of Privateer Press, there's very few complaints about the pricing. That should tell you something about their pricing in the overall hobby.


Haven't you meet Kanluwen?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/02 02:24:28


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in au
Norn Queen






 Galas wrote:
 -Loki- wrote:

Playing FFG games, Wyrds games, Corvus Bellis games, Privateer presses games and many other manufacturers are the exact same luxury hobby as GW's games, and outside of Privateer Press, there's very few complaints about the pricing. That should tell you something about their pricing in the overall hobby.


Haven't you meet Kanluwen?


First, yes.

Second, I see you bolded where I said 'very few', not 'none'.

Third, he complains about a hell of a lot, but only rarely pricing.
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut





 -Loki- wrote:

That may be GW's position on pricing, but other game manufacturers do fine without such pricing strategies. For example, Infinity special characters are priced the same as regular models. They price based on the overall production cost, not the quantity of that model they intend for you to buy or in game impact, because those are irrelevant.


What's the material? Metal or resin? If those it's actually huge difference to plastic models in terms of 1 model price being cheap. And of course isn't infinity small scale game so basically every model is low sale(unlike say 40k where difference can be easily 10+ times sprues for unit sold per player rather than 1 for special character) and price for models seems to be more expensive all around. Rank&file are even more pricey than GW prices.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/02 10:49:38


”Buddhism doesn't tell you what is false and what is true but it encourages you to find out for yourself.” ~ Chogyam Trungpa ~ 
   
 
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