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I've recently started using the Vindicator, and I'm relatively happy with it. Sure it's not going to blow up entire units on its' own (no matter how much I wish it to be so) but it can put some hurt down on elite units with its' high strength shots, and firing on the move with it isn't terrible due to the new heavy weapon rules.

Just pray you roll more than 1 shot (which is what I usually roll)

The cost isn't to prohibitive & I love the look. I tend to like a fluffy ay so I like to squeeze one in. Rule of Cool.

The fact that it's Heavy D3 sucks, because random shots and -1 leads to a few turns per game where it totally whiffs in the shooting phase...

However, if you use its T8 body to screen your advancing characters (as I've been doing the past few games) it actually has a purpose in your army other than advancing forward, shooting a few times, and getting blown up.

As with most units in the game, it's all in how you use it.

If it had a rule that allowed it to move and shoot without penalty, it would instantly be much better.

 Crimson wrote:
If it had a rule that allowed it to move and shoot without penalty, it would instantly be much better.

Ocassionaly I'm willing to spend the cp for just that...at least when I run a brigade.

I think without that bombardment stratagem, Vindicators are truly trash.

If firing at anything T6+ Sv3+ if it moves itself into position (which mote than likely it needs to, as it's only 24", as well as not ignoring LoS), the chance of a Vindicator putting 2W or more on the target is LESS THAN 45%!!!! (WTH!!!!) If that monster have any decent inv saves, the result would just been even more ugly.

How about firing at hordes? The answer is it won't be better. That big cannon have only around 50% chances to kill 2 or more Guardsmen / Guants / Eldar foot soliders!!! Firing at genestealer hordes or Tzaangors (both have 5++)? Well your opponent is more than likely just lol as he only take away ONE model!!! (WTH!!!!)

If use the stratagem, you are looking atore than 55% chances to inflict at least 6 mortal wounds. Which is better than 3 Vindicators firing together at both of the above scenarios!!!! And also, RAW it doesn't matter if you advanced, pop smoke (which will increase your survivability) or even if you just retreated from enemy assault units. The only thing enemy can stop this is kill one of that T8 Sv3+ 11W model. I admit it is not very hard to achieve, but it doesn't looks "that kind of easy".

So I think if you take Vindicator, it ought to be 3, and better, taken them as Ultramarines, for the chance to regenerate CP, oh yes, Sergeant Chronus as well, he repair 1W of his tank every turn so he can sustain a little longer so as to allow your Techmarine (I assume you take it because, so many tanks) to repair other two tanks.

 Crimson wrote:
If it had a rule that allowed it to move and shoot without penalty, it would instantly be much better.

This and give the cannon D6 shots all the time. problem solved.

Alternatively give it a rule similar to LRBT. Move less than half movement and can fire twice, ignoring hit penalties.

 NurglesR0T wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
If it had a rule that allowed it to move and shoot without penalty, it would instantly be much better.

This and give the cannon D6 shots all the time. problem solved.

Alternatively give it a rule similar to LRBT. Move less than half movement and can fire twice, ignoring hit penalties.

The problem is that rule doesn't actually help the LR Demolisher, so it wouldn't help the vindicator. It's not like there's a version of the Demolisher Cannon with that rule and it still sucks...

It doesn't help the LR Demolisher because the other LR variants are better. Space Marines don't have that sort of variety and rely on the Vindicator for Demolisher Cannon access.

A bit of minor necromancy here...

Linebreaker is not affected by minuses to hit, LOS, or crucially, being in CC. So shoving them in your opponent's face means they don't have the usual downside either, in that they can 'fire' whilst in CC.

3d3 Mortal wounds is a fair whack, so I think in a low-drop army, where you have a good chance of going first, this might be fairly decent...

 grouchoben wrote:
A bit of minor necromancy here...

Linebreaker is not affected by minuses to hit, LOS, or crucially, being in CC. So shoving them in your opponent's face means they don't have the usual downside either, in that they can 'fire' whilst in CC.

3d3 Mortal wounds is a fair whack, so I think in a low-drop army, where you have a good chance of going first, this might be fairly decent...

In most situations, you might prefer the D6, but when facing things with ridiculously high Invulns like Guilliman, Mortal Wounds are basically your only option.

 vaklor4 wrote:

 grouchoben wrote:
A bit of minor necromancy here...

Linebreaker is not affected by minuses to hit, LOS, or crucially, being in CC. So shoving them in your opponent's face means they don't have the usual downside either, in that they can 'fire' whilst in CC.

3d3 Mortal wounds is a fair whack, so I think in a low-drop army, where you have a good chance of going first, this might be fairly decent...

In most situations, you might prefer the D6, but when facing things with ridiculously high Invulns like Guilliman, Mortal Wounds are basically your only option.

Or a cluster of mortars teams. It would be oh so much fun to use on spammy IG.

I think I'll proxy 3 Vindis in my next game to see how they work out. 375 isn't much more than a Repulsor, so I should be able to make space in my lists for them!

 grouchoben wrote:
I think I'll proxy 3 Vindis in my next game to see how they work out. 375 isn't much more than a Repulsor, so I should be able to make space in my lists for them!

More converts for the Vindicator throne! Report back when you get a chance!

 vaklor4 wrote:
In most situations, you might prefer the D6, but when facing things with ridiculously high Invulns like Guilliman, Mortal Wounds are basically your only option.

Exactly - Marines are a bit short on dealing with high-invuln targets, unless they can get a Libby casting on an 8 within 6" of the target - that's a very restrictive condition, compared to say death hex or jinx. We need a mortal wound engine, and Linebreaker's 3D3 certainly looks the part. I'm thinking of running them with some other tasty big targets, which might buy those targets a round in which to do something. They also come in at a good price to fill out that rare beast, the SM Brigade...


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Oh, and will do Daedalus!