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Made in ca
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Now we watch the rest of the board feast on you because you cannot defend how your tactic is actually supposed to work against a skilled DE player.
   
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Annandale, VA

Canadian 5th wrote:Insectum just plays with his same casual meta year in and year out so he knows which opponents will make positioning errors to be exploited before he even sits down to play the game. His ideas simply don't work against a wider pool of highly skilled players.


Do you actually play 9th now (competitively, at that) or does this post just completely lack self-awareness?
   
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Can you two get a room and let the rest of us get back to ranting about Drukhari, please?
   
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 Ordana wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
I don't think you've ever played DE if you think you can use deep strike to deliver 30 devilgaunts into a place where they can shoot more than one raider. Sounds a lot like theorycrafting that hasn't seen the real table. It just doesn't work, the thing about DE that is so strong is they just have so many piles of stuff that they will easily screen you out from DSing a 30-blob anywhere useful.
I mean, if they want to screen out to protect their Raiders from Devilgaunts. . . so I can shoot their infantry with Devilgaunts, that seems perfectly fine by me. It doesn't matter, the point is that because Raiders have only a 4+ they become more susceptible to small arms fire. A five man Tac squad with a Lascannon will average more damage to the Raider by rapid-firing their Bolters in Tactical Doctrine than with the Lascannon.

 Canadian 5th wrote:

Insectum just plays with his same casual meta year in and year out so he knows which opponents will make positioning errors to be exploited before he even sits down to play the game. His ideas simply don't work against a wider pool of highly skilled players.
Canadian 5th has neither an argument, nor a point, so he resorts to asking for personal tourney results. I'll call it a victory.

 whembly wrote:
Speak of the devil here's a post from Goonhammer theory crafting which unit can take on Raiders:
https://www.goonhammer.com/hammer-of-math-killing-drukhari-raiders-xenos-edition/
Well he missed both DevilGaunts and Shock Cannons, both of which appear to get better results. The Shock Cannons because they get bonus MWs and the DevilGaunts because they spit a badjillion shots.
Your answer to Raiders is not the 36" no LOS gun, but the 24" gun because it can do a MW on a 4+? Your either not going to be in range, not have LoS or have moved so far forward the rest of the DE will wipe you off the table.

And Devilgaunt deepstrike requires you to get first turn, them not to screen with anything, kill 2 Raiders and then die to the contents of those raiders, who make their points back on your gaunts regardless.
Shock Cannons are not my "answer", they just put up really good numbers. Personally I'm not a huge fan.

The Devilgaunt Deepstrike is just an example of a potential move to make. The counter to it seems to ignore the fact that the Nid player has 1700 other points on the table that can attempt to counterplay the counterplay, etc etc.

Besides, I'm pretty sure the DE move isnt to just sit in the backfield, but to actually move up and take objectives, in which case deep striking may not be necessary and the Raiders might no longer be the right things to target, and there's going to be a lot more units in range to do, whatever they're gonna do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
yukishiro1 wrote:

I'm not trying to be rude, but it is super obvious from these comments that you haven't actually played vs a competitive DE list played by a competent player. What you wrote re: your plan to kill a bunch of raiders with deepstruck devilgaunts was just downright silly and a really prime example of theorycrafting that doesn't take into account how the game is actually played. If you put 210 points of gaunts in deepstrike they will absolutely screen you out so all you can shoot them at is one unit of crap, so conrgatulations, you just used 210 points of gaunts to kill...some mandrakes? An empty raider that's already delivered its dudes?

And then 10 wyches kills like 20 of your gaunts and traps the rest in combat to use as a shield.

This is what makes DE so strong - they have have piles and piles of cheap but extremely lethal junk they can afford to just toss away because they've got, well, pile and piles of it.
Sadly no, I haven't been able to get a game since covid began. Which is too bad because hearing about the DE really makes me want to play against it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Canadian 5th wrote:

Now we watch the rest of the board feast on you because you cannot defend how your tactic is actually supposed to work against a skilled DE player.
*shrug* my main point still stands, small arms have increased effectiveness against Raiders because they're only 4+.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/11 00:56:40


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Not sure if this was posted already.

TTT did an analysis regarding Drukhari being OP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BAXyFhnV_U

Not everyone is a fan but I like their vids

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AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


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 catbarf wrote:
Canadian 5th wrote:Insectum just plays with his same casual meta year in and year out so he knows which opponents will make positioning errors to be exploited before he even sits down to play the game. His ideas simply don't work against a wider pool of highly skilled players.


Do you actually play 9th now (competitively, at that) or does this post just completely lack self-awareness?


And given this is someone who has explicitly stated they come on here to try and bait out reactions from people, I'm never sure why anyone takes his contributions with anything below a small mine of salt.

+ + +

Initial FAQ sorted out the Reavers, at least, even if that was the most blatant element that needed fixing - kinda agree that they may as well have included the Heat Lance in the FAQ points listing just for completeness, but that's a minor thing.

DT looks like it is going to be a pain to find an elegant fix for - the Succubus/Razorflail/Comp. Edge set-up should be a little easier. Possibly just tweak the Flail wording so that the doubling of attacks only happens once per Combat Phase, or once per attack sequence? Not sure on the current wording, as I don't have the book.

Agree with whoever it was that said that if Trueborn are a problem, increase the cost of their upgrade rather than the cost of Master Archon - at least then the increase scales appropriately by usage, rather than skewing low or high depending on how many Trueborn turn up alongside the Archon.

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 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army... 
   
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yukishiro1 wrote:

And then 10 wyches kills like 20 of your gaunts and traps the rest in combat to use as a shield.
Out of curiosity, do Wyches ignore Overwatch? Because 30 Devilgaunts average something like 8 Wyches killed on Overwatch.

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 Insectum7 wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:

And then 10 wyches kills like 20 of your gaunts and traps the rest in combat to use as a shield.
Out of curiosity, do Wyches ignore Overwatch? Because 30 Devilgaunts average something like 8 Wyches killed on Overwatch.


If they are Cult of Strife with access to the Book of Rust supplement, they do indeed have a 1 CP "cannot fire overwatch at this unit" stratagem
   
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 Argive wrote:
Not sure if this was posted already.

TTT did an analysis regarding Drukhari being OP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BAXyFhnV_U

Not everyone is a fan but I like their vids


Nice, it is good to hear from the playtesters that a core weapon on a core unit was not tested by them in a way it eneded up in the codex. I wonder if they have more stuff like that. Like we tested it at this points and with this rules, but then GW decided to turn a D1 or d3 weapon in to a D2 or D3.

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 Insectum7 wrote:
Out of curiosity, do Wyches ignore Overwatch? Because 30 Devilgaunts average something like 8 Wyches killed on Overwatch.


They have a strat.

On the Goonhammer Changes - I think only the raider change is that impactful and I'd personally rather just push raiders up 15 and leave it at that. The Characters are undercosted - but 5 points is incredibly minor and I think weaker/more expensive transports would bring things in line. There's an argument this is foolish because Drazhar is I think an obvious auto-take if ever there was one - but equally he does depend on transportation. The internal soup seems like a bug - but I'm not sure its "that" much power. Ditto for the extra 2 CP for 3 Patrols (which I'm afraid may be a feature rather than a bug.)

I feel their proposed DT change is borderline pointless. Okay it adds insult to injury that a 5 man squad of Wracks can go jump on an objective turn 4/5 after killing 300% of their points cost - but realistically the issue is... that they get 100% of their points cost from pulling the trigger once. If over a game I get to fire 6~ Liquifiers, I don't care if I've melted the squad in the process.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/11 10:04:01


 
   
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 Argive wrote:
Not sure if this was posted already.

TTT did an analysis regarding Drukhari being OP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BAXyFhnV_U

Not everyone is a fan but I like their vids


I 100% ignore all TTS game data b.c their terrain set up and model placements are terrible. A 20man Hellion blob is as small as a 10man on a real table top, models over lap too easier and the WTC terrain IMO is a huge problem.

When you can hide 6 raiders, 40 Hellions 100% on turn 1 that is a big problem.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/11 11:13:03


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But that is more or less what happens on every table that has terrain build for 9th ed. And I must say I feel good, when designers say, that the core problem for DE and Harlequins is their super efficient transports.

Then on the other side, If I see it, then why didn't GW.

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Karol wrote:
But that is more or less what happens on every table that has terrain build for 9th ed. And I must say I feel good, when designers say, that the core problem for DE and Harlequins is their super efficient transports.

Then on the other side, If I see it, then why didn't GW.


It`s like saying that the problem of SM is the super effective infantry. This guys are not designers of the game, just free testers who give GW input, but don`t have real power how the rules or points will look at the end.
Every codex have some very good stuff and it`s the opponent job to play around it, counter it more heavily in building phase or simple ignore it.
Like A.Harrison sad, my flyer list was super strong, but it loses vs custodes bikes, so my plan is to hope i never play them and then he go to LVO final.

   
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 Amishprn86 wrote:
 Argive wrote:
Not sure if this was posted already.

TTT did an analysis regarding Drukhari being OP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BAXyFhnV_U

Not everyone is a fan but I like their vids


I 100% ignore all TTS game data b.c their terrain set up and model placements are terrible. A 20man Hellion blob is as small as a 10man on a real table top, models over lap too easier and the WTC terrain IMO is a huge problem.

When you can hide 6 raiders, 40 Hellions 100% on turn 1 that is a big problem.

I think you misread something here. TTT stands for Table Top Tactics, the name of the Youtube channel. TTS, as in Table Top Simulator is a program to virtualise boardgames.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/11 11:59:12


 
   
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Karol wrote:
But that is more or less what happens on every table that has terrain build for 9th ed. And I must say I feel good, when designers say, that the core problem for DE and Harlequins is their super efficient transports.


Did you then just ignore the fact that their suggestions were:

Designer 1: +10pts to chassis, swap cost of Dissie to 0 and Dark Lance to 5
Designer 2: +5pts to chassis, swap cost of Dissie to 0 Dark lance to 5

And on the Venom: "It's fine base, the splinter cannon is too expensive."

^and they did not say at all that Harlequins were broken because of their transports. They said Dark Eldar do what Harlequins do better. Which is true.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
other TTT suggestions so far:

-no bonus +2CP for patrols (Agree)

-+15 to DL raider, +5 to dissie raider (Agree)

-No more mixymix transports and different subfactions ie DT in a BH raider (Agree)

-Get rid of the Razorflail/Compedge interaction (Agree, also duh)

-Wyches and Wracks +1pt (Agree, only one guy says Wracks)

-Burn Dark Tech to the ground (Great, fantastic, feth that tactic)

they're saying the exact thing that every sensible drukhari player is saying, they're just saing it in a video called 'Are Drukhari Broken' so the people chicken littling can screech 'SEE, I TOLD YOU THAT RAIDERS NEED TO BE ONE HUNDRED FIFTY POINTS!@!!!!!!"



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/11 12:12:23


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
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 the_scotsman wrote:

Did you then just ignore the fact that their suggestions were:


^and they did not say at all that Harlequins were broken because of their transports. They said Dark Eldar do what Harlequins do better. Which is true.

they're saying the exact thing that every sensible drukhari player is saying, they're just saing it in a video called 'Are Drukhari Broken' so the people chicken littling can screech 'SEE, I TOLD YOU THAT RAIDERS NEED TO BE ONE HUNDRED FIFTY POINTS!@!!!!!!"


Show me when in this thread I said that raider should cost any points or 150pts. And ues the harlis transport do same stuff the DE transports do, with the small difference that they are not 10 to 15 pts undercosted. If they were or if they had access to more unit types, like mandrakes, they probably could have an even higher then 60%+ win rate. Through out all the marine hate threads, it was always ignored, that they did a lot better then any other good army in 9th. And when I said that they are eldar, I was called out to be wrong, only for weeks later CWE/harli mix lists to start taking tournaments in the US, the same they were doing in central europe for months.

Plus am not sure what the change are suppose to fix. They would still be better then any prior 9th ed book, and a lot better then the bad and good 8th ed books. So I guess their limiters would suppose to be armies that are to come out next. Which I guess is nice for the people who are getting those next 1-2 books, but it doesn't help for people whose books already exist or who will maybe get an update in 2022.

The changes would maybe affect stuff like the top 8 tables at large tournaments. Plus the whole adapt and wait and see thing, is thrown out in to the ether as if it really worked. As if DE players would not be able to adapt themselfs, and historically against the +70% win rate the adaptation doesn't seem to work. When IH 2.0 were like that no one could adapt to them. When in 9th, harlis sat a tier above every good army, people had over a year to adapt to them. Somehow the adaptation didn't happen and harlis were not brought down to the level of other top tier armies. And as we agreed before, even if harlequins were very good, the DE are a much better version of their game play. So I don't know how and why armies that won't be getting any updates soon , are suppose to change. And I hope this isn't going to come in the form of new castellan, by which I mean an obligatory high cost big kit that forces people to play soup again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Marin wrote:
Karol wrote:
But that is more or less what happens on every table that has terrain build for 9th ed. And I must say I feel good, when designers say, that the core problem for DE and Harlequins is their super efficient transports.

Then on the other side, If I see it, then why didn't GW.


It`s like saying that the problem of SM is the super effective infantry. This guys are not designers of the game, just free testers who give GW input, but don`t have real power how the rules or points will look at the end.
Every codex have some very good stuff and it`s the opponent job to play around it, counter it more heavily in building phase or simple ignore it.
Like A.Harrison sad, my flyer list was super strong, but it loses vs custodes bikes, so my plan is to hope i never play them and then he go to LVO final.



Well lets assume that people always over react to new stuff. That everything new is considered broken, with few exeptions. But we can still look at the data.
DA were suppose to be the doom marine+ army, DA broken on top of marine broken. The win rates over all wen from 49% to 51% with more people playing the army. The thing DE did is uncomperable to what other armies did, with maybe the exeption of 2,0 IH. And 2.0 IH are considered to be the text book of broken design . And army does not go to almost 80% win rate, with a new book. This is not just a case of a bit better then others. This ia 16y old lifting competion, suddenly having some kid from turkmenistan lift 200kg.

If there were hard counters to DE, and top players both are playtesters and/or know playtesters, there would be people playing them. Or at least there would be people playing them after the 4-5th tournament over run with DE or DE soup lists. This is an extrem version of the harlequins situation. DE have more unit options and better rules then harlis. And no army went to become the harli de throners, not the DA and not even the DG. And both those armies were considered strong, and are strong. But not comparing to the real deal. I mean it has to mean something when a big GT winners says that he picked DE, because he didn't think he could beat anything that could beat DE right now. And then the top 8 has 2/3 of it full with DE or DE soup lists.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/11 12:55:18


If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
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a_typical_hero wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
 Argive wrote:
Not sure if this was posted already.

TTT did an analysis regarding Drukhari being OP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BAXyFhnV_U

Not everyone is a fan but I like their vids


I 100% ignore all TTS game data b.c their terrain set up and model placements are terrible. A 20man Hellion blob is as small as a 10man on a real table top, models over lap too easier and the WTC terrain IMO is a huge problem.

When you can hide 6 raiders, 40 Hellions 100% on turn 1 that is a big problem.

I think you misread something here. TTT stands for Table Top Tactics, the name of the Youtube channel. TTS, as in Table Top Simulator is a program to virtualise boardgames.


Soory I woke up and read it (4am for me lol) must have missed read TTT and TTS.

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Karol wrote:
 the_scotsman wrote:

Did you then just ignore the fact that their suggestions were:


^and they did not say at all that Harlequins were broken because of their transports. They said Dark Eldar do what Harlequins do better. Which is true.

they're saying the exact thing that every sensible drukhari player is saying, they're just saing it in a video called 'Are Drukhari Broken' so the people chicken littling can screech 'SEE, I TOLD YOU THAT RAIDERS NEED TO BE ONE HUNDRED FIFTY POINTS!@!!!!!!"


Show me when in this thread I said that raider should cost any points or 150pts. And ues the harlis transport do same stuff the DE transports do, with the small difference that they are not 10 to 15 pts undercosted. If they were or if they had access to more unit types, like mandrakes, they probably could have an even higher then 60%+ win rate. Through out all the marine hate threads, it was always ignored, that they did a lot better then any other good army in 9th. And when I said that they are eldar, I was called out to be wrong, only for weeks later CWE/harli mix lists to start taking tournaments in the US, the same they were doing in central europe for months.

Plus am not sure what the change are suppose to fix. They would still be better then any prior 9th ed book, and a lot better then the bad and good 8th ed books. So I guess their limiters would suppose to be armies that are to come out next. Which I guess is nice for the people who are getting those next 1-2 books, but it doesn't help for people whose books already exist or who will maybe get an update in 2022.

The changes would maybe affect stuff like the top 8 tables at large tournaments. Plus the whole adapt and wait and see thing, is thrown out in to the ether as if it really worked. As if DE players would not be able to adapt themselfs, and historically against the +70% win rate the adaptation doesn't seem to work. When IH 2.0 were like that no one could adapt to them. When in 9th, harlis sat a tier above every good army, people had over a year to adapt to them. Somehow the adaptation didn't happen and harlis were not brought down to the level of other top tier armies. And as we agreed before, even if harlequins were very good, the DE are a much better version of their game play. So I don't know how and why armies that won't be getting any updates soon , are suppose to change. And I hope this isn't going to come in the form of new castellan, by which I mean an obligatory high cost big kit that forces people to play soup again.


Yea, stats shows that you are not right. Repeating the some thing over and over again, dont make it truth. For every tournament that have harlequin + cwe on top 3, i can show you 2 of chaos or imperium without trying.
You are just speculating on what you think is to strong, harlequins and craftwords aeldar factions summary have the some placing in top 3 like custodes. Pure harlequins were doing better than the soup, with the new drukhari that can probably change, because CWE have units that are very good vs drukhari. Look at regions like Australia and Sweden, who practically did not stop tournaments, in those regions we also don`t see the dreaded harlequin superiority. Local central Europe TTS metta is not real prove for anything.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/11 13:37:44


 
   
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 Canadian 5th wrote:
 Tyran wrote:
 Canadian 5th wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
You can say that all you want but when I'm looking at a single unit of Termagants putting 18 wounds across two Raiders, I'm gonna be rethinking "good weapon profiles".

Yes, 210 points of models can almost but not quite kill an 85 point model with average rolls. Clearly, this is a reliable winning strategy...

Also, how are those 90 shots dealing 18 wounds across 2 T6 4+ armor models?

Single minded annihilation for 180 shots.

If you add Kronos then it gets up to 20.4 wounds, with Symbiostorm 27.

So that's 210 points, 2CP, and it assumes that your opponent doesn't use a -1 to hit strategy. It also requires you to be within 18" of the raider so it gives them an entire turn to move where they like.

Yeah, this isn't exactly a winning move.
It requires a trygon (155 points) to really pull off. It's a powerful Strat but it's a turn 2 play and while it might kill 2 raiders. A -1 to hit cuts it to 1.

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 Xenomancers wrote:
 Canadian 5th wrote:
 Tyran wrote:
 Canadian 5th wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
You can say that all you want but when I'm looking at a single unit of Termagants putting 18 wounds across two Raiders, I'm gonna be rethinking "good weapon profiles".

Yes, 210 points of models can almost but not quite kill an 85 point model with average rolls. Clearly, this is a reliable winning strategy...

Also, how are those 90 shots dealing 18 wounds across 2 T6 4+ armor models?

Single minded annihilation for 180 shots.

If you add Kronos then it gets up to 20.4 wounds, with Symbiostorm 27.

So that's 210 points, 2CP, and it assumes that your opponent doesn't use a -1 to hit strategy. It also requires you to be within 18" of the raider so it gives them an entire turn to move where they like.

Yeah, this isn't exactly a winning move.
It requires a trygon (155 points) to really pull off. It's a powerful Strat but it's a turn 2 play and while it might kill 2 raiders. A -1 to hit cuts it to 1.


You can strategic reserves now, I have not look at it in a while so correct me if I am wrong but you can use the Lictor Stratagem now for 1CP to pull them from reserves to the lictor instead.

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 Xenomancers wrote:
It requires a trygon (155 points) to really pull off. It's a powerful Strat but it's a turn 2 play and while it might kill 2 raiders. A -1 to hit cuts it to 1.
I play Jorm and it's usually Raveners that are bringing other models in. Not too fussed about the -1 since it only works on one Raider, and there will be more units to supplement fire/more available targets.

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Argive wrote:Not sure if this was posted already.

TTT did an analysis regarding Drukhari being OP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BAXyFhnV_U

Not everyone is a fan but I like their vids

I love TTT. Looks like they're seeing the same problems as everyone else, and their fixes are similar to what others have suggested. It should be noted as well that both of these guys are Drukhari players. Now gw just needs to get on with it.

Karol wrote:Nice, it is good to hear from the playtesters that a core weapon on a core unit was not tested by them in a way it eneded up in the codex. I wonder if they have more stuff like that. Like we tested it at this points and with this rules, but then GW decided to turn a D1 or d3 weapon in to a D2 or D3.

Yeah, I found that interesting as well. You'd think they'd go back and playtest it again after the change. But it's entirely possible that they did, just not with TTT. I don't think Dd3+3 Dark Lances are the problem though.
   
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Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






The cope is strong with the Forge the Narrative podcast, they suggest 65% win rate is the new GW (TM) balance so Drukhari are actually not that far from being balanced, asking for 55% WR max on a faction isn't fair against a small indie studio like GW.

Nothing can or should stop TOs from putting a pts comp in place, you can even score ITC pts I believe.

Spoletta wrote:
I'm completely against removing army rules if that army overperforms, especially in the case of the DE dex which is really really really well done.

The codex for the most part is well balanced internally AND externally. It is really just a few interactions and maybe one undercosted model which are causing the W/L ratio skyrocketing. We all know which are the suspects, so I don't see why firing with a shotgun at the target when you can snipe it.

Have you seen Wrack and Succubus options? Why are Haemonculus unpopular while HAEMONCULUS Covens are common.

Turn 1 charges, re-rolls in every roll and magical 6s that make saving throws a pain, badly designed rules should go.

Dark lance wasn't tested at D3+3 dmg, designers too confident in their ideas again, imbeciles are wasting the time of the playtesters.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
I don't think Dd3+3 Dark Lances are the problem though.

You are right, but dissies are no longer worth more points than dark lances. The lack of testing is evident. The damage change should have been done before testing or during narrative testing. Using TTT for anything but points adjustments and finding broken combos is bonkers. Get the Knife Ear podcasters to figure out whether 2d3 or 3+d3 is more thematic and fun and then get TTT to find out what it's worth on the tabletop.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/11 15:09:19


 
   
Made in it
Focused Fire Warrior





My guess is they plan to fix DE with the next big FAQ and point cost update, likely to be in June or July.


 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






 Amishprn86 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Canadian 5th wrote:
 Tyran wrote:
 Canadian 5th wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
You can say that all you want but when I'm looking at a single unit of Termagants putting 18 wounds across two Raiders, I'm gonna be rethinking "good weapon profiles".

Yes, 210 points of models can almost but not quite kill an 85 point model with average rolls. Clearly, this is a reliable winning strategy...

Also, how are those 90 shots dealing 18 wounds across 2 T6 4+ armor models?

Single minded annihilation for 180 shots.

If you add Kronos then it gets up to 20.4 wounds, with Symbiostorm 27.

So that's 210 points, 2CP, and it assumes that your opponent doesn't use a -1 to hit strategy. It also requires you to be within 18" of the raider so it gives them an entire turn to move where they like.

Yeah, this isn't exactly a winning move.
It requires a trygon (155 points) to really pull off. It's a powerful Strat but it's a turn 2 play and while it might kill 2 raiders. A -1 to hit cuts it to 1.


You can strategic reserves now, I have not look at it in a while so correct me if I am wrong but you can use the Lictor Stratagem now for 1CP to pull them from reserves to the lictor instead.
18" gun is the issue. Might even be a turn 3 play from SR. Jorm can do with lictors or raveners true. Trygon is the way I do it an I can not run a complete ass hive fleet. Levi for the win. Anyways this is really off topic. Nids are hella bad right now except for the forgeworld update which clearly under-points some super beasts. Hopefully they will be getting a new codex within the next 6 months.

Want to talk about laughable...A tyrranocyte costs more than a raider lol.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in mx
Tunneling Trygon




Mexico

I'm hoping the Tyrannocyte gets that "shoot at everything" rule from the Hammerfall bunker.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




NE Ohio, USA

Karol wrote:
But that is more or less what happens on every table that has terrain build for 9th ed. And I must say I feel good, when designers say, that the core problem for DE and Harlequins is their super efficient transports.

Then on the other side, If I see it, then why didn't GW.


What makes you think they didn't?
You've said earlier that you've noticed that some forces seem almost pre-built.
That x units + x# transports + ?? Fit nicely into 2k pts is not a coincidence.
GW has a plan (despite any current supply issues) concerning how many Raider kits they aiming to sell to the average Drukhari player.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






ccs wrote:
Karol wrote:
But that is more or less what happens on every table that has terrain build for 9th ed. And I must say I feel good, when designers say, that the core problem for DE and Harlequins is their super efficient transports.

Then on the other side, If I see it, then why didn't GW.


GW has a plan (despite any current supply issues) concerning how many Raider kits they aiming to sell to the average Drukhari player.


"clearly gw is displaying their diabolical mad genius 9 billion D chess plan to make raiders (the kit they've included in every bundle box ever for drukhari that every drukhari player has seven of and that you CANT EVEN fething BUY from games workshop currently) so OP that everyone....um.....buys...them."

.....naw dawg theyre just like 10-15pts undercosted. Calm down, its OK, fluoride and 5G didn't do 9-11.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




So can we stop with the "I can't buy DE, so they aren't broken" arguement? It's so missing the point. There are currently 4 Start Collecting boxes for DE and three of their big character guy, at my tiny local hobby store. There are countless ones on EBAY and amazon. Focus on the argument, not the factors.
   
Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So can we stop with the "I can't buy DE, so they aren't broken" arguement? It's so missing the point. There are currently 4 Start Collecting boxes for DE and three of their big character guy, at my tiny local hobby store. There are countless ones on EBAY and amazon. Focus on the argument, not the factors.

That's not the argument, the argument is "I can't buy DE, so they weren't made OP to sell more boxes". They were made OP because the designer felt like the stats should change and the team doesn't give more than half a gak about the balance of the points because they are filthy narrative players.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/11 16:04:23


 
   
 
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