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Did it go away? Still playing, using and buying minis and the setting over here.

If you need support, you need to consider how you approach your hobby

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Did it go away? Still playing, using and buying minis and the setting over here.

If you need support, you need to consider how you approach your hobby

Unless you need opponents....

I prefer 6/10mm myself, but if they decided to return WHFB in 28mm I still think they should take some notes from KoW.

Make friends, join a club. Necromunda and Blood Bowl survived, Inq28 survives to this day, as does Mordheim. If you wanted PUGs of WHFB in your local store, you were probably doing it wrong.

As for them bringing back the setting - sure. In Warmaster, a re-release of Mordheim, Man'O'War. Yep.

Re-releasing WHFB would not work, it would in fact be a huge mistake and a waste of resources that will make them more money doing other things.

What all of the people who simply say "it's money on the table" and associated comments fail to realise or recognise -either through a lack of understanding or being deliberately obtuse is that employees - people - can be used for things that are worth their time or less of their time.

For those people who are or have been employed, think about it in terms of the best use of your time while you're at work. if you're not working as a cleaner (which is fine) then the best use of your time is probably not vacuuming the floor or cleaning the toilets.

For those people who have "skilled" work, then think of the best use of their time. Someone who's job it is to keep the IT running might not be best spending time doing the photocopying.

So what I'm getting at here is that rules writers are a resource. Is their limited time best used for AoS/40k content, new boxed games, or a visit to the past of WHFB? Which of those products is going to be able to be supported by GW's retail stores (limited space!), web presence or production capability?

As for "hire more rules writers" - God knows that GW's books are filled with things that need FAQ and errata-ing as it is. So simply hiring more "unskilled" people is probably not the best solution. Hiring skilled people to work on staff can't always work if they don't want to relocate to Nottingham. Here's a video where a guy who was great at breaking down a video game explains why he didn't want to relocate for an offered job. https://youtu.be/KojFKQPpVIg feth, I've been offered work that would have required me to move to a different city. Didn't take it. My family & friends are here, so... nope.

On top of that, with the current renaissance of tabletop games across the board along with Kickstarter, lots of quality designers are ...pretty busy right now. James Hewlett went from Mantic to GW to independent and still able to work for both pretty bloody quickly.

Now, I personally don't enjoy, like or care about the AoS background. I also stopped playing WHF when 5th edition Herohammer took the game away from being troop-focused and into a weird game of Superhero-character "Timmy Smash Toys Together!" (see what I did there?).
ahem.

So I don't give two gaks about the AoS background, and WHFB's rules went to gak years ago. My solution? Play a better ruleset (KoW for me), but you're welcome to continue playing 8th, or T9A and also dabble in AoS, but with my own head-canon take on it, where gak just gets shoehorned into The Old World, just the same as GW would do whenever a new Warhammer Armies came out. Fyreslayers? Yeah, a more rabid sub-cult of the regular Slayer cult, found deeper in the Eastern World's Edge Mountains. Kharadon Overlords? Another semi-isolationist Dwarf culture from the Northern World's Edge Mountains who has just made contact. Who are the Idoneth Deepkin? They're what the Sea Elves became. Stormcast? Aloof heroes from beyond through a portal - just like Chaos, only Sigmar-ish (but can they really be trusted?). Yeah, it's easy to have those alongside my Old World armies, and the fluff is just the same kind of melange that it's always been, except the new additions are Flying Sharks and Magmadroths and Airships instead of the Bloodwrack Shrine and Mortis Engine and ...Gyrocopters.

Legacy models could work through some sort of time-hole portal, but they've kept most models available (excepting Bretts and TK, but I guess they were the lowest rungs and had to clear them to fit in newer models - sucks as I never got all the models from either range that I wanted, but it's not all about my own personal desires.)

I don't think it would hurt too much for them to keep the digital rules available via Black Library alongside the iTunes store as another poster noted, along with a caveat that this game is no longer supported, so do not expect FAQs etc. Printed rulebook aren't a simple matter, nor would a giant physical omnibus, so they're (once again) not a realistic proposition.

Novels? Basically treated as tie-in merch, so they would work if they had an active Warmaster/Manowar/Mordheim property. Notsomuch for a game that's no longer supported.


Ultimately, WHFB the rank'n'flank isn't coming back. It's too hard and expensive to get into with GW's pricing model. If you like it, grab one of the many editions of the many books floating around in swap shops or eBay or acquire the rules through other means online. It's all out there still, along with many of the original models, lots of 3rd-party proxies, along with the secondhand market. If you want a living ruleset, try T9A or KoW. But WHFB isn't returning, and all the internet grousing in the world is just screaming into the wind and a waste of your time, outside of the enjoyment gleaned from arguing with people on the internet or the enjoyment gleaned from an echo chamber.

The Old World setting, though? Yeah. There's still a lot to mine there outside of the unwieldy, huge beast of WHFB. I do think we'll see them dip in and out of it in a more limited manner. Probably starting with a new Mordheim within a few years.

dyndraig wrote:

Spoiler:

 StygianBeach wrote:

dyndraig wrote:

njtrader wrote:
Gw ought to simply redux back to 5th edition and fix the issues with those old army books. Or 7th. Either way, AOS is alright. KOW is not a good stand in, and T9A changes rules too often.

Disagree, If they bring back WHFB they should really take some inspiration from KoW. If they want a RnF game, make it a RnF game, rather then some skirmish game in RnF clothing.

Only in 15mm or less.

I hate watching KoW in 28+mm, it just feels too close to the action when everything is so abstacted out.

I prefer 6/10mm myself, but if they decided to return WHFB in 28mm I still think they should take some notes from KoW.

Can GW out-KoW KoW?

No way. They have warmaster if they want to follow that route. T9A is a better mirror for GW style of rules writing.

What Azazelx said.

With the added note that the Warhammer setting, or a slightly demented version of it, is still being published actively by GW. Blood Bowl is set in The Comedy Old World, not the Realms.

Virtually every tie-in GW has going on non 40k or 30k stuff is based in the Old World - Vermintide, Total War, etc. WFRP is just about to be re-released. The Old World isn't dead.

And GW can't afford it to be. A lot of the AoS lore doesn't make any sense without the Old World. It's not like 40k, where they came up with that setting first, threw in a reference to The Horus Heresy in a two paragraph boxout in Rogue Trader and then worked stuff backwards towards the Heresy later. AoS is built directly on the foundations of the Old World, and in many cases by the same guys - Sigmar, Nagash etc.

GW is going to have to keep the Old World rumbling in the background otherwise AoS has no base.

Oh, and total agreement with "bring in Warmaster, put all the Warhammer rulebooks on the webstore with a big WE DON'T SUPPORT THIS ANYMORE label" and call 8th edition done. It's cheap and there's no fundamental reason NOT to do that.

 jonolikespie wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Did it go away? Still playing, using and buying minis and the setting over here.

If you need support, you need to consider how you approach your hobby

Unless you need opponents....

Opponents are easy to find - get active in your local club.

 Graphite wrote:
What Azazelx said.

With the added note that the Warhammer setting, or a slightly demented version of it, is still being published actively by GW. Blood Bowl is set in The Comedy Old World, not the Realms.

Virtually every tie-in GW has going on non 40k or 30k stuff is based in the Old World - Vermintide, Total War, etc. WFRP is just about to be re-released. The Old World isn't dead.

And GW can't afford it to be. A lot of the AoS lore doesn't make any sense without the Old World. It's not like 40k, where they came up with that setting first, threw in a reference to The Horus Heresy in a two paragraph boxout in Rogue Trader and then worked stuff backwards towards the Heresy later. AoS is built directly on the foundations of the Old World, and in many cases by the same guys - Sigmar, Nagash etc.

GW is going to have to keep the Old World rumbling in the background otherwise AoS has no base.

Oh, and total agreement with "bring in Warmaster, put all the Warhammer rulebooks on the webstore with a big WE DON'T SUPPORT THIS ANYMORE label" and call 8th edition done. It's cheap and there's no fundamental reason NOT to do that.

They probably dont sell the physical book anymore because they dont want to pay to have a low moving product printed.

Most people who want to play rank and flank probably still own a 8th or earlier book. If not, they can be gotten in the istore, i dont know about android. Warhammer: Rulebook is what you want if anyone is curious.

Yeah. When I said Black Library. I meant BL Digital, so my bad there. Your rationale is exactly right. (Plus space for physical inventory vs digital).

Graphite is also correct with regard to Blood Bowl and the new edition of WFRP which I thought of then forgot while doing my messy stream-of-consciousness post.

I should probably write up the above properly and much more eloquently one day so I can just copypasta it in when these arguments crop up again and again.

I would like it if they brought it back even with AOS tiles I just want bretonnians back!

Yes but any Brettonian player is really just a budding historicals fan, that doesn't know it yet

Nope.

Game Mechanics aside, The Mortal Realms is a far richer seam of potential story telling.

The Old World was highly constrained, the nation states far too well established to upset unless you went the whole hog (and they did, and I respect those that disagree with the decision).

The Empire was always the bulwark - you can’t have Bretonnia seize land for long, and vice versa.

My only wish is that The Border Princes, the most malleable area of The Old World had been explored better.

But given the technological limitations, it got difficult explaining exactly why Lizardmen were having a Dust Up with Ogres, in The Old World. Or why a group of Wood Elves has left Athel Loren to go feth up something in Naggaroth.

Yes, I want the old, seemingly defunct armies back. I don’t like to see anyone’s collection negated even though I don’t collect them. But all I can say is give it time. Outside The Old World, the Mortal Realms have far more flexibility to include Bretonnianesque Chivalric Orders - perhaps its Morathi or Neferata manipulating from afar, and occasionally sending visions to the Faithful/Deluded (or even Alarielle...). But for me, an eternal crusade across all the Mortal Realms with squires and Knights Errant being recruited from the best candidates as they travel the Realms is far more interesting in terms of potential (if not execution) than a country somehow immune to the advent of Black Powder Weapons, despite the very same rendering expensive plate armour pretty much pointless in genuine history.

Nope and I'd wish people would stop asking for it.

Right now WFB have it better than we have ever had before. If you like WFB there is so many ways to buy the minis and get the rulebooks, usually for way under the cost.

If people keep moaning about changing AoS or wanting WFB, eventually GW will ruin AoS with more changes and it will become just another WFB clone.

There are so many games out there as well that fill in the rank and flank.

Trouble is, people in this hobby seem lazy as hell and are not willing to put anything more than the basic effort into it. No player base for WFB? Try asking people to play. Rulebook not available directly from GW- try the trade groups or ebay.

People just want the game handed to them. Most 'dead' games have a fantastic player base still, they just required a little effort to keep going. Epic for example has remained huge- huge enough to keep tormentor scene alive, new army lists and several very popular proxy lines of minis. WFB fans could have done the same.


As for the fluff- AoS is huge and empty so you can make the game what you want it to- stop asking for GW to spoonfeeed you everything. If you want to play in a more old world setting- create a city of your own, surrounded by spooky forests and skaven in the sewers. Don't like the idea of lizardmen being non corporeal imagination angels? Create your own tribe of creatures that inhabit the realms.

WFB had thirty long years and that fluff hasn't gone anywhere and It got a good send off. But it had to go. TV shows don't last as long as it did and most TV shows outstay their welcome. AoS lets some of the best parts of the fluff be reused/returned but with out knocking out the same old tripe year after year. We are getting something new, interesting and way more original.