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Wyldcarde wrote:
Yes I agree that larger units making the most of the soulburst is good. But there is a lot to be said for dark eldar beasts as 1 man units running around among your lines. Razorwing flocks in particular are awesome at 7 points per unit. Run them in tandem with your combat dudes. Shining spears especially. Charge the flock in first. Opponent either overwatches the flock and kills it, letting the spears or whatever soulburst to shoot again, or they take the charge allowing the unit to charge in unhindered. 7 points ain't going to break the bank

Indeed. The Razorwings are just security and a very cheap one.

Ynnaris conundrum is that when SfD triggers you want the biggest possible one to do it, but the 7" area is quite small. Hence there´s a tension going on.

My gut feeling is that its better to have a big scrum where you get more chances to trigger than betting on shooting because of proximity. Further Yncarne is a melee monster and brings a support bubble. I don´t agree that it´s either Yvraine or Yncarne. Rather does Yvraine enable a T1 Yncarne as she can propel a big unit into enemy lines. Well deployed they act as triggers and support for the Daemon. Next turn the rest of the melee host joins up. Another cheaper scenario is to propel a big screen of Razors into their line to tie them down and not shoot down our transports. On the topic if Yncarne there shooting is needed to summon it. Something Rangers and Death Jesters can do well.

Sending in shooters seem more risky as the natural control element of locking opponents in melee is absent. Shooters have their place, but as anti-tank and anti-aura generators imho. Better let the melee experts (e.g. Harlies or Wyches) bring Fusion Pistols as close to the trigger area as possible and capitalize on bonus shooting there over hoping a squad of Fire Dragons hovering by being able to.

 Bloodshade wrote:
3WW full Starcannon are 363 points.
12 S6 AP-3 D3 at 36". Twice with WotP (cheapest is Yvraine at 132). 495 total.

I mean, it's an actually s**t storm for the enemy, but plain 1/4 of your army goes there.

I don't know, it's both a good and a bad idea.

Star cannon is 3 auto damage

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Bloodshade wrote:
3WW full Starcannon are 363 points.
12 S6 AP-3 D3 at 36". Twice with WotP (cheapest is Yvraine at 132). 495 total.

I mean, it's an actually s**t storm for the enemy, but plain 1/4 of your army goes there.

I don't know, it's both a good and a bad idea.

Star cannon is 3 auto damage

Just for comparison purposes, a unit of 2 Hornets with Hornet Pulse Lasers would yield you 12 Str6 AP-3 D2 shots at 48" range for 290 points.

 Bloodshade wrote:
3WW full Starcannon are 363 points.
12 S6 AP-3 D3 at 36". Twice with WotP (cheapest is Yvraine at 132). 495 total.

I mean, it's an actually s**t storm for the enemy, but plain 1/4 of your army goes there.

I don't know, it's both a good and a bad idea.

Wraithknight with 2 star cannons and sun cannon. OMG - if you get pheonix off you have - 4d6 Str6 ap -3 d3 damage shots + 8 str 6 ap-3 3 damage shots. Holy moley!

Or try it on a revenant...

Wyldcarde wrote:
Or try it on a revenant...

Yeah that's busted - needs to be fixed. Should only affect units that can soulburst. I think players will get seriously tired of Writhknights shooting half their armor off the board with a single unit.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Wyldcarde wrote:
Or try it on a revenant...

Yeah that's busted - needs to be fixed. Should only affect units that can soulburst. I think players will get seriously tired of Writhknights shooting half their armor off the board with a single unit.

I completely disagree. Other armies have their gimmicks, this is ours. also word of the phoenix allows all units to be able to soulburst, not just ones with Strength from Death. It's wonderful!

I want to try a sword and shield Wraithknight moving twice with WotP for a T1 charge, then have the Yncarne summoned by whatever gets killed.

Xenomancers wrote:Star cannon is 3 auto damage

Absolutely right, mah bad.

I didn't mention any FW units because I don't have the FW index (would like to, I have the feeling that Shadow Spectres coul be key for Ynnari, can anyone conferme?), so I took as example what a user said about WWs with WotP would be imbalanced.
And after reading what some of you wrote, I think that a WK is actually even better and arguably less squishy than 3 WW.

Question for FW book owners: do we have any FW vehicle of some kind that absolutely wrecks infantry mobs (let's say 30+) that we can use to cast WotP on it and take out a plain unit per turn? Would help a lot against Orks, Nids and IG. Something like 2 or 3D6 S4-5 shots (fired twice) would be good.

Have no FW unit for mobs, and my dire avengers handle orks just fine.

hows the yncarne doing? hes expensive as hell but i haven't played any 8th yet, very busy.

Splinter cannon cloud dancer jetbikes benefiting from doom can be very good anti horde.

Otherwise the only even slightly anti horde is a pheonix with nigjtshroud missiles 2d6 ap-1 dmg1 twin shuricannons and can grab twin starcannons (very expensive over the stock pulse laser).

 Bloodshade wrote:

Xenomancers wrote:Star cannon is 3 auto damage

Absolutely right, mah bad.

I didn't mention any FW units because I don't have the FW index (would like to, I have the feeling that Shadow Spectres coul be key for Ynnari, can anyone conferme?), so I took as example what a user said about WWs with WotP would be imbalanced.
And after reading what some of you wrote, I think that a WK is actually even better and arguably less squishy than 3 WW.

Question for FW book owners: do we have any FW vehicle of some kind that absolutely wrecks infantry mobs (let's say 30+) that we can use to cast WotP on it and take out a plain unit per turn? Would help a lot against Orks, Nids and IG. Something like 2 or 3D6 S4-5 shots (fired twice) would be good.

Shadow spectres are 14" move with a -1 to hit when shooting the unit. +3 save as well.
Armed with 18" range Str 6 ap-3 guns that on a hit roll an additional attack, max 3 hits per model.
Or they can be heavy flamers for d6 Str 5 -1 ap each.
I feel they will be quite strong with psychic support. Conceal makes them -2 to hit. 2+ save in cover. Guide them and they are likely to be making 20+ shots a turn. And you don't really want to charge them either or you take 9d6 autohits. So I wouldn't say key to ynnari but definitely a potent weapon.

But shadow spectres have been out of stock for months now :(

eosgreen wrote:hows the yncarne doing? hes expensive as hell but i haven't played any 8th yet, very busy.

He is a beast!!!! Definitely try and fit him into a list. He is not an easy model to field, he takes some tactical play and timing, but he can be devastating to your opponent.

being able to soulburst a model without SfD is most likely the reason why only 2 models have access to this spell.

it is redonks on hemlock and even crimson hunters.

I am not 100% sold on transports or windriders anymore for my ynarri. SFD also appears to benefit foot harlequins/druhkari the most.

I have 2 venoms with 5 warriors (1 blaster) in each. while putting out a ton of splinter fire a turn the transports are almost double the number of points of the warriors.

I am struggling to find really solid troop choices. Kabalites seems like the go to, or troupes.

the army can be very cheesy, with 3 formations you can easily run 6 or so hemlocks with yvraine and cheap throw away Hqs if you want. Being able to WotP a wraithknight may bring him back into the light for me. he is a ton of points and his firepower isn't all that impressive. for less than his points you get 2 voidravens (amazing) with 2lances and d6 missiles a turn nevermind the bomb. Voidraven has been my PVP almost every game now.

I am interested to see what lists are working for people right now. I've been playing for fun but i can definitely see some shenanigans with the army.

Wyldcarde wrote:
Shadow spectres are 14" move with a -1 to hit when shooting the unit. +3 save as well.
Armed with 18" range Str 6 ap-3 guns that on a hit roll an additional attack, max 3 hits per model.
Or they can be heavy flamers for d6 Str 5 -1 ap each.
I feel they will be quite strong with psychic support. Conceal makes them -2 to hit. 2+ save in cover. Guide them and they are likely to be making 20+ shots a turn. And you don't really want to charge them either or you take 9d6 autohits. So I wouldn't say key to ynnari but definitely a potent weapon.

Thanks!
Well, could be key in a sense that I personally feel the Ynnari should work as an elitary force rathen than a MSU one, so I was looking for effective units that could fit multiple roles (like them with their rifles/flamers). This is because I think that with small units like 3-size Windriders the amount of shooting you get from a caused soulburst action is negligible AND you only get one soulburst, not one for each.
Need to test this idea of course, I'm still tinkering around it and how could razorwings fit in it.

 BergerFett wrote:
being able to soulburst a model without SfD is most likely the reason why only 2 models have access to this spell.

it is redonks on hemlock and even crimson hunters.

I am not 100% sold on transports or windriders anymore for my ynarri. SFD also appears to benefit foot harlequins/druhkari the most.

I have 2 venoms with 5 warriors (1 blaster) in each. while putting out a ton of splinter fire a turn the transports are almost double the number of points of the warriors.

I am struggling to find really solid troop choices. Kabalites seems like the go to, or troupes.

the army can be very cheesy, with 3 formations you can easily run 6 or so hemlocks with yvraine and cheap throw away Hqs if you want. Being able to WotP a wraithknight may bring him back into the light for me. he is a ton of points and his firepower isn't all that impressive. for less than his points you get 2 voidravens (amazing) with 2lances and d6 missiles a turn nevermind the bomb. Voidraven has been my PVP almost every game now.

I am interested to see what lists are working for people right now. I've been playing for fun but i can definitely see some shenanigans with the army.

Hemlock has been for me. As well as D scythe wraithguard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bloodshade wrote:

Wyldcarde wrote:
Shadow spectres are 14" move with a -1 to hit when shooting the unit. +3 save as well.
Armed with 18" range Str 6 ap-3 guns that on a hit roll an additional attack, max 3 hits per model.
Or they can be heavy flamers for d6 Str 5 -1 ap each.
I feel they will be quite strong with psychic support. Conceal makes them -2 to hit. 2+ save in cover. Guide them and they are likely to be making 20+ shots a turn. And you don't really want to charge them either or you take 9d6 autohits. So I wouldn't say key to ynnari but definitely a potent weapon.

Thanks!
Well, could be key in a sense that I personally feel the Ynnari should work as an elitary force rathen than a MSU one, so I was looking for effective units that could fit multiple roles (like them with their rifles/flamers). This is because I think that with small units like 3-size Windriders the amount of shooting you get from a caused soulburst action is negligible AND you only get one soulburst, not one for each.
Need to test this idea of course, I'm still tinkering around it and how could razorwings fit in it.

Wraithgard and firedragons are really the units that benifit from soulburst the most. They are the most able to self proc it + WG are tough enough that putting them in a big unit isn't a terrible idea.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Wraithgard and firedragons are really the units that benifit from soulburst the most. They are the most able to self proc it + WG are tough enough that putting them in a big unit isn't a terrible idea.

Yeah. Basically any very specialized unit is optimal, as it has the most chances to do its work and be able to get a soulburst and do it twice. This is why I think Elite > MSU with SfD.

Wyldcarde wrote:

 Bloodshade wrote:

Xenomancers wrote:Star cannon is 3 auto damage

Absolutely right, mah bad.

I didn't mention any FW units because I don't have the FW index (would like to, I have the feeling that Shadow Spectres coul be key for Ynnari, can anyone conferme?), so I took as example what a user said about WWs with WotP would be imbalanced.
And after reading what some of you wrote, I think that a WK is actually even better and arguably less squishy than 3 WW.

Question for FW book owners: do we have any FW vehicle of some kind that absolutely wrecks infantry mobs (let's say 30+) that we can use to cast WotP on it and take out a plain unit per turn? Would help a lot against Orks, Nids and IG. Something like 2 or 3D6 S4-5 shots (fired twice) would be good.

Shadow spectres are 14" move with a -1 to hit when shooting the unit. +3 save as well.
Armed with 18" range Str 6 ap-3 guns that on a hit roll an additional attack, max 3 hits per model.
Or they can be heavy flamers for d6 Str 5 -1 ap each.
I feel they will be quite strong with psychic support. Conceal makes them -2 to hit. 2+ save in cover. Guide them and they are likely to be making 20+ shots a turn. And you don't really want to charge them either or you take 9d6 autohits. So I wouldn't say key to ynnari but definitely a potent weapon.

Hmm I thought Shadow spectres only has 12" move?

Also, has it been confirmed you can use Word of the Phoenix on models/units without SfD? I know in 7th you cannot use it on vehicles and the verbiage of WotP didn't change (I think).

Yes, it has been done during official GW stream on Twitch and confirmed by them as someone in chat asked explicitly.
You can cast WotP on any Ynnari unit.

 Bloodshade wrote:
Yes, it has been done during official GW stream on Twitch and confirmed by them as someone in chat asked explicitly.
You can cast WotP on any Ynnari unit.

Yeah...I read back a page or two and saw it. Thanks! Soulbursting WK!!! Now it makes more sense a WK is more expensive than a IK.

Shining spears and warp spiders have been my sfd MVP so far.
They both are short range so if their target dies they are likely to trigger. But their mobility is the huge bonus. Both are able to get into the 7" range easily and can then either sfd to shoot again or retreat back 20" or even propel into the enemies back line. I had an imperial guard player kill my shining spears after they destroyed 2 Valkyries only for the nearby warpspider squad warp jump 20 inches straight at his tanks and screening conscript blob. Next turn they moved up, hosed the conscripts to 3 left before charging and killing them to then shoot up the tanks before consolidating into 2 of them.

Wyldcarde wrote:
Shining spears and warp spiders have been my sfd MVP so far.
They both are short range so if their target dies they are likely to trigger. But their mobility is the huge bonus. Both are able to get into the 7" range easily and can then either sfd to shoot again or retreat back 20" or even propel into the enemies back line. I had an imperial guard player kill my shining spears after they destroyed 2 Valkyries only for the nearby warpspider squad warp jump 20 inches straight at his tanks and screening conscript blob. Next turn they moved up, hosed the conscripts to 3 left before charging and killing them to then shoot up the tanks before consolidating into 2 of them.

How do you feel shining spears compare to other jetbikes like reavers or skyweavers.

Very well. They are more expensive but you get a lot of bonuses for the extra price.
A few of the changes made to the rules have really benefited them. The fact that they can fire all their weapons now and twin linked being double shots means each guy gets an extra 4 shots a turn from the catapaults which still benefit from their tank hunter and any psychic cast on them. The 4+ inv save and 2 wounds makes them more durable and their lances pack a punch lacked by the other options.
They do draw a lot of fire but can easily absorb it with some average rolling. and if the opponent doesn't kill them they will run amok.

 BergerFett wrote:
being able to soulburst a model without SfD is most likely the reason why only 2 models have access to this spell.

it is redonks on hemlock and even crimson hunters.

I am not 100% sold on transports or windriders anymore for my ynarri. SFD also appears to benefit foot harlequins/druhkari the most.

I have 2 venoms with 5 warriors (1 blaster) in each. while putting out a ton of splinter fire a turn the transports are almost double the number of points of the warriors.

I am struggling to find really solid troop choices. Kabalites seems like the go to, or troupes.

the army can be very cheesy, with 3 formations you can easily run 6 or so hemlocks with yvraine and cheap throw away Hqs if you want. Being able to WotP a wraithknight may bring him back into the light for me. he is a ton of points and his firepower isn't all that impressive. for less than his points you get 2 voidravens (amazing) with 2lances and d6 missiles a turn nevermind the bomb. Voidraven has been my PVP almost every game now.

I am interested to see what lists are working for people right now. I've been playing for fun but i can definitely see some shenanigans with the army.

I´m thinking a big flock of Razors to tie them down T1 (preferably with an escorting Beastmaster) and transported Troupes and Wyches to charge in T2. Then adding flyers to the threat list as target Saturation is important for expensive and brittle elvsies.

 lambsandlions wrote:

Wyldcarde wrote:
Shining spears and warp spiders have been my sfd MVP so far.
They both are short range so if their target dies they are likely to trigger. But their mobility is the huge bonus. Both are able to get into the 7" range easily and can then either sfd to shoot again or retreat back 20" or even propel into the enemies back line. I had an imperial guard player kill my shining spears after they destroyed 2 Valkyries only for the nearby warpspider squad warp jump 20 inches straight at his tanks and screening conscript blob. Next turn they moved up, hosed the conscripts to 3 left before charging and killing them to then shoot up the tanks before consolidating into 2 of them.

How do you feel shining spears compare to other jetbikes like reavers or skyweavers.

Windriders just seem bad. Skyweavers seem generally a bit worse than Spears. They're not nearly as shooty inside 12" and they're not comparable in CC without an expensive upgrade. They're significantly more durable against many weapons, and aren't bothered nearly as much by plasma, though they're still really vulnerable to bolter fire. Probably still worth taking since they can move 22" and charge; they might be pretty good for trying to tie things up as your other units close in. Basic Reavers are really unimpressive -- they're Windrider-level. Lots of guns will remove a whole model per wound with no save. Their special weapons seem like a much worse way to try to take these than infantry in Venoms or Raiders. Their upgrades are kind of interesting and you'd probably want to take as many grav-talons as possible no matter what.

I am really not in love with windriders right now. I am just not sure what to take instead.

On paper the stuff is sort of unimpressive. I get the buff stacking from WotP and some of the eldar seer. I have been leaning more towards a kabalite warrior spam. They are cheap, wound most things on 4s, wound vehicles on 6s. Just volumes and volumes of fire.

Scourges are definitely interesting but I am unsure how to build them. Plus if you go with all blasters or all lances you need to buy those bits.

Fire warriors and dark reapers seem amazing but im not a fan of the metal/finecast models and part of me really thinks that ynnari are the future for aeldari and the aspect warriors may never see production again.

I don't mind windriders. I think they are basically on point when you look at the cost of models throughout many armies and our range. Speed is one of the higher taxes on models. I have been running Shurikan windriders 3x3 with my Ynnari, and they have done just fine. Enough range to keep behind my forward line, speed to flank and pick off characters or grab objectives. They aren't lets bring max scatpacks to win games anymore, but they shouldn't be.

I think the cost of bikes for characters is egregious. And I think they messed up the warlock conclave really badly. There is no reason to take a conclave over just single warlocks. I guess maybe a slightly larger aura? but only slightly with a bunch of downside to doing so (like losing character status). If you look at power levels. They match 9-10 warlocks in a conclave to the same PL as 2 Wraithknights or Imperial knights. I find it hard to believe they would match up on the table. (maybe i am totaly wrong... i hope so i loved my conclave ha!)

Windriders can bring most shuriken cannons for their points compared to other units. I played 3 games with Saim Hann already and I don't see why they are "bad". They gained increased threat range, they can proc SfD, and can fall back from melee and shoot. They're pretty excellent. D2 spam is a counter match up for them but that's something to overcome as you can't do much about it.

They're better than Warp Spiders by far because '24 range&Fly is just better.

I think the cost of bikes for characters is egregious

That I can agree with. However, you do gain combination of Smite, 22 Move and SfD for Farseer or Laser Lance+Fusion gun+Catapults + Charge + SFD for Jetbike Autarch, meaning enemy characters/backline are never completely safe. Same for Shining Spears - jumping behind enemy line, killing something and SfD'ing 22 inches away is hilarious.
Plus there are not obvious advantages - for example, Vindicare wounds jetbike characters on 3+ instead of 2+, etc.