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The bows would not bother me as much if it were established that the Tzaangors use pre-black powder technology. But the next squad over has autopistols and chainswords. And their space marine bosses have guns that shoot magic bullets. So no, magic bows don't make sense.

Provided known units cost the same then there’s around 350 points left for the mutilath beast, the shaman and 9 Skyfires

Just a ballpark guess but
Mutilath 170 (similar to forge/maulerfeind)
Shaman 80 (similar to herald price)
9 Skyfire 100

I can’t imagine they’re more than they’re 11 points each.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
The bows would not bother me as much if it were established that the Tzaangors use pre-black powder technology. But the next squad over has autopistols and chainswords. And their space marine bosses have guns that shoot magic bullets. So no, magic bows don't make sense.

Tzaangors don't have to use bolt pistols and chainsword in 40K, they can use their AoS weapons (Tzaangor Blades).

In AoS fluff, the Enlightened and Skyfires are particularly successful/devoted Tzaangors that have proven themselves to Tzeentch and receive rewards from him in the form of daemonic weapons and Disks of Tzeentch.
Thousand Sons' psykers imbue the Rubricae with sorcerous bolts. Tzaangor Skyfires use daemonic bows gifted to them by Tzeentch (again, in AoS fluff).

Seriously, why is this even an argument? Daemonic/magical bows that are guided by fate stretch your imagination too far but hyper advanced races resorting to melee combat doesn't?

Guyver 3 wrote:
Provided known units cost the same then there’s around 350 points left for the mutilath beast, the shaman and 9 Skyfires

Just a ballpark guess but
Mutilath 170 (similar to forge/maulerfeind)
Shaman 80 (similar to herald price)
9 Skyfire 100

I can’t imagine they’re more than they’re 11 points each.

When I put the list into Battlescribe I had 408 points left. I doubt the Skyfires are going to be that cheap, maybe the melee Enlightened will be but I can't see Tzaangors with nearly triple the speed and deadly ranged weapons being only a few points more per model. The Mutalith sounds like one of those monsters that will sit around the 200 point mark, which hopefully means we're getting points drops for the Rubrics/Scarab Occult. Now that we know Skyfires only have 1 Wound each though, I'm not as certain anymore.

Truly Thousand Sons threads have birthed some of the dumbest arguments lately. I swear about every 4 posts I find myself sighing and shaking my head.

Tzeench, the Chaos god of.....





Nuff said. Now back to rumors and/or constructive discussion in at least ONE thread?

Caederes wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
The bows would not bother me as much if it were established that the Tzaangors use pre-black powder technology. But the next squad over has autopistols and chainswords. And their space marine bosses have guns that shoot magic bullets. So no, magic bows don't make sense.

Tzaangors don't have to use bolt pistols and chainsword in 40K, they can use their AoS weapons (Tzaangor Blades).

In AoS fluff, the Enlightened and Skyfires are particularly successful/devoted Tzaangors that have proven themselves to Tzeentch and receive rewards from him in the form of daemonic weapons and Disks of Tzeentch.
Thousand Sons' psykers imbue the Rubricae with sorcerous bolts. Tzaangor Skyfires use daemonic bows gifted to them by Tzeentch (again, in AoS fluff).

Seriously, why is this even an argument? Daemonic/magical bows that are guided by fate stretch your imagination too far but hyper advanced races resorting to melee combat doesn't?

It's not that they stretch my imagination too far. It's that they don't fit thematically. Just looking at them, why would they have bows when they obviously have access to firearms? And if your only answer is "magic" then that's basically a textbook case of "a wizard did it".

Why is this even an argument?

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Caederes wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
The bows would not bother me as much if it were established that the Tzaangors use pre-black powder technology. But the next squad over has autopistols and chainswords. And their space marine bosses have guns that shoot magic bullets. So no, magic bows don't make sense.

Tzaangors don't have to use bolt pistols and chainsword in 40K, they can use their AoS weapons (Tzaangor Blades).

In AoS fluff, the Enlightened and Skyfires are particularly successful/devoted Tzaangors that have proven themselves to Tzeentch and receive rewards from him in the form of daemonic weapons and Disks of Tzeentch.
Thousand Sons' psykers imbue the Rubricae with sorcerous bolts. Tzaangor Skyfires use daemonic bows gifted to them by Tzeentch (again, in AoS fluff).

Seriously, why is this even an argument? Daemonic/magical bows that are guided by fate stretch your imagination too far but hyper advanced races resorting to melee combat doesn't?

It's not that they stretch my imagination too far. It's that they don't fit thematically. Just looking at them, why would they have bows when they obviously have access to firearms? And if your only answer is "magic" then that's basically a textbook case of "a wizard did it".

Why is this even an argument?

Because a wizard quite literally did it. Tzeentch is a big wizard. The bows were given to the Tzaangors by Tzeentch. Ergo, "a wizard did it" is completely valid reason. Why bows and not guns? Idk, why does his mutalith look like a cross between a star nosed mole and an oversized dog? Why the fixation on birds? Tzeentch is weird.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

It's not that they stretch my imagination too far. It's that they don't fit thematically. Just looking at them, why would they have bows when they obviously have access to firearms? And if your only answer is "magic" then that's basically a textbook case of "a wizard did it".

Why is this even an argument?

Do swords, hammers, axes, maces, claws, giant fists, etc fit thematically into a sci-fi game? Do anime robots fit thematically into a grimdark universe? Do Rough Riders fit thematically into the Astra Militarum forces?

"A wizard did it" literally explains how Rubric Marines fire Inferno Bolts, how Imperial/Chaos space-ships travel, how the Primarchs came to be, how the entire setting of 40K functions, etc. Not the best way to present your argument!

Tzeentch is the God of Magic. Daemons and followers of Tzeentch are noted for using magic. Thousand Sons are noted for using magically-enhanced weaponry (Inferno bolts, force weapons). The most venerated of the Tzaangors are known for using weapons gifted to them by Tzeentch. 2+2=4.

Surely you have to realize how utterly absurd this argument is?

Caederes wrote:
In AoS, Enlightened and Skyfires have double the wounds of normal Tzaangors, not +1. Even with the role-change for Tzaangors from elite infantry to fodder infantry in 40K, it still seemed a safe bet the Enlightened would at least have 2 Wounds each. I'm incredibly surprised it's not the case, and given the theoretical damage output of at least the bow unit, it sounds like they will be more of a glass hammer unit than anything else which doesn't necessarily bode well for the melee variants - it will all come down to costs.

Just a tip apply rules by role not by model. Now if we could talk about the thing we should be talking about.

We have what looks to be 21 strats, 3 pages as mentioned in the stream. (top left corner) DG only have 15 and CSM has 24 I believe

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Truly Thousand Sons threads have birthed some of the dumbest arguments lately. I swear about every 4 posts I find myself sighing and shaking my head.

Tzeench, the Chaos god of.....





Nuff said. Now back to rumors and/or constructive discussion in at least ONE thread?

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
We have what looks to be 21 strats, 3 pages as mentioned in the stream. (top left corner) DG only have 15 and CSM has 14 I believe

Death Guard have 14 stratagems, CSM have 24.

Mchaagen wrote:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
We have what looks to be 21 strats, 3 pages as mentioned in the stream. (top left corner) DG only have 15 and CSM has 14 I believe

Death Guard have 14 stratagems, CSM have 24.

Yeah that 14 was a typo : /

Anyways we are some where inbetween I was expecting something more like what DG got we are getting way more.

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

Mchaagen wrote:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
We have what looks to be 21 strats, 3 pages as mentioned in the stream. (top left corner) DG only have 15 and CSM has 14 I believe

Death Guard have 14 stratagems, CSM have 24.

Yeah that 14 was a typo : /

Anyways we are some where inbetween I was expecting something more like what DG got we are getting way more.

Holy hell; you said something positive.

SHOCKED!

Don't fall for it! He's just setting you up for the next meltdown.

Caederes wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

It's not that they stretch my imagination too far. It's that they don't fit thematically. Just looking at them, why would they have bows when they obviously have access to firearms? And if your only answer is "magic" then that's basically a textbook case of "a wizard did it".

Why is this even an argument?

Do swords, hammers, axes, maces, claws, giant fists, etc fit thematically into a sci-fi game? Do anime robots fit thematically into a grimdark universe? Do Rough Riders fit thematically into the Astra Militarum forces?

"A wizard did it" literally explains how Rubric Marines fire Inferno Bolts, how Imperial/Chaos space-ships travel, how the Primarchs came to be, how the entire setting of 40K functions, etc. Not the best way to present your argument!

Tzeentch is the God of Magic. Daemons and followers of Tzeentch are noted for using magic. Thousand Sons are noted for using magically-enhanced weaponry (Inferno bolts, force weapons). The most venerated of the Tzaangors are known for using weapons gifted to them by Tzeentch. 2+2=4.

Surely you have to realize how utterly absurd this argument is?

The same argument could justify arming them with magical banana creme pies (for throwing in battle, -1 AP cuz magic) - doesn't make it any less stupid or immersion breaking.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Caederes wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

It's not that they stretch my imagination too far. It's that they don't fit thematically. Just looking at them, why would they have bows when they obviously have access to firearms? And if your only answer is "magic" then that's basically a textbook case of "a wizard did it".

Why is this even an argument?

Do swords, hammers, axes, maces, claws, giant fists, etc fit thematically into a sci-fi game? Do anime robots fit thematically into a grimdark universe? Do Rough Riders fit thematically into the Astra Militarum forces?

"A wizard did it" literally explains how Rubric Marines fire Inferno Bolts, how Imperial/Chaos space-ships travel, how the Primarchs came to be, how the entire setting of 40K functions, etc. Not the best way to present your argument!

Tzeentch is the God of Magic. Daemons and followers of Tzeentch are noted for using magic. Thousand Sons are noted for using magically-enhanced weaponry (Inferno bolts, force weapons). The most venerated of the Tzaangors are known for using weapons gifted to them by Tzeentch. 2+2=4.

Surely you have to realize how utterly absurd this argument is?

The same argument could justify arming them with magical banana creme pies (for throwing in battle, -1 AP cuz magic) - doesn't make it any less stupid or immersion breaking.

Can you guys take this elsewhere, please? This 'debate' is neither News nor Rumors: now it's just annoying the crap out of those of us who WANT News and/or Rumors.

Permaban everyone crying about magic or bows in 40k.

Never ceases to amaze me how people on Dakka can waste pages of a thread rambling about stupid BS no one cares about.

 Virules wrote:
Permaban everyone crying about magic or bows in 40k.

Never ceases to amaze me how people on Dakka can waste pages of a thread rambling about stupid BS no one cares about.

People care about different things, for some its the fluff, then game, others its different, dont be so dismissive of what they care about just because you dont care, I disagree with what they are saying and am happy to poke a bit of fun at it.


Annnnyway back on topic, do we know yet if we have any decent anti tank outside of vehicles?

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

Ahriman21 wrote:
citation for enlightened being 1 wound a piece? I didn't notice that.

Re watch the stream at 1:56:00 when the stormbolter could be a hurricane bolter since 6 shots is firing at the Enlightened 6 shots 6 hits, 4 wounds (2s and 3s removed) S4 weapon, at least 1 save (6,4,3,3) 2 models removed. Hard to do with screen caps cause I would need like 6.

Upon further review I think he was shooting the Skyfires with a twinlinked heavy bolter (6 shots). Which means still 1 wound but T 5.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Formosa wrote:

 Virules wrote:
Permaban everyone crying about magic or bows in 40k.

Never ceases to amaze me how people on Dakka can waste pages of a thread rambling about stupid BS no one cares about.

People care about different things, for some its the fluff, then game, others its different, dont be so dismissive of what they care about just because you dont care, I disagree with what they are saying and am happy to poke a bit of fun at it.


Annnnyway back on topic, do we know yet if we have any decent anti tank outside of vehicles?

The Skyfires are decent anti tank/monster with prescience and a reroll 1s your looking at an average of 6 armor saves against anything they wound on 5s. Thats only single shots, double that if they get 2 shots or d3 shots. 12 armor saves is nothing to scoff at.

 Virules wrote:
Permaban everyone crying about magic or bows in 40k.

Never ceases to amaze me how people on Dakka can waste pages of a thread rambling about stupid BS no one cares about.

Calling for people to be permanently banned for discussing stuff you disagree with/don't care about. Wow. Stay classy.

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

Ahriman21 wrote:
citation for enlightened being 1 wound a piece? I didn't notice that.

Re watch the stream at 1:56:00 when the stormbolter could be a hurricane bolter since 6 shots is firing at the Enlightened 6 shots 6 hits, 4 wounds (2s and 3s removed) S4 weapon, at least 1 save (6,4,3,3) 2 models removed. Hard to do with screen caps cause I would need like 6.

Upon further review I think he was shooting the Skyfires with a twinlinked heavy bolter (6 shots). Which means still 1 wound but T 5.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Formosa wrote:

 Virules wrote:
Permaban everyone crying about magic or bows in 40k.

Never ceases to amaze me how people on Dakka can waste pages of a thread rambling about stupid BS no one cares about.

People care about different things, for some its the fluff, then game, others its different, dont be so dismissive of what they care about just because you dont care, I disagree with what they are saying and am happy to poke a bit of fun at it.


Annnnyway back on topic, do we know yet if we have any decent anti tank outside of vehicles?

The Skyfires are decent anti tank/monster with prescience and a reroll 1s your looking at an average of 6 armor saves against anything they wound on 5s. Thats only single shots, double that if they get 2 shots or d3 shots. 12 armor saves is nothing to scoff at.

I think it's already been said they are D3 shots.

Skyfires will be a must-take as long they're competitively priced. With rhinos no longer necessary to move our units up the board we are free from the restraints of vehicle support for our army... Our enemies will shoot their lascannons at single wound models and by Tzeentch they will like it!

Things are starting to look more positive, much better than the index for sure.

I'm really curious how well Tzeentch Daemons are going to integrate with the Thousand Sons.

This thread has been WAYYYY too off-topic. This is a thread-wide warning here, but further OT posts will be dinged.

 Lorek wrote:
This thread has been WAYYYY too off-topic. This is a thread-wide warning here, but further OT posts will be dinged.

So, I guess this thread is intended for discussion of the rules only and not the models or fluff? If so, apologies for the off topic.

 Lorek wrote:
This thread has been WAYYYY too off-topic. This is a thread-wide warning here, but further OT posts will be dinged.

Oh, thank god.

Now, 21 strats (we already know 2) what is the likely hood we get ALL the generic CSM Strats?

Could we get any Daemon Strats?

Does anyone think they might have made the Heavy Bolter D2 for the Custodes? (this would make Skyfires 2 W)

Do you think Skyfires/Enlightened will have the option to hove it?

Will the Mutalith have all CC buffs or will it have some ranged buffs as well do you think?

Will the Rubrics get a Points drop if so by how much? (personally I think they are going to make AS and SOS full fledged Sorcs with 1 spell and full smite)



If you want to bitch about things you don't like go here

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/748275.page

Question: were the skyfires being used on foot or on disc? Do we know if they will have a non disc option?

SilverAlien wrote:
Question: were the skyfires being used on foot or on disc? Do we know if they will have a non disc option?

They were all on Discs, As of right now I believe they can be brought on foot in AoS no clue if we can get them on foot.

Re-watched the video again looks like Skyfires get 1 attack each, (4 models 9 attacks, Discs give 1, Tzaangors get 1 each, Twistbray gets 2)

Edit: Nope never mind he rolled the Discs separately looks like 2 Base attacks on Skyfires, and Thier bows have AP of -1

I play both TS and Grey Knights. While I would LOVE to up the psychic game of the TS, the GK player in me wants to cry foul.

No way in heck should any squad leader in a psychic-heavy list be a full-on psycher when even GK librarians (supposedly one of the best Marines psychers) are totally gimped.

 cuda1179 wrote:
I play both TS and Grey Knights. While I would LOVE to up the psychic game of the TS, the GK player in me wants to cry foul.

No way in heck should any squad leader in a psychic-heavy list be a full-on psycher when even GK librarians (supposedly one of the best Marines psychers) are totally gimped.

GK Psykers have two powers, smite plus their special. Before, 1k Sons only had smite light. This only brings them to par, with a little bit of a buff allowing them to pick their power. But we dont even know how big the list will be they can pick from. It could be as small as 2. GK's also have far more in their army.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 Lorek wrote:
This thread has been WAYYYY too off-topic. This is a thread-wide warning here, but further OT posts will be dinged.

So, I guess this thread is intended for discussion of the rules only and not the models or fluff? If so, apologies for the off topic.

Nice snark. No, you missed the point. This wasn't aimed at you at all, it was the posts on page four that were no relevant to the codex at all.