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Well, I have been taking "baby steps" with PP this year - I got a starter set, enjoyed it and expanded my base army. I'm not going to take a wallet raping on the game though.

Sadly I do "believe there is a better game with better models, better service, and a better overall consumer experience at a cheaper price" GW and PP both just can take their excessive prices and shove 'em. The price of tin may be getting excessive, but raw material costs are only a fraction of the total cost - most of it comes from paying the people involved and making profit for the owners. If they are so up themselves that they believe that a model of a given size is worth a premium *just because* it is made by PP or GW then they have got overinflated egos IM(not so)HO. There are a million independent historicals companies out there who beat the pants off GW and PP for sculpting quality. And WM is a good game, but not *that* good. Again I have played as good or better from independents (such as Two Hour Wargames - 5150).

I can cross PP off my list of preferred suppliers now I guess!

What gets me and makes me *angry* (in the relative, internet sense of the word) is not so much the price rise itself, as the complete tosh that is used to justify it. Raw material cost is simply not a significant factor in the equation. If it was EVERY manufacturer would be doing the same - particularly the low margin/high volume ones like Old Glory. And the truth is they are not. So PP are not telling the whole truth in citing this as the main reason. The REAL reason is (because it can only be) because they reckon they can now get away with charging these new prices for the old models. The same reason GW increase their prices. THey will make more profit that way, or so they reckon.

So why should I be *nice* if they are wanting to pump more profit out of me?

I already didn't get into Hordes because I thought the prices were ridiculous. I've stayed away from anything GW apart from Ebay in recent years for the same reason. When it comes to high prices I'm in the "won't pay, won't play" brigade fair and square.

The existance of high(er) prices does not anger me. Being lied to and patronised by someone who wants to pretend to be some sort of "fellow wargamer" does!

Yeah, sure, the guys must make a profit, and if people are willing to pay premium, then good luck to 'em. Just be honest and up front about it!

If they said "well the volume sales are going through the roof, so we are increasing prices so that we can cash in on it", then I'd have more respect. If they'd even spouted some gunk about "realigning prices to mach the newer models", at least it would be believable instead of this tosh about tin prices which doesn't even make economic sense!  Even the information he presents contradicts himself - most of the price rise happened before 2004, not in the last couple of years!

If Foundry, Reaper, Old Glory, Hasslefree, etc., etc. all increase their prices and cite the tin price rise, then I'll eat my word. Until then I'll call PP "lier, lier pants on fire!" ANd go and buy cheaper, just as nice, models from someone else!

Well, Nyarly, that's interesting. I wasn't into Foundry 3 years ago so that is interesting news. However, they still maintain (on a decent sized order) a unit cost of £1 for a single infantry figure. Compare that to £2.33 for GW and a similar level for PP. Clearly tin price doesn't cover the discrepency in price between them. Neither can sculpting costs as I can't imagine Foundry pay much less for sculpting than GW which is just up the road. You are paying for IP, pure and simple, and for GW/PP to maintain their gross profit margins. At least with GW (much as I dislike them) some of that goes to maintain a set of retail outlets. With PP all that margin goes on.... what?

I hate GW's business practices with a vengeance - based on being "done over" by them (in a hobby sense) over a period of years. I have only been dealing with PP (i.e. playing WM) for a few months. But already their "Holier than thou" attitude is grating.

I'm ready to eat my words to some extent - but if the "independents" have already swallowed the price rise and yet still retain a much lower unit cost, then my conclusion remains the same:

Is GW or PP's IP worth that kind of hike, given there's nothing stopping you playing their games with cheaper proxies (or even cardboard chitties if you are ultra-cheap)? Like everyone else, I would rather play a game with "proper" miniatures. But it is ridiculous mark-ups like this that are driving me towards "generic" games which are easier to play WYSIWYG with any figures I like. Or want to take out shares in eBay...