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Except Astra militarum got that with their double shooting no to hit penalty Leman Russ's, not to mention they always had nlos artillery.

Right now my biggest bug is it feels like GW is basing buffs, nerfs and points cost for units based upon 7th edition performance not based upon how they work in 8th edition.

 admironheart wrote:
A squad of marines or even 3 should inspire fear....in the lore they do....in game not so much.

The eldar are a dying race....yet all their tech involves throwing lots of eldar lives away with in your face fighting?

Both of those factions should be represented the lowest of all model counts.

1 to 3 eldar in a squad..but it is a b-ass squad with tech that is nuts.

10 Marines....is the anchor to any battle line toughest unit in a game to kill..

Would love to see an edition where they cost 100 points a model but are sooo worth the price.

Hundreds of Guard....check
Hundreds of Nids....check
Hundreds of Orks.....check
15 marines......omg that is OP
a dozen eldar....this is going to be tough!

GW have acknowleged in the past that Marines are underpowered compared to fluff. They do it to make them more interesting amd balanced to play. They actually wrote up rules for more True To Fluff rules in an old Chapter Approved and called them Movie Marines.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Chapter_Approved/Movie_Marines

 Sim-Life wrote:

 admironheart wrote:
A squad of marines or even 3 should inspire fear....in the lore they do....in game not so much.

The eldar are a dying race....yet all their tech involves throwing lots of eldar lives away with in your face fighting?

Both of those factions should be represented the lowest of all model counts.

1 to 3 eldar in a squad..but it is a b-ass squad with tech that is nuts.

10 Marines....is the anchor to any battle line toughest unit in a game to kill..

Would love to see an edition where they cost 100 points a model but are sooo worth the price.

Hundreds of Guard....check
Hundreds of Nids....check
Hundreds of Orks.....check
15 marines......omg that is OP
a dozen eldar....this is going to be tough!

GW have acknowleged in the past that Marines are underpowered compared to fluff. They do it to make them more interesting amd balanced to play. They actually wrote up rules for more True To Fluff rules in an old Chapter Approved and called them Movie Marines.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Chapter_Approved/Movie_Marines

Also if they were fluff levels of power (which themselves are all over the place) they would be high points cost and hence very low sales.

Jbz` wrote:

Techpriestsupport wrote:
People who get a land raider model and assemble it with the godhammer lascannon mounts on the rear hatchways instead of the front ones. Putting them on the front hatchways is the only sensible way to mount them. Putting them on the front hatchways lets the marines embark and disembark from the rear hatchways and the lascannon mounts give them some cover from fire from the front while they're. Going thru the hatchways. Putting them on the rear hatchways means the barrels of the lascannons block the front hatchway and they don't cover the marines as they embark or disembark.

The Land raider pattern doesn't matter. Every pattern should have the weapons on the front hatch.

Because otherwise the guns would have to stop long enough for the disembarkation (a transport shooting it's own passengers ass they disembark would be a bit too wasteful even by Imperium/Chaos standards)

The Taurox is my pet hate, for the same reason. The guns, by default, are mounted behind the doors, which open 'normally', so you have protection from enemy fire as you get out, but you will be obliterated by the guns on your own vehicle. Anyone who takes the risk of riding in a Taurox in the 41st millenium is totally badass.

My pet hate is kits that don't come with enough bits to make the standard unit configuration - so devastator kits that come with one of each heavy weapon, and khorne berzerkers not having enough chainaxes for the whole squad. However, I usually understood this to mean that 'chainaxes' in the codex meant 'chainaxe or chainsword', in which case, my pet hate is unnecessarily specific codex wordings that don't relate to the kits! So either update the kit to have enough chainaxes, or change the wording in the codex (NB: I don't have the 8th ed codex).

My pet hate is one that looks like it's being rectified (via primaris marines), and that is models without helmets that aren't actually carrying a helmet. Some people hate helmetless models full stop, because you'd be an idiot to not wear one in battle, which is true. However, I see models as able to represent different moments in time, so they aren't necessarily fighting at the moment the were captured in plastic. They could be on a hill, overseeing the battle, on board their strike cruiser, resting after a bloody melée, and so on, and they could be helmetless for those moments, but they are, they should have a helmet on their belt, backpack, or in one hand. Granted, I make no effort to rectify this myself, and hence my own models annoy me... hahaha

I hate that I can't take an Enginseer in my Death Korp army without bringing more skitarii or paying 1CP for the Aux detachment.

I also hate that some people have labelled me a soup player because I bring that single Enginseer.

 Romeo Blue wrote:
I hate that I can't take an Enginseer in my Death Korp army without bringing more skitarii or paying 1CP for the Aux detachment.

I also hate that some people have labelled me a soup player because I bring that single Enginseer.

That sucks. It's weird how things have changed. The word 'soup' as an insult should not be used for people augmenting a force with fluffy extra models (Assassins, Inquisitors, Enginseers).

dosiere wrote:

 Venerable Ironclad wrote:
The hurricane bolters on the sides of the Storm Raven bug me because when facing forwards the bottom two guns would be pointed into the vehicles own armor. Likewise I have never been a fan of the Leman Russ Tanks because of its lack of any suspension.

Dang it, not only have I never really liked the Russ tanks looks but I never picked up on that. Now it’s all I see when I look at one. Does it have road wheels behind the armor if you cut a 1/4inch or so of it away?

It used to, but it doesn't now - the current kit has two fewer sprues (the wheels sprue and the track links sprue) than the old kit, as they eliminated parts that had no use.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

 admironheart wrote:
A squad of marines or even 3 should inspire fear....in the lore they do....in game not so much.

The eldar are a dying race....yet all their tech involves throwing lots of eldar lives away with in your face fighting?

Both of those factions should be represented the lowest of all model counts.

1 to 3 eldar in a squad..but it is a b-ass squad with tech that is nuts.

10 Marines....is the anchor to any battle line toughest unit in a game to kill..

Would love to see an edition where they cost 100 points a model but are sooo worth the price.

Hundreds of Guard....check
Hundreds of Nids....check
Hundreds of Orks.....check
15 marines......omg that is OP
a dozen eldar....this is going to be tough!

GW have acknowleged in the past that Marines are underpowered compared to fluff. They do it to make them more interesting amd balanced to play. They actually wrote up rules for more True To Fluff rules in an old Chapter Approved and called them Movie Marines.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Chapter_Approved/Movie_Marines

Also if they were fluff levels of power (which themselves are all over the place) they would be high points cost and hence very low sales.

Those aren't fluffy, they're stats that would be given to an action movie protagonist, hence the term ''Movie''.

 corpuschain wrote:


The Taurox is my pet hate, for the same reason. The guns, by default, are mounted behind the doors, which open 'normally', so you have protection from enemy fire as you get out, but you will be obliterated by the guns on your own vehicle. Anyone who takes the risk of riding in a Taurox in the 41st millenium is totally badass.

You could always ... take your finger off the "Fire" button when dudes are getting into or out of the van... maybe you could even have a warning sign on it.
Unless its conscripts, because the bullet might go through them and still hit the enemy...

(of course trying to re-embark in the middle of a firefight while the crew is distracted by shooting the enemy and might not notice you approaching might be chancy)

Cheeslord wrote:

 corpuschain wrote:


The Taurox is my pet hate, for the same reason. The guns, by default, are mounted behind the doors, which open 'normally', so you have protection from enemy fire as you get out, but you will be obliterated by the guns on your own vehicle. Anyone who takes the risk of riding in a Taurox in the 41st millenium is totally badass.

You could always ... take your finger off the "Fire" button when dudes are getting into or out of the van... maybe you could even have a warning sign on it.
Unless its conscripts, because the bullet might go through them and still hit the enemy...

(of course trying to re-embark in the middle of a firefight while the crew is distracted by shooting the enemy and might not notice you approaching might be chancy)

I suppose the simplest thing to do would be to link the door handle to the firing mechanism, so when you turn it, the gun is disabled. They only re-enable once the door is closed.
I'm sort of tempted to get a Taurox now, if only so I can refer to it on the tabletop as the 'van of death', with the special rule that every model embarking or disembarking has to take a dangerous terrain test.

 Sim-Life wrote:
GW have acknowleged in the past that Marines are underpowered compared to fluff.

Where?

 Sim-Life wrote:
They actually wrote up rules for more True To Fluff rules in an old Chapter Approved and called them Movie Marines.
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Chapter_Approved/Movie_Marines

What in MOVIE marine don't you understand? Do you actually believe that Silvester Stallone could beat a whole army by himself?

People who get angry when they're super mega cannon doesn't play my army off the table turn 1.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
GW have acknowleged in the past that Marines are underpowered compared to fluff.

Where?

 Sim-Life wrote:
They actually wrote up rules for more True To Fluff rules in an old Chapter Approved and called them Movie Marines.
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Chapter_Approved/Movie_Marines

What in MOVIE marine don't you understand? Do you actually believe that Silvester Stallone could beat a whole army by himself?

Jesus Christ, calm down lad.

People on the internet bug me most.

 NurglesR0T wrote:
Flamers being the go-to anti-air weapon in the 41st millennium

That is absurd, but really that stems from the inclusion of fighter type aircraft in a tactical game meant to be for infantry and tank type armies. Infantry and tanks simply don't slug it out with aircraft at all, they should be represented at command point expenditures for bombing runs and whatnot. You want an anti-aircraft stuff to counter that sure, but once you make them units on the board it's kinda hard sooner or later to not get things like taking out air superiority craft like Crimson Hunters with flamethrowers.

I would've thought you could add aircraft as fast skimmers. So they're acting as support but not flying around.

pm713 wrote:
I would've thought you could add aircraft as fast skimmers. So they're acting as support but not flying around.

Skimmers sure, but pretty sure what the OP was talking about were units that are definitely more F-16(Crimson Hunters, Ork Dakka Bombers) than hovercraft(Repulsor, Jetbikes). When you have specified traits like supersonic and hard to hit flier penalties I think they were going for actual aircraft, and those frankly don't fit all that well in a game meant to represent infantry/tank combat. But opinions will vary of course.

Gwarok wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I would've thought you could add aircraft as fast skimmers. So they're acting as support but not flying around.

Skimmers sure, but pretty sure what the OP was talking about were units that are definitely more F-16(Crimson Hunters, Ork Dakka Bombers) than hovercraft(Repulsor, Jetbikes). When you have specified traits like supersonic and hard to hit flier penalties I think they were going for actual aircraft, and those frankly don't fit all that well in a game meant to represent infantry/tank combat. But opinions will vary of course.

They don't but you just make them to have hovercraft rules. It would have been better without them but you can't just remove them now. It's not like GW actually care about things looking functional anyway.

Now that I think of it, lots of things irritate me that would be a snap to fix.

1) They don't have generic chapter masters anymore. If you want one and aren't playing a fleshed out chapter with its codex you're stuck with paying 3CP get that it. Seems like a simple +10pts or something on a Capt would get the job done. I'd love to have a Chapter Master in the back of an Iron Hands or Imperial Fist artillery battery, allowing the Whirlwinds and Thunder Cannons to reroll their shots as they very fluffily rain down a barrage of fire from miles away to break their enemies before the infantry assault, but I'm not paying 3CP to do it.

2) Space Marine transports only work for some given types of troops, like Primaris only in Repulsors and nothing else. Does any other race have that issue? No, all their transports can take all their units, the bigger ones just take up more space. There is a special transport for scouts, termies, and primaris, and Rhinos only work for scouts and regular marines. Seriously, wtf? It's like they went out of their way to over complicate things, maybe it's a fluff thing.

3) 1000 Space Marines per chapter, and they take a decade or longer to train, in a world where even they die like flies? Every single chapter would be good for one solid engagement then have to take a decade off to get back to fighting strength. And how the hell do the veterans have like 100+ years under their belt? No way any of them would last that long unless they were on guard duty back home the whole time. That's not even enough marines to properly staff the training center back home.

4) Battle Barges are like 7 miles long, with roughly the dimensions of a brick, yet can only transport 4 companies of marines? Lol, that's 400 guys in a volume of space you could literally fit every building of a multi million population city into. Even with the most lavish wastage of space on things like Cathedrals and High Gothic architecture, that's silly. Modern super amphibious craft are less than 1000ft long and can land a mechanized division. 400 men of even Space Marine stature standing in a 20x20 parade formation at the front of the ship would not be visible to the naked eye from an observer at the back of the ship, 7 miles away. That is how big a battle barge is.

As the man once said, I agreed to suspend my disbelief, not hang it from the neck until dead, but I have developed the skills to ignore these things in my affection for a pretty awesome game. I mean, I'll put up with a lot to get to shoot at space orks.

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
GW have acknowleged in the past that Marines are underpowered compared to fluff.

Where?

 Sim-Life wrote:
They actually wrote up rules for more True To Fluff rules in an old Chapter Approved and called them Movie Marines.
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Chapter_Approved/Movie_Marines

What in MOVIE marine don't you understand? Do you actually believe that Silvester Stallone could beat a whole army by himself?

Jesus Christ, calm down lad.

Wow, I second that...

Back to the topic, what bugs me the most is people who take a silly hobby and game entirely too serious.

One thing to note-a "dead" model may not actually be dead, just out of commission. While a Guardsmen that is slain probably represents someone who won't be going home to their family, a Marine removed from the tabletop might just need a day or two of rest and surgery.

"3) 1000 Space Marines per chapter, and they take a decade or longer to train, in a world where even they die like flies? Every single chapter would be good for one solid engagement then have to take a decade off to get back to fighting strength. And how the hell do the veterans have like 100+ years under their belt? No way any of them would last that long unless they were on guard duty back home the whole time. That's not even enough marines to properly staff the training center back home.

4) Battle Barges are like 7 miles long, with roughly the dimensions of a brick, yet can only transport 4 companies of marines? Lol, that's 400 guys in a volume of space you could literally fit every building of a multi million population city into. Even with the most lavish wastage of space on things like Cathedrals and High Gothic architecture, that's silly. Modern super amphibious craft are less than 1000ft long and can land a mechanized division. 400 men of even Space Marine stature standing in a 20x20 parade formation at the front of the ship would not be visible to the naked eye from an observer at the back of the ship, 7 miles away. That is how big a battle barge is.

As the man once said, I agreed to suspend my disbelief, not hang it from the neck until dead, but I have developed the skills to ignore these things in my affection for a pretty awesome game. I mean, I'll put up with a lot to get to shoot at space orks."

This, in spades. Especially the last. Although I find Gwarok's shabby treatment of misunderstood Space Orks somewhat disturbing

If the miniatures weren't so great, and the IDEA of the game wasn't so appealing, it would be tough to accept GW antics and rulesets.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
GW have acknowleged in the past that Marines are underpowered compared to fluff.

Where?

 Sim-Life wrote:
They actually wrote up rules for more True To Fluff rules in an old Chapter Approved and called them Movie Marines.
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Chapter_Approved/Movie_Marines

What in MOVIE marine don't you understand? Do you actually believe that Silvester Stallone could beat a whole army by himself?

Considering that most Black Library authors seem to treat marines as movie marines it is no wonder many people think that's how they should be. I guess I can add that to the list of 40K things that annoy me, BL hyperbole creeping in the studio fluff. Matt Ward is nothing compared to some of the BL stuff.

The Primaris statline does a great job of representing marines as feeling fitting to their fluff in comparison to most other units. It's the statline that should really be representing marines in all their forms, without distinction.

There's the problem of them not being particularly good, but the foundation is there, it just needs some development.

 Fafnir wrote:
The Primaris statline does a great job of representing marines as feeling fitting to their fluff in comparison to most other units. It's the statline that should really be representing marines in all their forms, without distinction.

There's the problem of them not being particularly good, but the foundation is there, it just needs some development.

Then there's the problem of buffing other units around them.

What's really beginning to bug me, is the lack of support for Imperial Guard/DKoK from Forgeworld lately. FW really need to update their lists soon, it's been 3/4 of a year now since the IA: Index came out. I know and understand things fell apart a bit with the tragic and unexpected death of writer Alan Bligh, but surely someone else could take over after him?

The some times very salty community in the internet.
A bit the "the sky is falling" attitude that some people have here.
Very unbalaced units.

painting 120 gants ^^ but i do it voluntary so its my own fault ^^

 Zingraff wrote:
What's really beginning to bug me, is the lack of support for Imperial Guard/DKoK from Forgeworld lately. FW really need to update their lists soon, it's been 3/4 of a year now since the IA: Index came out. I know and understand things fell apart a bit with the tragic and unexpected death of writer Alan Bligh, but surely someone else could take over after him?

this is the case for all factions or did i miss something?

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Yeah, I have to admit I own a Godhammer and Crusader, both with the sponsons on the back mount. Chalk it up to them being assembled back when they first came out, and I was young, eager, and dumb. Not to mention the setup is plastered all over official GW models.

What's the difference anyway? The turret swivels 180 degrees. The gun can shoot across the door regardless of where you put it.

 corpuschain wrote:

Cheeslord wrote:

 corpuschain wrote:


The Taurox is my pet hate, for the same reason. The guns, by default, are mounted behind the doors, which open 'normally', so you have protection from enemy fire as you get out, but you will be obliterated by the guns on your own vehicle. Anyone who takes the risk of riding in a Taurox in the 41st millenium is totally badass.

You could always ... take your finger off the "Fire" button when dudes are getting into or out of the van... maybe you could even have a warning sign on it.
Unless its conscripts, because the bullet might go through them and still hit the enemy...

(of course trying to re-embark in the middle of a firefight while the crew is distracted by shooting the enemy and might not notice you approaching might be chancy)

I suppose the simplest thing to do would be to link the door handle to the firing mechanism, so when you turn it, the gun is disabled. They only re-enable once the door is closed.
I'm sort of tempted to get a Taurox now, if only so I can refer to it on the tabletop as the 'van of death', with the special rule that every model embarking or disembarking has to take a dangerous terrain test.

I've never seen a player run taurox that didn't have the autocannons in the turret. Only in the GW books are they mounted on the chassis.

 Mmmpi wrote:

 corpuschain wrote:

Cheeslord wrote:

 corpuschain wrote:


The Taurox is my pet hate, for the same reason. The guns, by default, are mounted behind the doors, which open 'normally', so you have protection from enemy fire as you get out, but you will be obliterated by the guns on your own vehicle. Anyone who takes the risk of riding in a Taurox in the 41st millenium is totally badass.

You could always ... take your finger off the "Fire" button when dudes are getting into or out of the van... maybe you could even have a warning sign on it.
Unless its conscripts, because the bullet might go through them and still hit the enemy...

(of course trying to re-embark in the middle of a firefight while the crew is distracted by shooting the enemy and might not notice you approaching might be chancy)

I suppose the simplest thing to do would be to link the door handle to the firing mechanism, so when you turn it, the gun is disabled. They only re-enable once the door is closed.
I'm sort of tempted to get a Taurox now, if only so I can refer to it on the tabletop as the 'van of death', with the special rule that every model embarking or disembarking has to take a dangerous terrain test.

I've never seen a player run taurox that didn't have the autocannons in the turret. Only in the GW books are they mounted on the chassis.

You don't know about the BEST Taurox in the game then. The Taurox Prime w/ Gatling Cannon.