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Suzuteo wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
I can't really afford 2x2 Dragoons in most lists. They are not that vital, I have found. Useful, but I wouldn't want to cut things like Robots to fit them in. And the RFBC is decent vs Thermal. If I didn't have two Neutrons, I would go Thermal, but I think I have anti-tank covered and the RFBC helps against infantry a bit more than the TC.

I need to paint up another Icarus array. Just don't have it ready yet. Twin Neutrons served me well though, because invariably I only roll 1's for shots. We benefit from that extra Neutron a lot, since we can kill infantry with such ease.

I absolutely would cut Kastelans for them. Kastelans get totally wrecked if you don't screen them properly. But then again, you've NEVER BEEN CHARGED, so maybe you don't see things like I do. Haha.

I wouldn't pay that many more points for slightly better anti-infantry, especially since you run 5 Kastelans. Besides, the Avenger is already amazingly good anti-infantry. (I would be so happy if AdMech Knights can take double Avenger like Renegade Knights.) Also, keep in mind that Thermal Cannon is great for medium-toughness units like Primaris, TEQs, Dreadnoughts, etc.

Yeah. The Icarus is mostly for anti-air. They shut down Tau and Eldar super hard; they just get oversaturated by threats.

I've been charged now. I got a lot more games in. And with my counter-assault unit nearby, it isn't the end all. Fulgurites charge in and smash face and free up my Kastelans. It doesn't always work, but it has helped a lot. Kastelans just are so stupid good. Cutting them is an awful choice, imo. Especially when I already only have 5 in my list. I would love to squeeze in another.

It also isn't slightly better - it is twice as good, generally. D6 vs D3. The Avenger is amazing - we all agree. If I could do dual Avengers, I would. In a heartbeat.

I guess my quick project in the next week or two will be getting another Icarus array built. I have the parts, just not the will to do it just yet. Still burnt out from my League.

Having screening for Kastellans is important, but Dragoons arent the unit to do it, they're not that good in general

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

I've been charged now. I got a lot more games in. And with my counter-assault unit nearby, it isn't the end all. Fulgurites charge in and smash face and free up my Kastelans. It doesn't always work, but it has helped a lot. Kastelans just are so stupid good. Cutting them is an awful choice, imo. Especially when I already only have 5 in my list. I would love to squeeze in another.

It also isn't slightly better - it is twice as good, generally. D6 vs D3. The Avenger is amazing - we all agree. If I could do dual Avengers, I would. In a heartbeat.

I guess my quick project in the next week or two will be getting another Icarus array built. I have the parts, just not the will to do it just yet. Still burnt out from my League.

Ah right, I forgot about the Fulgurites. They've been working out well for you? I have been skeptical, since you have to actually kill the entire attacking unit to free your Kastelans; my priority has been to intercept them as well as I can before they get to my Kastelans.

Kastelans are strong, but I find that having too many makes us vulnerable to aggressive, mobile assault armies.

Well, the D6 is 75% more volume than D3, but the important thing is what types of infantry we're talking about. If it's GEQ/MEQ, yes, RFBC is better. But then again, your Kastelans are even better than that. But if it's TEQs or something like MCs, well, the TC does here what Kastelans might not be optimal for. Then there's always the nice bit about the TC being much more variable. You might have turns where it totally fizzles out, and others where it makes back its point cost immediately; the RFBC probably takes 2-3 turns at the least to make its points back, and given how you're bringing your Knight into CC, there is no guarantee of that happening. There is also great satisfaction when you blow a transport before stomping on its contents.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Having screening for Kastellans is important, but Dragoons arent the unit to do it, they're not that good in general

Why's that? What aspect are they lacking in?

I see:
-Tough: T6 with Incense Cloud and Shroudpsalm, no battle damage penalties
-Cheap: 68 points is very affordable compared to Vanguard
-Can Fight: I am 100% convinced at this point that you need a screen that can fight
-Fat: Base size is great for tying up enemies
-Mobile: Closes gaps quickly, can intercept enemies and tie them in CC, grabs objectives

The only downside is that Taser Lances are an awkward weapon. They won't kill anything on their own--mostly mop-up--but do we expect Vanguard, Fulgurites, or Conscripts to either?

Fulgurites were decent in the game I played in but I made the mistake of trying to run out to an objective with them. I think in larger groups it helps their voltaic field on the charge with the mortal wounds.

Also I forgot to roll my "doesnt take a wound" rolls after failing saves a number of times

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Niiru wrote:
Has anyone found a way to make Infiltrators useful? I've been wanting to use them instead of Scions in a list as some deepstriking interruption units (something we need as we have no vehicles). The problem I'm having is fitting them in, as they seem to be very expensive and I'm not sure they're actually capable of doing much in the way of wounds?

Otherwise I might just use Scions, and convert the models. Or use infiltrator models anyway haha.

I use Goads and Stubbers. So far, they have been good. Half the time they just take a table corner and/or objective after I mow down stuff with Robots. The other half, they suicide in to distract my opponent and sometimes do stuff. They get a lot of shots and a decent amount of attacks (provided they make the charge).

What would their ideal targets be? I assume Scions would jump in and go for big multiwound enemies and vehicles, but I'm not sure what the Goads would be best to throw at.

Goads would be used for swarmy units I'd think.

I played a game at 500 pts against Tyranids, a newbie. I built the following list:

- 1 Techpriest Dominus, Volkite Blaster & Macrostubber (which I incorrectly used at S3 instead of S4);
- 8 Vanguard, Phosphor blast pistol & Arc Maul;
- 5 Infiltrators with Taser goads & Flechette blasters;
- 1 Neutronager

He played:

- 1 Flyrant;
- 20-22 Gargoyles (can't remember, maybe less)
- 12 Termagaunts
- 12 Hormagaunts

Well I thought I had built an easy list, didn't know what he would bring or even which army. Turns out I wrecked him in three turns :/ Infiltrators with Tasers and Flechettes are DEVASTATING against 6+ saves, seriously I killed like 12 Gargoyles with 25 shots. I never tried running them with Power swords & Stubbers, which seems suited for MEQ, but just having S6 attacks with Tesla is nice enough to have. The amount of stuff you can kill with the Flechettes can be absurd as long as you're not aiming at Terminators. Overall I think they're cheap enough to be run at least once in every list, they're very good for flanking manoeuvers against low model count armies and are pretty versatile.

Another thing that in my opinion favours Vanguard for screening is the -1T debuff in CC. Combine with a dedicated CC unit like the aforementioned Infiltrators and get ready to wound T4 on a 2+ with them. It allowed me to lock the Flyrant in place and with the two Vanguard survivors I could debuff him long enough for the Infiltrators to wound him on 3+ and finish him off. Don't get me wrong I still believe the Vanguards are either too expensive or just not good enough for their points, but it's just that I like the models so much and I'm short on Skitarii so I'm fitting them everywhere.

I hope we'll have a Forge-World tactic that revolves around radiation or something, I'd like to play such a themed army. Really want to play my mobile gunline too, so here's to my expectations for the codex.

Also we really need a cheaper HQ, because we'll need those CP.

Jaynen wrote:Fulgurites were decent in the game I played in but I made the mistake of trying to run out to an objective with them. I think in larger groups it helps their voltaic field on the charge with the mortal wounds.

Also I forgot to roll my "doesnt take a wound" rolls after failing saves a number of times

Yeah, infantry without transports are slowww. Another reason why I like Dragoons. They

Niiru wrote:What would their ideal targets be? I assume Scions would jump in and go for big multiwound enemies and vehicles, but I'm not sure what the Goads would be best to throw at.

Yeah, Goads and Stubbers are great for hordes. Both Infiltrators and Scions probably won't last very long though...

Aaranis wrote:I hope we'll have a Forge-World tactic that revolves around radiation or something, I'd like to play such a themed army. Really want to play my mobile gunline too, so here's to my expectations for the codex.

Also we really need a cheaper HQ, because we'll need those CP.

Radiation would be cool. I really want detonatable vehicles though. I'd take a separate detachment for that.

I don't think the codex will give us a new HQ or cheaper Vanguard or Dominus. Instead, as I said, they will give us the relics and tactics to make choosing them over Conscripts viable.

Suzuteo wrote:

Jaynen wrote:Fulgurites were decent in the game I played in but I made the mistake of trying to run out to an objective with them. I think in larger groups it helps their voltaic field on the charge with the mortal wounds.

Also I forgot to roll my "doesnt take a wound" rolls after failing saves a number of times

Yeah, infantry without transports are slowww. Another reason why I like Dragoons. They

Niiru wrote:What would their ideal targets be? I assume Scions would jump in and go for big multiwound enemies and vehicles, but I'm not sure what the Goads would be best to throw at.

Yeah, Goads and Stubbers are great for hordes. Both Infiltrators and Scions probably won't last very long though...

Yeh true, but for 140 points I can get two squads of scions with 4 plasma guns total, which will be in rapid fire range for 8 shots total, which they'll definitly be able to fire.

For the same points I would get 5 infiltrators with tasers and flechettes... so I'd get 25 S3 shots which isn't bad, but the important part is that they need to charge into combat to get their full usefullnes into play, and succeeding that charge is... I dunno what the odds are, like 30%? Granted I could use CP to reroll the charge dice but it's still not great.

I wonder if the 15 S4 shots from the Stubcarbine actually works out better than the 25 S3 shots of the flechette...

You can check it out quickly here: http://www.mathhammer8thed.com

 Colonel Cross wrote:
You can check it out quickly here: http://www.mathhammer8thed.com

Ahha, interesting.

15 S4 shots = 1 dead space marine, or 4 dead guards.
25 S3 shots = 1 dead space marine, or 5 dead guards.

If you look at the decimals, the 25 S3 shots actually kill more of a marine than the S4 do. The extra shots seem to always be better, no matter what the toughness of the enemy is.

That's typically my strategy in this game, chuck more dice and force my opponent to make more saving throws.

Jaynen wrote:
Fulgurites were decent in the game I played in but I made the mistake of trying to run out to an objective with them. I think in larger groups it helps their voltaic field on the charge with the mortal wounds.

Also I forgot to roll my "doesnt take a wound" rolls after failing saves a number of times

How are you playing them and getting them safely into close combat? In my last 3 games they haven't done much and didn't manage to wipe a unit before dying quickly and they're in a 10 man unit.

Mr. Funktastic wrote:

Jaynen wrote:
Fulgurites were decent in the game I played in but I made the mistake of trying to run out to an objective with them. I think in larger groups it helps their voltaic field on the charge with the mortal wounds.

Also I forgot to roll my "doesnt take a wound" rolls after failing saves a number of times

How are you playing them and getting them safely into close combat? In my last 3 games they haven't done much and didn't manage to wipe a unit before dying quickly and they're in a 10 man unit.

Yeah, this sort of thing describes my fear. Fulgurites have to stay 3" in front of your Kastelans, and if the enemy's units somehow get past your Fulgurites, you have to actually kill them to get them off your Kastelans.

Suzuteo wrote:

Agamembar wrote:
So i have been working on my list for 2k and so far have the following, really love the idea of having a Knight with my Ad Mech so the hope is that it will get stuck into the opponents lines doing as much damage as possible while the Onagers and Ballistarii with Cawl put out a reliable damage. I just finished the Stryix as I had been running a Paladin before and I can switch back if I can't use Forge world models but the weapons seem cool and I love the look of the armor so I'll be happy to be able to run it. Just another knight to get and build to be able to run them as a army of their own. Maybe I might split the Dargoons into seperate squads so they can go for seperate objectives and I would have went with the Heavy Arc Rifle before on the Kataphrons as it was more shots but readinbg some reports of the Torsion Cannons and the TPD giving them some re-rolls I think I'll give them a go as well.

Spoiler:

Battalion Detachment +3CP

HQ
Belisarius Cawl [ 250pts]

Tech-Priest Dominus [135pts]: Macrostubber, Volkite Blaster

Troops
Kataphron Breachers [183pts]
Kataphron Breacher: Arc Claw , Torsion Cannon
Kataphron Breacher: Arc Claw , Torsion Cannon
Kataphron Breacher: Arc Claw , Torsion Cannon

Skitarii Rangers [78pts]
2x Ranger (Arc Rifle)
Ranger Alpha Galvanic rifle
4x Skitarii Ranger

Skitarii Vanguards [64pts]
3x Skitarii Vanguard
Vanguard (Plasma caliver)
Vanguard Alpha: Radium Carbine

Skitarii Vanguards [ 64pts]
3x Skitarii Vanguard
Vanguard (Plasma caliver)]
Vanguard Alpha: Radium Carbine

Elites [160pts]

10x Fulgurite Electro-Priest [160pts]

Fast Attack [286pts]

Ironstrider Ballistarii [150pts]
Ironstrider Ballistarius: Twin Cognis Autocannon.
Ironstrider Ballistarius: Twin Cognis Autocannon

Sydonian Dragoons [136pts]
Sydonian Dragoon
Sydonian Dragoon

Heavy Support [276pts]

Onager Dunecrawler: Cognis heavy stubber, Icarus Array , Smoke Launchers
Onager Dunecrawler: Cognis heavy stubber, Icarus Array, Smoke Launchers

Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment
500pts

Questoris Knight Styrix : Graviton crusher , Volkite chieorovile . Hekaton siege claw w/ twin rad-cleanser

Total: [1998pts]

As I have four of the Kastelans models with flamers and fists I hope they get a bit of boost in the codex as that would be fun to throw into a enemy line.

Torsion Cannons? Do they work without Holy Requisitioner at all?

I feel that they have a better chance now that they get a re-roll and healing from the TPD, to be fair I agree the 1 shot from the torsion cannons might not be worth the points and would probably switch back to the Heavy Arc Rilfes.
Hopefully the codex will help them a bit as they are expensive but I feel like they an stick around longer than the standard skitarii troops and prove a bit more useful in the long run. that said I can swap them out for another 5 man vanguard and an inflitrator squad easily enough.

Suzuteo wrote:

Mr. Funktastic wrote:

Jaynen wrote:
Fulgurites were decent in the game I played in but I made the mistake of trying to run out to an objective with them. I think in larger groups it helps their voltaic field on the charge with the mortal wounds.

Also I forgot to roll my "doesnt take a wound" rolls after failing saves a number of times

How are you playing them and getting them safely into close combat? In my last 3 games they haven't done much and didn't manage to wipe a unit before dying quickly and they're in a 10 man unit.

Yeah, this sort of thing describes my fear. Fulgurites have to stay 3" in front of your Kastelans, and if the enemy's units somehow get past your Fulgurites, you have to actually kill them to get them off your Kastelans.

That strategy has worked for me in at least two games. They are a speedbump that you need to charge, because if you get close and don't charge, they will slam in with mortal wounds. 5++/5+++ also makes them surprisingly resilient to the type of firepower I have seen come at them - as so much firepower goes to the robots and Dunecralwers, it is unreal. I still have only once been able to get their improved save though and against anything with CC abilities, they are pretty doomed. Still, for what they do and their price, they are not awful.

I didn't use the priests for screening, I had them running up a table edge to an objective. My opponent brought in a 3 man unit of the deepstriking primaris guys. I ended up moving something I don't remember what maybe one of the Kastellans to be able to fire at those and wounded them then I charged and finished off the last marine with the priests to get the save.

I had already lost 2 of my 5 priests to fire from a tactical squad however

Jaynen wrote:
I didn't use the priests for screening, I had them running up a table edge to an objective. My opponent brought in a 3 man unit of the deepstriking primaris guys. I ended up moving something I don't remember what maybe one of the Kastellans to be able to fire at those and wounded them then I charged and finished off the last marine with the priests to get the save.

I had already lost 2 of my 5 priests to fire from a tactical squad however

I never roll with less than 10 dudes. They are T3 1 wound each, despite their saves, so a 5-man unit isn't going to have much longevity.

Also, I tend to let my Dragoons go chasing objectives far from my deployment and leave my Fulgurites for holding down the fort. So far, that has worked for me rather well.

Yeah I got a good deal on 5 or I would definitely run 10 that is my plan anyway

Cant have all units doing all roles in a Table.

Robots must be dealts from your enemy and the best is to kill them melee.Especially if you play your Protocols properly.You dont have to Change Aegis immediately and against all enemies round2.

IF they come for your robots then Dragoons will screen .Cawl will screen.Datasmith will even intervean. Robots cant be get in melee before 3rd round.

Then priest come to finish up what Cawl/TPD have soften or dragoons even. Their D6 mortal wound on charge and they 12+attacks never use them lower than 6 in a unit preffered 10-20man.

If Dragoons are not used as screener then they are still Fast unit better for objectives clearing 5 man campers etc.

Onagers ,laser ,icarus , lascannons , sniper must deal enemy lascannons generally the big threat of your robots.

This is basic for Ad Mech since if you manage to get your enemy all within 36 range of your robots game over .You ll clear obj etc easy. Dont forget to do so you must focus enemy threats for robots fast. like lascannons.

Either way you ll need Tempestus infiltrators or a plan that will deal anything out of 48 range camping. Same goes for a big threat maybe enemy onagers. Gettign enemy onagers in cc is good .How will you do it with no deep strike ,fast unit ?? Maybe if you playfirst can reduce the threat but you wont go first.

Get you army facing a pure core ad mech and then make your list. IF i have 6 onagers 4 dragoons 4 kastelans and a Cawl etc etc. How you gonna win? With knight? you wont.

Yeah, a large part of the game is getting your Kastelans into position to control multiple objectives, then just keeping the enemy off of them.

There aren't too many threats with more than 56" range (7-11W Crawlers can move 8" and shoot without penalty). I do worry about fast 48" range units like Razorbacks and Taurox Primes though. That's when Dragoons become SUPER important. Every fall back you force is another turn you get to shoot. Every disembark you force is an opportunity to totally slaughter a 5 or 10-man squad.

But yeah, I still think the best Imperium Soup alternatives are Knights, Scions, and Conscripts.

I plan to run both scions, a taurox prime, and a knight.

But now I have to consider the warden vs crusader debate. Still leaning towards the thermal cannon crusader. But also debating the missile launchers points.

Thing is a second tempestor prime/command squad/scions squad and Taurox are tempting too

Jaynen wrote:
I plan to run both scions, a taurox prime, and a knight.

But now I have to consider the warden vs crusader debate. Still leaning towards the thermal cannon crusader. But also debating the missile launchers points.

Thing is a second tempestor prime/command squad/scions squad and Taurox are tempting too

If it makes the decision easier, the Stormspear is really, really good; it should cost 60 points for what it does, and you won't regret taking it, even if it bumps the point count to 557. I am just personally averse to sinking more points on a Crusader than I need to.

That being said, don't underestimate the Gauntlet. 16 Strength lets you peel open vehicles like cheap tin cans.

Suzuteo wrote:
From what we saw in C:SM, I don't foresee too many major changes. My guess? Stratagems, tactics, and relics; points adjustments in underused units and underpowered weapons; and MAYBE a few rule changes.

I doubt they will give us a transport. Forge World might... one day...

They definitely will give us "Chapter Tactics" for Forge Worlds. This may finally give us a good reason to take a second Dominus, since all units would have to be drawn from the same forge world to use a tactic.

On that note, I don't think there will be points changes for Skitarii or TPD, but they will get buffs from the aforementioned tactics, stratagems, and relics to justify their cost. (The same will probably push Imperial Guard regiments over the line so that not everything will be Conscript spam.) I personally look forward to the 8E Arcana Mechanicum.

I think they will be using this opportunity to update Knights. The Questor Mechanicus may or may not be its own new faction keyword with its own tactics.

Other stuff:
-Lower cost for Kataphrons
-Lower cost for Servo Arms
-Improvement to Arc weapons
-Improvement to Taser weapons (AP for Lance, another attack for Goad?)
-Improvement to Torsion Cannon
-Improvement to Phosphor Serpenta

I think GW's plan is to only put anything in the codex that is ready on codex release date. With the new method being to include the rules in the box, they no longer have to have the rules in the codex. They can just release a new model whenever they want, and you get the rules by picking up the box. It gives them a lot more flexibility in their release schedule. Or maybe I'm just optimistic. hah.

I'm struggling to find reasons to take infiltrators / vanguard in my army list.

A unit of 5 with pistols aren't bad, they come with a lot of shots, but the taser goad with no AP seems lackluster. They just seem a bit expensive.

Though saying that, for the same points I could get 10 scions with a total of 4 plasma guns... which wouldn't actually do more damage against most units. Same number of wounds too.

Not sure.

130 pts for 5 infiltrators with flechette and taser goads
8" move 3+ws 3+bs 4S 3T 2W 2A 6+ invuln
25 s3 ap 0 1 dmg shots
10 taser goad hits?

Its 106 pts for a Tempestor Prime and a command squad with 4 plasma. But for another 66 you can get the scions with 2 plasma plus the tempestus with the plasma pistol.

And the Tempestor means you have reroll capability, or double move etc

Jaynen wrote:
130 pts for 5 infiltrators with flechette and taser goads
8" move 3+ws 3+bs 4S 3T 2W 2A 6+ invuln
25 s3 ap 0 1 dmg shots
10 taser goad hits?

Its 106 pts for a Tempestor Prime and a command squad with 4 plasma. But for another 66 you can get the scions with 2 plasma plus the tempestus with the plasma pistol.

And the Tempestor means you have reroll capability, or double move etc

I'm not sure if your maths there is in favour of the infiltrators or the tempestus haha. 25 pistol shots (so like 17 hits) + 10 taser hits sounds like a lot from just 5 models. The Scions would be putting out 12 plasma shots, so 8 hits, plus maybe 3 or 4 lasgun hits. Good against high-wound enemies I guess?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok so... I've been going through some of my other units that I like (fluffwise or modelwise at least) looking for an alternative to infiltrators that fills the same kind of niche. And I came across the Sisters Seraphim.

Bare with me while I go through this, as I'm actually not sure if one wins out over the other haha.

I'll work out for roughly equal points costs. A basic taser squad of 5 infiltrators is 135 points. A basic squad of 10 seraphim (and giving the superior a power sword + plasma pistol) adds up to 121 points. So the comparison:

Weapons:
Infiltrators - 5xtaser goads, 5xflechettes.
Seraphim - 18xbolt pistols, 1x plasma pistol, 1x power sword

You can also swap 4 of those pistols for inferno pistols or hand flamers, but cos the ranges on those are only 6" they dont work after deepstriking, so I ignored them for now. I'll come back to this later.

Stats:
A lot of their stats are the same, but the ones that are different are -
Movement -
Both have the same deepstrike rule, but Seraphim can move 12" over infiltrators 8". - Win to Seraphim

Strength -
Infiltrators have +1 strength, which is a pretty handy difference. Win for Admech.

Wounds -
Infiltrators are 2 wounds a piece, but for the points both have 10 wounds total. Infiltrators will be weaker to multi-damage weapons though. Draw

Attacks -
Same as wounds. As of the Errata, infiltrators are 2 attacks each, but theres twice as many seraphim. Draw

Leadership -
Sisters have +1 leadership. Win for the sisters.

Armour Saves -
Sisters have a 3+, which is an improvement over infiltrators 4+. They both have a 6+ invulnerable, but seraphim can re-roll failed invulnerable saves. Definite win for Seraphim.

Damage dealing! -
The important part.

Well, The infiltrators will put out 25 S3 shots, so using a standard marine as the target, thats 1.85 dead marines.

Sisters will put out 18 S4 shots, which means 2 dead marines. Add in the single plasma shot at S7 (cos why not) and it goes up to 2.15 dead marines. A win to the seraphim, just.

But then we charge into melee:

Infiltrators will put out 11 S6 attacks, with the occasional bonus hit, adding up to 2.1 dead marines.

Seraphim only have their butts to attack with (pistol butts, that is), but they still get 11 attacks, 2 of them with a power sword so that adds up to... 1.1 dead marines.


SO total damage on the deepstriking turn is:

Infiltrators - 3.95 dead beakies (edit - if you use swords, this ups to 4.95 dead marines. Big improvement.)
Seraphim - 3.25 dead mareenz

A decent win for Admech, but with the sisters being about 15 points cheaper. It's not all that far off. (Edit: with swords the damage gap is larger, with points cost gap being smaller)

But the sisters have the better armour saves, and the ability to re-roll failed invulnerables, so they are more likely to survive (I think).

True, canticles can give the infiltrators +1 to their armour save for a turn, but Celeste can give seraphim +1 to their invulnerable saves too (though that's a whole other investment)

However, and one final thing to point out for this - Seraphim can use an act of faith. Which means they can shoot their pistols twice per turn. Or move 24" in a turn. Or regain a lot model. This is pretty handy, particularly the extra round of pistol shots (though you wouldn't be able to do this on the turn they deepstrike).


So yeh. Considering Imperial Soup is an option, I thought it was worth looking at other options. While the first-turn damage output is in favour of infiltrators (just about), it seems like Seraphim (and I'm sure other similar units) are more likely to survive a couple rounds longer. Maybe.

Any thoughts? Or suggestions? Or corrections on my 5am math, which is likely to be... hilariously erroneous lol.

I need to sleep, so I'll catch up on the discussion on the 'morrow!

Edit: because swords might be the better choice, even though it means less pistol shots. Seraphim are still faster and harder to kill, but infiltrators do more damage.
Also, I didn't do the usual scions comparison, because I think scions wouldn't do that great. Their targets are more multi-wound enemies and vehicles I guess.

There was a discussion a longgg time ago about Sisters + AdMech. The lists invariably ended up being an Imperium Soup involving Cawl + 6 Crawlers, Lord Commissar + Conscripts, and Celestine + Sisters.

Here was my list. Come to think of it, I never posted it here.



The idea is to have a Conscript blob with Lord Commissar screen for Cawl and the 6 Crawlers. Dominion squads scout ahead at the start of a game; melta squads are suicide units to eliminate transports, storm bolter squads camp objectives. Celestine + Seraphim are mobile and can move through the blob to fight, grab objectives, etc. I actually personally am a bit skeptical of this, but the principles are similar to most Imperium Soup armies.

I'm sure that if I were more serious about this, I would do something with ObSec Sisters and Repressor Rhinos, but eh.

I like how the Vanguard/Ranger models look and hopefully they get some love when the Codex drops. My question is has anybody found a good method to cover the gigantic line gap on each side of the robe that makes it look like a smooth 1 piece robe?

Msolve wrote:
I like how the Vanguard/Ranger models look and hopefully they get some love when the Codex drops. My question is has anybody found a good method to cover the gigantic line gap on each side of the robe that makes it look like a smooth 1 piece robe?

I love them too, I want to field at least 30 Skitarii but that's just insane by the actual rules. As for the gaps, you could apply liquid Green Stuff, or do as I do: when assembling the two parts, put a lot of glue and assemble. Quickly wipe off the excess of glue on both sides and you should have a somewhat smoothened robe.

Never worked perfectly for me to be honest but liquid Green Stuff is the way to go.