Blood Angels Tactica - Assaulting and How Meph got a brand new sword.

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**senor_flojo**

I'm thinking perk-wise. Having the reroll wounds could help with Lemmy or another chaplain. But I'm just spitballing.

**Spado**

NH Gunsmith wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Put scouts in front of your intercessors.

Tyranids, Guard, Orks, Death Guard and Eldar care not for Scouts. They would die along with the Intercessors. And now your essentially paying 29 points for an Intercessor if they need Scouts in front of them to survive. I would rather take budget Plasma Tac Squads in Rhinos. The Rhinos themselves are a fast credible threat to charge units with, block line of sight to your Tac Squads while they Plasma something to death, and provide decent fire support with 2 Storm Bolters.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
If Intercessor Marines had a cheap transport to go with them I would consider using them. But right now they are just asking to be shot. They are also just so slow now.

The new Strategem that allows us to rocket a vehicle forwards will be great for sending a 5 man Tac Squad in Rhino off to claim an objective, or push a weak part of the enemy's army.

The only Primaris I will honestly consider (still) is Hellblasters in place of Devastator Squads. All of our other options fill the roles we need them for in our army better,

Assault units? Vanguard Vets, Death Company and Sanguinary Guard... what Primaris option comes close to these with the same utility and speed and reliability the new Strategems give them when getting into close combat?

Troops. Sure Intercessors can work, they get decent range and have AP -1 on their guns, but you lose far more per model against the plethora of 2 damage weapons in the current state of the game. Once your vehicles die within the first 1-2 turns, it becomes far less beneficial to pop a 1 wound Tac Marine with a Lascannon than an Intercessor.

I see your point but 3 intercessors squads are cheaper than 3 tactical squads in rhinos. Moreover, yes plasma is surely ruining your plan when fielding intercessors btu the enemy is forced to overcharge and he's probably doing this only if a captain is nearby. He's actually investing some points to kill a single 5 man squad. Moreover, intercessors can screen better your heavy guns just behind, either hellblasters or devastator squads. Additionally, if the enemy is trying to break through you can use that 1 CP to get your death company /sanguinary guard all the way back to the field.
For sure I won't use scouts again. They are great for deep strike denial but they always give a free first blood away and honestly you don't pull out evnough 6's to justify their use (according to me).

My two cents

**Xirax**

About the DC HQ thingie, can we give it to a capt in termie armour? 2+/4++/5+++ sounds resilient to me or throw a storm shield in there for 3++... I've had capt Karlaen model lying around in the bitz box since shield of Baal. Jump pack is definately more competive because of the mobility, but idea of DC in s termie outfit... Just spitting my balls here too..

**niv-mizzet**

I'm actually thinking some infantry gunline builds with captain/LT/ancient with the relic FNP banner and some primaris could be interesting, at least as the part of the list that isn't going deep strike charging.

**Martel732**

Play itc or insist on using first strike instead of first blood. They do give up itc maelstrom pts easily though as well.

**Spado**

Dunno if this will be efficient but have a look at this:
Librarian with jump pack that prevents overwatch. Drop him 9" from enemy line and use wings of sanguinius to move 12" and have a guaranteed charge. Drop near him your warlord who happens to be a dc captain with the baal thunderhammer relic (no penalty to hit), a storm shield and the warlord trait that let you have FnP 5+ rerolling 1s. You multicharge a veihcle and that annoying bubble wrap troop with your librarian, then you go in with your warlord. Should be fun.

**p5freak**

I already have the codex

Preordered last saturday and picked it up today at the FLGS.

**Martel732**

They aren't on sale until Sat though, right?

**NH Gunsmith**

p5freak wrote:
I already have the codex Preordered last saturday and picked it up today at the FLGS.

Did they give it to you early?

**Xirax**

p5freak wrote:
I already have the codex Preordered last saturday and picked it up today at the FLGS.

Well, are company vets with jump packs still available in the codex?

**NH Gunsmith**

Spado wrote:

I see your point but 3 intercessors squads are cheaper than 3 tactical squads in rhinos. Moreover, yes plasma is surely ruining your plan when fielding intercessors btu the enemy is forced to overcharge and he's probably doing this only if a captain is nearby. He's actually investing some points to kill a single 5 man squad. Moreover, intercessors can screen better your heavy guns just behind, either hellblasters or devastator squads. Additionally, if the enemy is trying to break through you can use that 1 CP to get your death company /sanguinary guard all the way back to the field.
For sure I won't use scouts again. They are great for deep strike denial but they always give a free first blood away and honestly you don't pull out evnough 6's to justify their use (according to me).

My two cents

Yeah, I just like that my Rhinos can act as mobile LOS blockers and charge fodder. My meta has Death Guard lists running TONS of 5 man Plasma Squads with rerolls, an Eldar army that has multi damage weapons up the wazoo and a Plasma/Artillery spam Guard army. I just have a hard time finding any value in a unit that can be annihilated so easy without having some form of transport that can keep them alive... Plus it doesn't help that I have a bias against all things Primaris.

**Martel732**

BA melee scouts are going to be $$.

**p5freak**

Xirax wrote:
p5freak wrote:
I already have the codex Preordered last saturday and picked it up today at the FLGS.

Well, are company vets with jump packs still available in the codex?

Sadly no

And DC cannot use two chainswords. Looks like i have to repaint my red vets black

**Martel732**

So honor guard is gone?

**p5freak**

No more honor guard for BA.

**Martel732**

Is there still a command squad w/ jump packs?

**p5freak**

Aside from DC only vanguard and assault squads can use JP.

**Martel732**

And sanguinary guard I assume?

**Xirax**

Hope DC still have access to boltgun & chainsword combo, because I changed like 15 bolt pistols into boltguns after 8th ed.

Now I'm looking at my plasma vets with jump pack:
2x with plasmagun and storm shield
1x with combi-plasma and other hand pointing forward.
2x plasmaguns with magnetized backs
1x combi-plasma with magnetized back

Only if drop pods had some validness...

Any idea what I could do with those storm shield and plasmaguns? One pointing the hand could be a lieutenant, but to accompany him with what??

You guys are saying that it's ok to use index version of the sanguinary priest to get a jump pack. Do you think that your local tournament organizers would let you bring index versions of company veterans (with jump packs in this case)?

**the_scotsman**

I'm curious - ignoring the fact that you could use the index to get the company vets and what have you with jump packs, what's the benefit of using those vs for instance Sanguinary Guard? I was just looking at the numbers for 10 Sanguinary Guard if you give them an Ancient with the Banner of Sacrifice and declare him the warlord, and it's pretty impressive. They carve through 9 terminators, deal 17 wounds on average to a standard T7/3+ medium tank/monster, and 11 wounds on average to a T8/2+ heavy tank/monster, just equipped with Swords and nothing else. with the relic banner they have a 63% chance of surviving a wound from an overcharged plasma gun, and it takes 26.5 rapid firing FRFSRF lasguns to take one down if your opponent is inclined to go the volume of fire route.

**Martel732**

I'm steering away from index-only stuff, as I assume it will be gone in 9th.

**Xirax**

Martel732 wrote:
I'm steering away from index-only stuff, as I assume it will be gone in 9th.

Even no jump packs with sanguinary priest? For how long they have had access to them?

Other thing.. what's the deal with the DC chaplain model, chaplain with visions to do it DC or does the codex have an own entry for DC chap? It's so great model.. I've been proxying it as Lemartes though.

**Martel732**

Dunno. I get the book Saturday.

**bobafett012**

the_scotsman wrote:
I'm curious - ignoring the fact that you could use the index to get the company vets and what have you with jump packs, what's the benefit of using those vs for instance Sanguinary Guard? I was just looking at the numbers for 10 Sanguinary Guard if you give them an Ancient with the Banner of Sacrifice and declare him the warlord, and it's pretty impressive. They carve through 9 terminators, deal 17 wounds on average to a standard T7/3+ medium tank/monster, and 11 wounds on average to a T8/2+ heavy tank/monster, just equipped with Swords and nothing else. with the relic banner they have a 63% chance of surviving a wound from an overcharged plasma gun, and it takes 26.5 rapid firing FRFSRF lasguns to take one down if your opponent is inclined to go the volume of fire route.

In the index the Ancients are Elites not HQ so they couldn't be your warlord, which means you have to put even more eggs into that, already expensive basket. I was kind of thinking the sanguinor with a smaller squad of SG would be sufficient, plus of course other threats as well, maybe either 1 big or 2 smaller DC squads with Lemartes nearby and a Libby Dread. Back all that up with either AC/LC preds, tri-las preds or a couple flyers, probably storm talons.

If your going heavy JP list, i think the key is being able to get enough charges off in your alpha strike that if they fall back they are down too much fire power to hurt your advance enough, or just be able to wipe out a couple squads.

**the_scotsman**

bobafett012 wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
I'm curious - ignoring the fact that you could use the index to get the company vets and what have you with jump packs, what's the benefit of using those vs for instance Sanguinary Guard? I was just looking at the numbers for 10 Sanguinary Guard if you give them an Ancient with the Banner of Sacrifice and declare him the warlord, and it's pretty impressive. They carve through 9 terminators, deal 17 wounds on average to a standard T7/3+ medium tank/monster, and 11 wounds on average to a T8/2+ heavy tank/monster, just equipped with Swords and nothing else. with the relic banner they have a 63% chance of surviving a wound from an overcharged plasma gun, and it takes 26.5 rapid firing FRFSRF lasguns to take one down if your opponent is inclined to go the volume of fire route.

In the index the Ancients are Elites not HQ so they couldn't be your warlord, which means you have to put even more eggs into that, already expensive basket. I was kind of thinking the sanguinor with a smaller squad of SG would be sufficient, plus of course other threats as well, maybe either 1 big or 2 smaller DC squads with Lemartes nearby and a Libby Dread. Back all that up with either AC/LC preds, tri-las preds or a couple flyers, probably storm talons.

If your going heavy JP list, i think the key is being able to get enough charges off in your alpha strike that if they fall back they are down too much fire power to hurt your advance enough, or just be able to wipe out a couple squads.

Your warlord can be any model. If they are a character, they gain a warlord trait. Is there some other section in the rules that requires them to be an HQ?

**p5freak**

Martel732 wrote:And sanguinary guard I assume?

Those still have JP, actually wings.

Xirax wrote:Hope DC still have access to boltgun & chainsword combo, because I changed like 15 bolt pistols into boltguns after 8th ed.

Yes, they still have that. You already have 9th ed. ?

Xirax wrote:
You guys are saying that it's ok to use index version of the sanguinary priest to get a jump pack. Do you think that your local tournament organizers would let you bring index versions of company veterans (with jump packs in this case)?

Yes, GW allows the use of the index. But what is allowed at a local tournament, and whats not, is completely up to the local tournament organizers.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:

Your warlord can be any model. If they are a character, they gain a warlord trait. Is there some other section in the rules that requires them to be an HQ?

No.

**Xirax**

Last thing about the DC chap model..

Kitted the way it is, is what 99 points. You could make it DC and give 5+ fnp or make the crozius 3 damage.. for it's point not bad.

But, earlier I was wondering what would a captain that has fallen into the black rage look like model wise. I started thinking that should I ever counter people who wouldn't let me use the DC chap model as one. Give him relic/artisan of war special thunder hammer and why not, the special hammer couldn't look like that.. Am I being too optimistic?

Stupid index begone thing, what the heck I'm supposed to do with those models with jump packs and storm shields, they have no helmets and have plasma guns in the other hand, but it can be easily snapped off. Tons of warm thoughts to a person who has a good suggestion. I'm pretty sure that other BA players besides me modeled some plasma gun, SS jump packers when we saw the company vets dataslates and now it's gone.

**Voidwraith**

Martel732 wrote:
I'm steering away from index-only stuff, as I assume it will be gone in 9th.

Same...I'm a shark. No neck...only moving forward.

**NH Gunsmith**

Voidwraith wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
I'm steering away from index-only stuff, as I assume it will be gone in 9th.

Same...I'm a shark. No neck...only moving forward.

Agreed. I popped the Jump Pack off my Priest last night and gave him his old backpack. Thankfully there wasn't any paint on him. I am avoiding Index options with this army since my Guard have a good chunk lf points from it... Still annoyed my 20 Rough Riders are likely to disappear at some point. Those cost a fortune to collect the Tallarn sculpts all new in blister/box.

**U02dah4**

Xirax wrote:
Last thing about the DC chap model..

Kitted the way it is, is what 99 points. You could make it DC and give 5+ fnp or make the crozius 3 damage.. for it's point not bad.

But, earlier I was wondering what would a captain that has fallen into the black rage look like model wise. I started thinking that should I ever counter people who wouldn't let me use the DC chap model as one. Give him relic/artisan of war special thunder hammer and why not, the special hammer couldn't look like that.. Am I being too optimistic?

Stupid index begone thing, what the heck I'm supposed to do with those models with jump packs and storm shields, they have no helmets and have plasma guns in the other hand, but it can be easily snapped off. Tons of warm thoughts to a person who has a good suggestion. I'm pretty sure that other BA players besides me modeled some plasma gun, SS jump packers when we saw the company vets dataslates and now it's gone.

I was thinking of using raphen from raphens death company as the cpt

Can't company veterans take plasma gun stormshields and jump packs and if it's not in the codex you can use the index