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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I don't want it to come back and I think the FAQ / CA / quick errata approach is much better (in theory anyway), but I do sort of miss only needing one codex and the base rules to play my army and also knowing that if I got a garbage codex I could safely box up that army and ignore it until either a new codex or a new edition dropped.

   
Made in us
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






definitely miss force org charts being required.

on templates.. i hated them. i wouldn't mind if they had been used to determine which unit was hit by a number of shots, but they nerfed horder armies so much by being able to force one player to remove a ton of points and slowed down games as those players had to intricately space their units to be 2 inches exactly apart in competitive play to avoid being wiped out.

10000 points 7000
6000
5000
5000
2000
 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord






Everything about this:

Spoiler:

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/11 17:10:57


 
   
Made in gb
Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller




Watch Fortress Excalibris

Kev Adams' wonderfully characterful RT and 2nd edition era Ork models. The 3rd edition redesign by Brian Nelson eventually caused me to drop my Ork army completely. He just sucked all the humour and character out of them for me.

Likewise, RT and 2nd edition's lack of a FOC. I much preferred the list of units (some with 0-N restrictions for balance or more usually for fluff reasons) with % points value limits on characters and support/ally units to any of the various FOC systems we've had from 3rd onwards.

I also miss having some units, vehicles and wargear options be, essentially, a bonus for those willing to put in some work on the modelling side of the hobby and convert or even scratch-build them, rather than the current No Model No Rules malarkey. But nowadays, apparently, expecting people taking part in a model-based hobby to actually try to develop their modelling skills is 'gatekeeping'... (Yes, I have actually been accused of that for suggesting that it's OK for people to have to convert things in order to make use of every option in their codex.)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/11 17:52:05




"Everyone in 40K is wrong." - ADB

"Fiat justitia ruat caelum." - Kalas Enhoru, VIII Legion

Wishing for other people's armies/factions to be squatted should be a bannable offence. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Duskweaver wrote:
[snip]

Likewise, RT and 2nd edition's lack of a FOC. I much preferred the list of units (some with 0-N restrictions for balance or more usually for fluff reasons) with % points value limits on characters and support/ally units to any of the various FOC systems we've had from 3rd onwards.

[/snip]

That's a thing I could get behind bringing back.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



NE Ohio, USA

mrFickle wrote:
I miss all the funny dice, d3 through to d20. I don’t know why but when I was a kid I thought it was cool


So.... You're missing the wrong game.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





ccs wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
I miss all the funny dice, d3 through to d20. I don’t know why but when I was a kid I thought it was cool


So.... You're missing the wrong game.

2nd ed used at least d8 and d10 for armor penetration roles. d12 and d4 too iirc.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Having to bring an actual Platoon of Guardsmen as a troops choice. I miss it now as I never had the chance to play that way with a Guard army, and now having hundreds of Guardsmen.

The combined durability and fragility of vehicles. Terrifying if you didn't bring any anti-vehicle weapons, but at the same time having to be careful with yours if your opponent did.

One of my fondest memories of 5th Ed was using some Wolf Scouts to blow up a Rhino and finish the squad inside in melee. I don't quite think something like that is possible now.

I regret selling the bulk of my Space Wolf army; I could have at least run vanilla Space Marines for most of them.
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





Arcanis161 wrote:
Having to bring an actual Platoon of Guardsmen as a troops choice. I miss it now as I never had the chance to play that way with a Guard army, and now having hundreds of Guardsmen.

The combined durability and fragility of vehicles. Terrifying if you didn't bring any anti-vehicle weapons, but at the same time having to be careful with yours if your opponent did.

One of my fondest memories of 5th Ed was using some Wolf Scouts to blow up a Rhino and finish the squad inside in melee. I don't quite think something like that is possible now.

I regret selling the bulk of my Space Wolf army; I could have at least run vanilla Space Marines for most of them.


I mean, theoretically sure. But in older editions vehicles worked a lot more like they do in practical war - shots were much more likely to just bounce off, but those that got through have the chance of causing catastrophic failure in just a single shot.

Which leads to situations that are much more spectacular, but also much more frustrating as your highly expensive vehicle can just go kapow with sufficiently lucky rolling.

For every game where you get a cool, cinematic sequence of a vehicle getting a secondary weapon blown off, a track thrown, then the crew shaken by lower-strength fire, and then finally an anti-tank weapon delivering the killing shot and blowing it up, you get a game where one side's lascannons all roll "Shaken" results and one side's single shot rolls "Explode" right off the bat.

I run a lot of custom missions, and one of the ones I've tried in 8th was a titanfight mission, where everyone had a single super-heavy unit under their control. I introduced a system called "Consequences" where players could choose to mitigate damage by taking various consequences like weapon destroyed, mobility impaired, armor blown off, etc. If the defender chose to mitigate damage by taking consequences, the attacker could choose from the list what happened. It worked alright, I'm sure given more time to analyze the lists of consequences people would be able to power game them, but putting the consequences sort of semi in both players' hands led to it feeling fairly reasonable and felt like a decision point.
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





the_scotsman wrote:
Arcanis161 wrote:
Having to bring an actual Platoon of Guardsmen as a troops choice. I miss it now as I never had the chance to play that way with a Guard army, and now having hundreds of Guardsmen.

The combined durability and fragility of vehicles. Terrifying if you didn't bring any anti-vehicle weapons, but at the same time having to be careful with yours if your opponent did.

One of my fondest memories of 5th Ed was using some Wolf Scouts to blow up a Rhino and finish the squad inside in melee. I don't quite think something like that is possible now.

I regret selling the bulk of my Space Wolf army; I could have at least run vanilla Space Marines for most of them.


I mean, theoretically sure. But in older editions vehicles worked a lot more like they do in practical war - shots were much more likely to just bounce off, but those that got through have the chance of causing catastrophic failure in just a single shot.

Which leads to situations that are much more spectacular, but also much more frustrating as your highly expensive vehicle can just go kapow with sufficiently lucky rolling.

For every game where you get a cool, cinematic sequence of a vehicle getting a secondary weapon blown off, a track thrown, then the crew shaken by lower-strength fire, and then finally an anti-tank weapon delivering the killing shot and blowing it up, you get a game where one side's lascannons all roll "Shaken" results and one side's single shot rolls "Explode" right off the bat.

I run a lot of custom missions, and one of the ones I've tried in 8th was a titanfight mission, where everyone had a single super-heavy unit under their control. I introduced a system called "Consequences" where players could choose to mitigate damage by taking various consequences like weapon destroyed, mobility impaired, armor blown off, etc. If the defender chose to mitigate damage by taking consequences, the attacker could choose from the list what happened. It worked alright, I'm sure given more time to analyze the lists of consequences people would be able to power game them, but putting the consequences sort of semi in both players' hands led to it feeling fairly reasonable and felt like a decision point.


I prefer the old system of armor penetration. That's basically how tanks die, they're invulnerable to everything lesser until something big enough makes a hole in them and kills the crew, blows it up, or starts a fire and it's abandoned.

Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Blast and Flamer templates.

LOS blocking Area Terrain.

The days when a single shot with a Heavy Weapon had a non-zero chance of blowing up a vehicle outright.

Tactical Squad 370 points, Land Raider 220 points.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in au
Repentia Mistress





I miss vehicle facings and firing arcs. Also miss morale, it was satisfying to see an opponents unit run away.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Oooh, the old Overwatch system. Instead of just always getting to make the hit-on-six roll you had to forgo shooting on your turn to put the unit into Overwatch instead, and then you got to fire at a -1 to-hit in your opponent's turn when a unit moved if you had LoS during it's movement. That made for some interesting tactical decisions.

   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Macon, GA

I'm going to back the old combined arms force org chart. Obviously with the more streamlined modern game it needed an update, but I miss that things we now see as common or spammable (carnifex, Leman Russ, wraithlord) were huge, pivotal units. I also liked that armies looked, well, if not like armies, than at least like an actual detachment.

My Painted Armies
: Co. B, 37th Praetorian IG: 21,000pts
KOW Ogres: 4500 points
Loyalist Emperor's Children: 2500 points 
   
Made in gb
Instigating Incubi




The dark behind the eyes.

I'm on the fence with regard to templates.

On the one hand, I think it's fun to actually put them down (once everyone's finished arguing about the scatter dice as a result of parallax errors) and replacing them with d3s and d6s is just ugly design.

On the other hand, when you're using an army with a lot of infantry, it saves a lot of time when you can deploy and move them without trying to make sure that every man is at least 2" away from every other man.

What's more, especially in 6th/7th, Blast Weapons started to become increasingly ludicrous. Large Blasts seemed to proliferate, and we even started to see Apocalypse Blasts appearing on the table. Not only that, but we also saw the introduction of Torrent Flamers - Flamer Templates that lacked any of the normal restrictions and which usually boasted considerably better Strength and AP than even Heavy Flamers.

I recall trying an infantry-IG army in 7th, consisting primarily of 4 large Platoons. On turn 1, a pair of Dreadknights basically deleted a platoon each, with a combination of Large Blasts and Torrent Flamers. That was near enough half my army killed by just two models which weren't even particularly expensive.

In the end, I think the biggest issue with templates was simply GW doing what they always end up doing and simply taking them too far.


 Polonius wrote:
I'm going to back the old combined arms force org chart. Obviously with the more streamlined modern game it needed an update, but I miss that things we now see as common or spammable (carnifex, Leman Russ, wraithlord) were huge, pivotal units. I also liked that armies looked, well, if not like armies, than at least like an actual detachment.


I have to agree with this.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/11 22:37:38


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





 Polonius wrote:
I'm going to back the old combined arms force org chart. Obviously with the more streamlined modern game it needed an update, but I miss that things we now see as common or spammable (carnifex, Leman Russ, wraithlord) were huge, pivotal units. I also liked that armies looked, well, if not like armies, than at least like an actual detachment.


I like that Leman Russes are now common and main-line. It makes the game feel more battle-like, and not like an infantry skirmish.

OTOH, the new org charts have way too high of an HW requirement. It's kind of silly that a platoon of riflemen requires two or three company commanders to lead it.

I think reducing the base requirement and maximum permissible number of HQ's per formation would be the one most important change I would make to the detachment system. There are just too many characters and heroes in the game.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/11 22:48:47


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I miss when I could freely order from the UK.

   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
When tanks were basically proof against most firepower, and a Lascannon merely inconvenienced them..


I remember in Fifth edition an acquaintance of mine often brought 3 or 4, sometimes even 5 Leman Russ tanks and other armoured vehicles as part of his Imperial Guard list. Being that 40k rarely has all the options in the box, my one unit of Havocs with it's single Lascannon and Missile Launcher usually glanced one before being unceremoniously removed. I don't think I ever won a game in those days. I can say for sure, I do not miss those days.

What I did miss was what happened when Sixth came around. All my Daemon Princes and my Bloodthirster became substantially harder for him to kill, and what I do miss was watching his gak eating grin disappear when he realised Circus trumps Tank column. What was even better was the subsequent whining about a 'broken list' to which observers would reply "Well, you got what you deserved."

Working Men of All Countries, Unite!
 
   
Made in us
Mindless Spore Mine



Ohio

When I could field
my squat exo armor biker
3 multimelta trikes
20 bikers
With a fire base of a boatload of heavy weapons

Granted the bikes were the only mobile portion

Stupid 3" move

I bought squats. I want gyrocopters, and huge mortars.

Or Zoats, got a solid squad of them. 
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





 blood reaper wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
When tanks were basically proof against most firepower, and a Lascannon merely inconvenienced them..


I remember in Fifth edition an acquaintance of mine often brought 3 or 4, sometimes even 5 Leman Russ tanks and other armoured vehicles as part of his Imperial Guard list. Being that 40k rarely has all the options in the box, my one unit of Havocs with it's single Lascannon and Missile Launcher usually glanced one before being unceremoniously removed. I don't think I ever won a game in those days. I can say for sure, I do not miss those days.

What I did miss was what happened when Sixth came around. All my Daemon Princes and my Bloodthirster became substantially harder for him to kill, and what I do miss was watching his gak eating grin disappear when he realised Circus trumps Tank column. What was even better was the subsequent whining about a 'broken list' to which observers would reply "Well, you got what you deserved."


That's because your only AT weapon was a single lascannon. Meltaguns & Vanquishers & Railcannons were where it's at if you're not going to flank the tanks.

Removing tanks was very easy with a real tank gun. Those were the best days.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/11 23:56:22


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

OTOH, the new org charts have way too high of an HW requirement. It's kind of silly that a platoon of riflemen requires two or three company commanders to lead it.

I think reducing the base requirement and maximum permissible number of HQ's per formation would be the one most important change I would make to the detachment system. There are just too many characters and heroes in the game.


100% agree with this. I really dislike having to buy more characters than I want. Two Battalions of Space Marines shouldn't require four HQs


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
That's because IMO, if it's man-packed and shoulder-fired, it's a second-rate AT gun, and if you only have one you're not going far.

It's the same gun that's featured on the vehicles designed for killing tanks, Land Raiders and Predators. Future-gun, pew pew!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/11 23:55:15


And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





 Insectum7 wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

OTOH, the new org charts have way too high of an HW requirement. It's kind of silly that a platoon of riflemen requires two or three company commanders to lead it.

I think reducing the base requirement and maximum permissible number of HQ's per formation would be the one most important change I would make to the detachment system. There are just too many characters and heroes in the game.


100% agree with this. I really dislike having to buy more characters than I want. Two Battalions of Space Marines shouldn't require four HQs


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
That's because IMO, if it's man-packed and shoulder-fired, it's a second-rate AT gun, and if you only have one you're not going far.

It's the same gun that's featured on the vehicles designed for killing tanks, Land Raiders and Predators. Future-gun, pew pew!


I wouldn't really call it a powerful gun. A Predator carries 4 of them. That's like an Onto's battery of recoilless rifles. It works, but you really want to call in a real tank with a full on tank gun.

Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Spoiler:
 Insectum7 wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

OTOH, the new org charts have way too high of an HW requirement. It's kind of silly that a platoon of riflemen requires two or three company commanders to lead it.

I think reducing the base requirement and maximum permissible number of HQ's per formation would be the one most important change I would make to the detachment system. There are just too many characters and heroes in the game.


100% agree with this. I really dislike having to buy more characters than I want. Two Battalions of Space Marines shouldn't require four HQs


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
That's because IMO, if it's man-packed and shoulder-fired, it's a second-rate AT gun, and if you only have one you're not going far.

It's the same gun that's featured on the vehicles designed for killing tanks, Land Raiders and Predators. Future-gun, pew pew!


I wouldn't really call it a powerful gun. A Predator carries 4 of them. That's like an Onto's battery of recoilless rifles. It works, but you really want to call in a real tank with a full on tank gun.


I have a hard time thinking of a Land Raider as not-a-real-tank. I would observe that my start in 40K is in an edition where one-shotting a tank with an infantry-portable weapon was not uncommon.

I see the deployment of the Lascannons on Marine tanks to be more of a logistical item. Less of an ammunition load so they can advance farther, faster and more independently while still keeping excellent anti-materiel firepower.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

'Member Datafax cards?
'Member when Chaos Marks actually did something?
'Member when there were less Mexicans?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/12 01:09:21


   
Made in us
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
'Member Datafax cards?
'Member when Chaos Marks actually did something?
'Member when there were less Mexicans?


First two, yes.

The third. . . Wut?

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Insectum7 wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
'Member Datafax cards?
'Member when Chaos Marks actually did something?
'Member when there were less Mexicans?


First two, yes.

The third. . . Wut?


He's doing a bit from South Park - "'memberberries". They make you remember stuff - the good old days. And then remember racist stuff from then, too.

   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




 H.B.M.C. wrote:
'Member Datafax cards?
'Member when Chaos Marks actually did something?
'Member when there were less Mexicans?


I wonder if a mexican in australia is the same thing as they are here. Otherwise this doesn't seem to make much sense.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

It's a "Member Berry" reference from South Park.

They start off with a bunch of things that Randy misses, and throw in the Mexicans line at the end, to which he suddenly comes out of his stupor and says "Wait, what?".

   
Made in us
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's a "Member Berry" reference from South Park.

They start off with a bunch of things that Randy misses, and throw in the Mexicans line at the end, to which he suddenly comes out of his stupor and says "Wait, what?".

Ahh. . . I never saw too much of South Park. Great show though.

That said, maybe not the greatest thing to post


And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Nah I've explained it now. Jokes are always better when you explain them.

   
 
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