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 NH Gunsmith wrote:

 Voidwraith wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I'm steering away from index-only stuff, as I assume it will be gone in 9th.

Same...I'm a shark. No neck...only moving forward.

Agreed. I popped the Jump Pack off my Priest last night and gave him his old backpack. Thankfully there wasn't any paint on him. I am avoiding Index options with this army since my Guard have a good chunk lf points from it... Still annoyed my 20 Rough Riders are likely to disappear at some point. Those cost a fortune to collect the Tallarn sculpts all new in blister/box.

Pretty much. The FLG guys have been saying for awhile to not be surprised that once all the Codex books are out, the index's will go OOP and with them the rules and ability to play Index only units after that.

I wouldn't be surprised if they got their Jetpacks FAQ'd back, much like Deamon Princes did with their wings.

 tpogs wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if they got their Jetpacks FAQ'd back, much like Deamon Princes did with their wings.

Well, it works out for the best for me anyways. Saved me enough points to do what I wanted with my list by taking the Jump Pack off.

What do you guys think..

Fun for friendly clashes, but even potentiality for competitive scene. Most aggressive 2k thing I could pull from my minis is:

Double vanguard with batallion

Librarian dread

10man jump pack DC
10man jump pack DC
5man vanguard jump pack or assault termies

Lemartes

7man sanguinary guard
Sanguinary ancient
DC dread

Lieutenant with jump pack
DC captain with thunder hammer and jump pack (visions of sanguinius)

3x 5man scouts (melee)

Stormraven gunship (paint in DC colours)

This would be so aggressive list, should force your opponent to think deploying which DC blob might use the Forlorns fury and deep strikers have another threat via 3d6 charge stratagem.

Anti-tank comes from thunder hammers from every jump packed unit.

Sounds crazy to me, although I'm in a happy 100 years birthday Finland mood..

Give it a try. Put 48" guns on the raven at least.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Yea, but I would rather lose a 13 point per model Marine vs an 18 point per model Marine to the Plasma spam that seems to dominate my local play group.

They wont shoot overcharged plasma at your regular space marines with 1 wound. But it is a problem where I play too. Hellblasters, they are so hot right now, Hellblasters. I think I have it figured out though. You need to shoot everything you got at them, take them out ASAP. A unit of 10 Tactical Termies dropping in, shooting everything they got ( 8 storm bolters 2 AC's ) with re rolls to hit isnt a bad idea with the archangels stratagem, then hopefully get a charge off on the same turn.

Working on some HQ units and an extra Sanguinary Guard model....

senor_flojo wrote:
Working on some HQ units and an extra Sanguinary Guard model....

DAMN. Love the wings

Thanks! Intial wash with nuln oil, going back over then with white when I get home from work.

So i was thinking about other good was to help make the BA alpha strike even better by engaging more units, and then I got to thinking about Eversor assassins. They have 3D6 charge can infiltrate, and have a ton of attacks on the charge, like 8. Seems like a perfect addition to other JP squads coming down to assault turn 1.

If you can get 3 or 4 units into CC turn 1, I think that might be enough....

Does having duel chainswords mean you get 2 additional attacks? If so, I could see a really cheap unit of Death company armed with duel chainswords, backed up by a sang priest and chaplain to actually be quite good for the points, especially if you have a librarian giving them another attack. 6 attacks each on the charge, wounding on 2's, re-rolling hits.

EDIT: Can't seem to arm DC with duel chainswords in Battlescribe. Is that a mistake in the app? Or can you actually not?

They can't be armed with dual chainswords. The index doesn't allow it, and I don't believe the codex does either.

bobafett012 wrote:
They can't be armed with dual chainswords. The index doesn't allow it, and I don't believe the codex does either.

This disappoints me greatly


Automatically Appended Next Post:

senor_flojo wrote:
Working on some HQ units and an extra Sanguinary Guard model....

That priest is top notch and I love the death company guy. Keen to see them finished

bobafett012 wrote:
So i was thinking about other good was to help make the BA alpha strike even better by engaging more units, and then I got to thinking about Eversor assassins. They have 3D6 charge can infiltrate, and have a ton of attacks on the charge, like 8. Seems like a perfect addition to other JP squads coming down to assault turn 1.

If you can get 3 or 4 units into CC turn 1, I think that might be enough....

Thought the same but will you not lose the red thirst if you have this guy in the same detachment???

Just putting my first list together from all the reveals and leaks and am not sure I'm reading the Baal predator right..... How is it 100pts base!!!!

Unless I'm missing something the base chassis is exactly the same as a normal predator with the ability to perhaps move an extra inch or two when advancing. The base predator costs 70 and the Baal costs 100, what gives?

Don't forget twin assault cannons also got nerfed, pricewise.

Tiberius501 wrote:Can't seem to arm DC with duel chainswords in Battlescribe. Is that a mistake in the app? Or can you actually not?

DC cant use dual chainswords. Thats why company veterans with JP (index version) are better. They have no 6+ FNP, but they also have red thirst. DC has only 1 additional attack when they charge, vets always have +1 attack because of the second chainsword. And they can use SS for 5 pts. Downside is that their unit size is only 5.

WisdomLS wrote:Just putting my first list together from all the reveals and leaks and am not sure I'm reading the Baal predator right..... How is it 100pts base!!!!

Unless I'm missing something the base chassis is exactly the same as a normal predator with the ability to perhaps move an extra inch or two when advancing. The base predator costs 70 and the Baal costs 100, what gives?

Yes, its insane. A razorback with twin ass cannon is 114 and can carry 6 models, the baal pred is 144 with a twin ass cannon and cant carry any models. But you can advance 12"+6"+D6 with the lucifer engine stratagem, and not fire anything because all weapons are heavy

Melissia wrote:Don't forget twin assault cannons also got nerfed, pricewise.

I think 44 pts. is a fair price now.

If I had to come up with a reason that the Baal Pred is more expensive, it's gotta be that GW expects the BA Killshot with Baal Preds to be efficient enough damage to warrant the price increase.

Does a Baal predator count as a predator for kill shot?

Martel732 wrote:
Does a Baal predator count as a predator for kill shot?

Yes.

That makes kill shot better than I thought lol.

Two autolas + dakka baal, you can select which one needs the buff that turn.

Martel732 wrote:
That makes kill shot better than I thought lol.

Two autolas + dakka baal, you can select which one needs the buff that turn.

You misunderstood killshot, it has been discussed on dakka, all three predators gain +1 to wound and +1 damage. One predator makes no sense, to expensive, but if you can afford three they will rock with killshot.

Does Killshot affect one Pred or all 3? Never used enough Preds to need to worry about it lol.

Edit: I understood it as P5freak does.

p5freak wrote:

Tiberius501 wrote:Can't seem to arm DC with duel chainswords in Battlescribe. Is that a mistake in the app? Or can you actually not?

DC cant use dual chainswords. Thats why company veterans with JP (index version) are better. They have no 6+ FNP, but they also have red thirst. DC has only 1 additional attack when they charge, vets always have +1 attack because of the second chainsword. And they can use SS for 5 pts. Downside is that their unit size is only 5.

I would contend that there is a few more downsides than just the squad size. They can't use strategems that affect DC only, so no forlorn hope, A free move plus charge 24-38" on turn 1 is pretty good, Most, if not all of Lemartes abilities affect DC only, and IMO, i think he, along with DC are going to be a key component of successful BA melee forces. Astorath also has some DC only ability. You mentioned the 6+ FnP, which i contend is pretty lack luster, should have been 5+ for their cost. I don't know how much the extra attack is going to matter too much just because the DC should be wiping out whatever they charge, specially if you unleash rage them, that's 5 attacks each, or 50 attacks on the charge with a 10 man squad, with +1 to wound, and likely re-rolls to hit off Lemartes, i mean, not much is going to survive that anyways.

Bremon wrote:
Does Killshot affect one Pred or all 3? Never used enough Preds to need to worry about it lol.

Edit: I understood it as P5freak does.

This is why grammar is important!

It says "all the predators' attacks." The apostrophe is the important thing here. Anytime an apostrophe comes after the s, it is both possessive and plural, therefore it is referring to more than one predator gaining the bonus. If it were written "all the predator's attacks" then it would be different.

Raulengrin wrote:

Bremon wrote:
Does Killshot affect one Pred or all 3? Never used enough Preds to need to worry about it lol.

Edit: I understood it as P5freak does.

This is why grammar is important!

It says "all the predators' attacks." The apostrophe is the important thing here. Anytime an apostrophe comes after the s, it is both possessive and plural, therefore it is referring to more than one predator gaining the bonus. If it were written "all the predator's attacks" then it would be different.

precisely what I thought, thank you.

I don't have a damn codex yet, so I don't know the details.

bobafett012 wrote:

p5freak wrote:

Tiberius501 wrote:Can't seem to arm DC with duel chainswords in Battlescribe. Is that a mistake in the app? Or can you actually not?

DC cant use dual chainswords. Thats why company veterans with JP (index version) are better. They have no 6+ FNP, but they also have red thirst. DC has only 1 additional attack when they charge, vets always have +1 attack because of the second chainsword. And they can use SS for 5 pts. Downside is that their unit size is only 5.

I would contend that there is a few more downsides than just the squad size. They can't use strategems that affect DC only, so no forlorn hope, A free move plus charge 24-38" on turn 1 is pretty good, Most, if not all of Lemartes abilities affect DC only, and IMO, i think he, along with DC are going to be a key component of successful BA melee forces. Astorath also has some DC only ability. You mentioned the 6+ FnP, which i contend is pretty lack luster, should have been 5+ for their cost. I don't know how much the extra attack is going to matter too much just because the DC should be wiping out whatever they charge, specially if you unleash rage them, that's 5 attacks each, or 50 attacks on the charge with a 10 man squad, with +1 to wound, and likely re-rolls to hit off Lemartes, i mean, not much is going to survive that anyways.

I think Lemartes and the Death Company are going to be important for a melee focused Blood Angels army, but I really think that the power of Vanguard Vets and a Relic Jump Pack Librarian is also going to be a key element for their points costs. Our models still die like normal Marines, even with the points drops our models are still very expensive.

bobafett012 wrote:
I would contend that there is a few more downsides than just the squad size. They can't use strategems that affect DC only, so no forlorn hope, A free move plus charge 24-38" on turn 1 is pretty good, Most, if not all of Lemartes abilities affect DC only, and IMO, i think he, along with DC are going to be a key component of successful BA melee forces. Astorath also has some DC only ability. You mentioned the 6+ FnP, which i contend is pretty lack luster, should have been 5+ for their cost. I don't know how much the extra attack is going to matter too much just because the DC should be wiping out whatever they charge, specially if you unleash rage them, that's 5 attacks each, or 50 attacks on the charge with a 10 man squad, with +1 to wound, and likely re-rolls to hit off Lemartes, i mean, not much is going to survive that anyways.

Well, there is no need for forlorn, if vets have JP and can deepstrike. Saves 2 CPs. A chaplain for 90 pts. can partially replace lemartes. He is not as good, but costs 40 pts. less. Keep in mind that black rage is only 1pt. A veteran is 16, DC is 17. Getting a 6+ FNP and +1 attack on charge for 1 pt is really not bad.
DC can be buffed like hell, but it takes a lot of points. 15 models DC are ~300 pts. A sang priest with lemartes and a librarian are another ~300 pts. You kill whatever you charge, but then what ? You are standing there, your opponent will focus fire on your DC and probably kill them all.

Raulengrin wrote:
It says "all the predators' attacks." The apostrophe is the important thing here. Anytime an apostrophe comes after the s, it is both possessive and plural, therefore it is referring to more than one predator gaining the bonus. If it were written "all the predator's attacks" then it would be different.

Unless its another screwup by GW. They are well known for bad choice of words. I wouldnt be surprised if they misplaced the apostrophe.

Raulengrin wrote:

Bremon wrote:
Does Killshot affect one Pred or all 3? Never used enough Preds to need to worry about it lol.

Edit: I understood it as P5freak does.

This is why grammar is important!

It says "all the predators' attacks." The apostrophe is the important thing here. Anytime an apostrophe comes after the s, it is both possessive and plural, therefore it is referring to more than one predator gaining the bonus. If it were written "all the predator's attacks" then it would be different.

Part of the Killshot says +1 to damage rolls. Would this affect the assault cannon and heavy bolter? Their damage is static, so you don’t really roll for it