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Made in gb
Instigating Incubi




The dark behind the eyes.

Lammia wrote:
Force Weapons outright slaying models...

...

...I think...


You mean before every character and his dog was given Eternal Warrior?

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

 vipoid wrote:
Lammia wrote:
Force Weapons outright slaying models...

...

...I think...


You mean before every character and his dog was given Eternal Warrior?

Hey, only the Space Marines got that! And relics which gave Eternal Warrior!
If you weren't a Space Marine then your special characters and HQs had little to no access to it.

Worst offender for that kind of thing was the relic storm shield from the space marine codex. Gave eternal warrior and a 3++ invulnerable save. And it cost a similar amount to the Tau Shield Generator battlesuit system which only gave a 4++ save and no eternal warrior.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/14 11:43:45


The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in us
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
Lammia wrote:
Force Weapons outright slaying models...

...

...I think...


You mean before every character and his dog was given Eternal Warrior?

Hey, only the Space Marines got that! And relics which gave Eternal Warrior!
If you weren't a Space Marine then your special characters and HQs had little to no access to it.

Worst offender for that kind of thing was the relic storm shield from the space marine codex. Gave eternal warrior and a 3++ invulnerable save. And it cost a similar amount to the Tau Shield Generator battlesuit system which only gave a 4++ save and no eternal warrior.


yea... I hated all of the.. well guess all my ork characters other than Ghaz get to be slain by some no name marine psycher. apparently Wazdakka can race his bike and ramp it into the head of a titan and take it down... but put him against a librarian and we have our limit.

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Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived




On moon miranda.

The most ironic thing about Force Weapons was that originally they were anti-daemon weapons that daemons got no save against, eventually they turned into armor-save ignoring weapons that inflicted Instant Death...at a time when Daemons generally all had invulnerable saves only and all had Eternal Warrior, making Force Weapons no more effective against daemons than a rifle butt or boot knife

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

Heavy Gear Painting Log, Northern Guard, Southern Republican Army, and Terrain
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in fr
Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot






I do not miss old force weapons.

My Azrael, supreme grand master of dark angels and all successors has just been one shot by a single failed wound roll by a grey knight troop choice. :/.....fun.

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Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike





I miss disembarking from open topped vehicles and landraiders after moving

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/14 15:51:35


 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




I miss some of but not all of 2nd Ed.


Speed modifiers meant fast units used speed as protection (Eldar and genestealers were at-1 to hit if they ran).

Close combat was clunky but not as lethal as every one remembers. 3rd + saw more unit slaughter from a single character. Although it was technically possible, 2nd Ed in practice saw most characters outclassed by outnumbering that ended in stalemate. After the 3rd or 4th mook, your character was usually losing the contest. Only calgar could slaughter his way through because he ignored the outnumbering bonus.







   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

I miss the days when my Broadside railguns weren't weaker than the lascannon a space marine can carry on his shoulder, despite being over twice the size. The days when they were terrifying tank killers who could kill a land raider with a single well placed shot, rather than their current status of drowning enemies in missiles.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/02/14 16:23:12


The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in us
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






 A Town Called Malus wrote:
I miss the days when my Broadside railguns weren't weaker than the lascannon a space marine can carry on his shoulder, despite being over twice the size. The days when they were terrifying tank killers who could kill a land raider with a single well placed shot, rather than their current status of drowning enemies in missiles.


Oh god, right. Theyre S8 now, yeah?

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

 Insectum7 wrote:
 A Town Called Malus wrote:
I miss the days when my Broadside railguns weren't weaker than the lascannon a space marine can carry on his shoulder, despite being over twice the size. The days when they were terrifying tank killers who could kill a land raider with a single well placed shot, rather than their current status of drowning enemies in missiles.


Oh god, right. Theyre S8 now, yeah?


Eeyup.

Stupidest change from the 4th to 6th ed codex. I get that barely anyone took Hammerheads with the 4th edition codex (because you could take multiple Broadsides whose guns were just as strong against single targets but were also twin linked and so more accurate for a similar cost as a kitted out Hammerhead) but the answer to that would have been to make the Hammerhead better by making it more accurate and more reliable at penetrating armour (such as making it an Ordnance weapon so it would roll 2D6 and pick highest for armour penetration rolls). Also, the Hammerhead had the submunition round which made it excellent against infantry with a S6 AP4 pie plate. That saved my skin against Necrons several times in 5th/early pre-codex 6th.

Alternatively GW had its new Broadside kits to sell and knew everyone who played already had railsides and so made them crap to shift the new kit for people who now needed missile pods.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/02/14 16:36:07


The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in us
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






^Ugh. That's so dumb.

Man, those S10 AP1 Railcannons were effing terrifying back in 3rd and 4th. I guess 5th too, but the vehicle damage chart changed and made them a little tougher.

Speaking of 3rd and 4th. I miss the Monolith of those days. The superheavy before superheavies.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





The old broadsides also just looked better. The new ones carrying their guns like rifles just look stupid.

Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
The old broadsides also just looked better. The new ones carrying their guns like rifles just look stupid.


I like the newer rail guns personally, but its kind of moot since nobody would bother to take a glorified expensive single profile space marine missile launcher.

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Made in gb
Instigating Incubi




The dark behind the eyes.

 Vaktathi wrote:
The most ironic thing about Force Weapons was that originally they were anti-daemon weapons that daemons got no save against, eventually they turned into armor-save ignoring weapons that inflicted Instant Death...at a time when Daemons generally all had invulnerable saves only and all had Eternal Warrior, making Force Weapons no more effective against daemons than a rifle butt or boot knife


I remember thinking back in 5e that GKs seemed better equipped to be an anti-Tyranid army than an anti-Daemon army.

As you say, Daemons all had invulnerable saves and eternal warrior. The same couldn't be said for Tyranids. What's more, with the introduction of Halberds that granted +2I, GKs could strike as fast as Genestealers, removing even the initiative advantage Tyranids might have otherwise possessed.

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




I miss the days when GW would define a rule (e.g. Deep Strike, Feel No Pain) and then just use that for all codices.

I also miss rerolls being sacred, being rewarded for getting to the side/behind a vehicle, and most of all proper weapon skill. A Guardsman does not hit Khan as easily as he hits his Guardsman mate!
   
Made in dk
Stormin' Stompa





There isn't much I get nostalgic about from Rogue Trader....
But 2nd Edition? Oh, man.

Weapons with Guess range.
Persistent smoke clouds, that moved randomly each turn.
Datafaxes.

-------------------------------------------------------
"He died because he had no honor. He had no honor and the Emperor was watching."

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Made in ca
Been Around the Block




I miss being able to take bionics on all my guardsmen sergents and then proceed to roll 6's and get them back up. Having 3 lone sergents running round the table was a hoot!

I miss, and probably always will miss, terrain height. I like the +1 to armour that cover gives in 8th edition, but I feel GeeDubs could have done more with cover. Some terrain could give -1 to hit. If this was the case then I might be able to like the all LOS everywhere.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
I miss the days when my Broadside railguns weren't weaker than the lascannon a space marine can carry on his shoulder, despite being over twice the size. The days when they were terrifying tank killers who could kill a land raider with a single well placed shot, rather than their current status of drowning enemies in missiles.


I miss this too. Was VERY annoyed to see them reduced to less than a lascannon.


#1 thing I miss the most?
Jump/shoot/jump with Tau jetpacks.
Bad Balistic skill was tolerable when we had this.
   
Made in us
Manhunter





Huntsville, Texas

I miss when I found 40k fun...
   
Made in ie
Regular Dakkanaut




Ireland

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
I miss when I found 40k fun...


This!
I think we can safely close this thread now.

8th is the edition that made me give up on 40k, I've been playing since the start of 2nd edition. Seeing what GW and 40K have morphed into is honestly quite upsetting. Reading this thread and remembering all the previous editions made me sad at just how lackluster and corporate the current 40K is.

RIP 40k... you were a fun game, that gave players years of enjoyment and laughter.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/17 13:44:54


The objective of the game is to win. The point of the game is to have fun. The two should never be confused. 
   
Made in jp
Bush? No, Eldar Ranger





Mihara, Japan

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
I miss when I found 40k fun...


Yeah, I feel you. I'd love to play some good old school 40k. But noone at the club I'm at wants to play anything but 8th ed.

The only thing better than a good nights sleep, is two good nights sleep. 
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





 jobalisk wrote:
 NH Gunsmith wrote:
I miss when I found 40k fun...


Yeah, I feel you. I'd love to play some good old school 40k. But noone at the club I'm at wants to play anything but 8th ed.


Honestly, 8e is pretty good I think.

For the things I miss, there's a lot more that I don't. And 8e in general is pretty streamlined, not-arcane, and reasonably well balanced [at least was until C:SM 2.0 came out]

Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Insectum7 wrote:
^Ugh. That's so dumb.

Man, those S10 AP1 Railcannons were effing terrifying back in 3rd and 4th. I guess 5th too, but the vehicle damage chart changed and made them a little tougher.

Speaking of 3rd and 4th. I miss the Monolith of those days. The superheavy before superheavies.


I mean....they're AP4 and can cause mortal wounds and have two shots. So calling them worse than lascannons is a bit of a stretch.

   
Made in fr
Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot






 jobalisk wrote:
 NH Gunsmith wrote:
I miss when I found 40k fun...


Yeah, I feel you. I'd love to play some good old school 40k. But noone at the club I'm at wants to play anything but 8th ed.


Because 8e is actually fun.

I made this thread to highlight some lovely old times. But it did what I hoped it would. Brought out conversations.

Conversations about things that made people love the hobby.

Conversations about the horrors of things that have been and changed.

The game is ever changing, if you don't like it as it is now just read through this thread and see how much has changed. Chances are it will change again, so people don't need to moan relentlessly. If you don't like game in it's current state, shelf your army and wait. Or learn to enjoy what it currently is and look forward to what changes it brings in future.

That being said, I do miss the days when you could combat hop with combat armies. I went through about 4/5 lists all getting mephisted because mephiston could combat hop destroy me, it was fun learning to counter that.

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Made in be
Waaagh! Warbiker





Lier, Belgium

For me, as stated before, i do miss the blast templates and scatter dice, armor facing and fire arks of vehicle weapons.
But the things i miss most is the -to hit modifier you used to get when shooting through other squads (friend and foe) to shoot at some guys knee, and the time before CP and reroll stratagem. I do find stratas fun as it extends your tactical options, but i do enjoy the game more when both sides have burned all their CP, and a diceroll's result is more definitive. There's a lot more tension about crucial rolls that way.

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hive fleet belphegor 3500 points
1k sons killteam

Dakka is the ork word for shooting, but the ork concept of shooting is saturation fire. Just as there is no such thing as a "miss" in a target-rich environment, there is no such thing as a "dodge" in a bullet rich one

 
   
Made in us
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
^Ugh. That's so dumb.

Man, those S10 AP1 Railcannons were effing terrifying back in 3rd and 4th. I guess 5th too, but the vehicle damage chart changed and made them a little tougher.

Speaking of 3rd and 4th. I miss the Monolith of those days. The superheavy before superheavies.


I mean....they're AP4 and can cause mortal wounds and have two shots. So calling them worse than lascannons is a bit of a stretch.


A: I don't think I did.

B: There's two shots because there's two of them. It's like a twin linked Lascannon. So each Railgun is S8 AP-4 D6D, 6+ to wound does a Mortal. Which is. . . comparable to a Lascannon. I thikn I'd rather have S9 than an additonal AP and a potential mortal. (Also, marine Lascannons can be -4 now because of Doctrines)
But the original was outright superior at S10 AP1 72" range vs. S9 AP2 48" range. Even more superior because of how armor-pen and/or damage tables worked, depending on edition.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/02/18 18:13:58


And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





 wallygator wrote:
For me, as stated before, i do miss the blast templates and scatter dice, armor facing and fire arks of vehicle weapons.
But the things i miss most is the -to hit modifier you used to get when shooting through other squads (friend and foe) to shoot at some guys knee, and the time before CP and reroll stratagem. I do find stratas fun as it extends your tactical options, but i do enjoy the game more when both sides have burned all their CP, and a diceroll's result is more definitive. There's a lot more tension about crucial rolls that way.


You know, I also kind of feel this. Once you get to turn 3, when you've each got like 2-3CP left and you're looking to just squeeze the maximum out of the few stratagems you have left, is honestly the most fun part of the game to me now.

Turn 1-2, when 2/3 of either army just gets shoveled off the table, have become a bit mechanical.
   
Made in nl
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller






your mind

the_scotsman wrote:
 wallygator wrote:
For me, as stated before, i do miss the blast templates and scatter dice, armor facing and fire arks of vehicle weapons.
But the things i miss most is the -to hit modifier you used to get when shooting through other squads (friend and foe) to shoot at some guys knee, and the time before CP and reroll stratagem. I do find stratas fun as it extends your tactical options, but i do enjoy the game more when both sides have burned all their CP, and a diceroll's result is more definitive. There's a lot more tension about crucial rolls that way.


You know, I also kind of feel this. Once you get to turn 3, when you've each got like 2-3CP left and you're looking to just squeeze the maximum out of the few stratagems you have left, is honestly the most fun part of the game to me now.

Turn 1-2, when 2/3 of either army just gets shoveled off the table, have become a bit mechanical.


Meh, ... why not just get rid of the models entirely,
and play the card game instead?

2nd ed was a proper miniatures game.
3rd, 4th... valiant efforts.

Came back at the tail-end of 7th,
and bought the infamous Imperial Agents book for myself for my Birthday to celebrate.

Slavered all over the release of 8th, figuring we would see more continuity after GW puked blood all over WFB fans.

But, they decided to us instead.

Yeah, OK, there are some cool enough plastic models,
contrast paints have been fun (reminiscent to the old inks, anyone?)
and Sisters are OK for the most part,
but...
this guy nailed it here:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 stonehorse wrote:
 NH Gunsmith wrote:
I miss when I found 40k fun...


This!
I think we can safely close this thread now.

8th is the edition that made me give up on 40k, I've been playing since the start of 2nd edition. Seeing what GW and 40K have morphed into is honestly quite upsetting. Reading this thread and remembering all the previous editions made me sad at just how lackluster and corporate the current 40K is.

RIP 40k... you were a fun game, that gave players years of enjoyment and laughter.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/18 19:46:17


   
Made in us
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Imo 8th is pretty good, overall. I rate it behind 4th and 2nd, but it's pretty solid. I think it has really great foundations. Take away Stratagems and the SM supplements, then add in some terrain rules and you've got a great game.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in gb
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought




Nottingham

8th is my favourite edition, tied with 5th, if you don't take it too seriously.

I think a lot of stratagems could be pruned back, as above, and I'm not overly a fan of the SM supplements (I love the extra lore and successor stuff and the alternative relics and traits and powers, but I'm not a fan of all the "free" stuff), but generally speaking, it's fun to play.

Read the history of the Charadon Crusade: The Crusade of Fury was at an end.
Join the Crion Crusade: I think it's the combination of butt jokes, democratic necrons, explosions, and mind-fething that draws people to this Crusade like moths to a bug zapper - War Kitten
Rippy wrote:Never forgetti, template spaghetti.
DR:90S++G++MB+IPw40k07-D++A++/sWD366R++T(F)DM+ 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord






I was on board with 8th until the killiness just steadily went off the charts...making the game feel utterly pointless in too many cases. Haven't played in 5-6 months and don't see myself doing so again. It's all good though, I left after 3.5 and only came back in 8th, so I'll convert my armies back to 2nd ed. style or adopt other rules, etc.

 
   
 
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