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SilverAlien wrote:
Yeah the fact it acts like kff and you need the entire unit inside is gonna keep it from being that impressive.

Looking at the points, brigade+vanguard (or maybe outrider) seems the only logical way to deploy the army.

I think custodes will be cp starved enough they'll end up using the terminators for more deepstriking units. Also being a better way to get more axes on the field, wardens look a bit pricey for that without the advantages of the terminators.

Supreme Command of 3 bike captains maybe? I'm probably going to try it at least since I can't get one without a couple more anyway.

This release is actually starting to bile ma pish as it were. I don't really like this style of army from a background perspective. I don't really like the new 40K lore. I don't like collecting armies I'd feel obligated not to use very often because of how I feel about their lore. I'm not even that big a fan of Custodes showing up regularly in Heresy games.

But dem jetbikes tho. And the Shield-Captain build from the new robed kit is aces.

 Yodhrin wrote:
This release is actually starting to bile ma pish as it were. I don't really like this style of army from a background perspective. I don't really like the new 40K lore. I don't like collecting armies I'd feel obligated not to use very often because of how I feel about their lore. I'm not even that big a fan of Custodes showing up regularly in Heresy games.

But dem jetbikes tho. And the Shield-Captain build from the new robed kit is aces.

This is why I'm a huge fan of detachments. There's a lot of awesome armies that have models I adore but 2000 points worth just loses its luster when it starts repeating itself. It's very easy with the new system to get like 500-1000 points of awesome stuff and play around with it in one of my more established armies though.

 LunarSol wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
This release is actually starting to bile ma pish as it were. I don't really like this style of army from a background perspective. I don't really like the new 40K lore. I don't like collecting armies I'd feel obligated not to use very often because of how I feel about their lore. I'm not even that big a fan of Custodes showing up regularly in Heresy games.

But dem jetbikes tho. And the Shield-Captain build from the new robed kit is aces.

This is why I'm a huge fan of detachments. There's a lot of awesome armies that have models I adore but 2000 points worth just loses its luster when it starts repeating itself. It's very easy with the new system to get like 500-1000 points of awesome stuff and play around with it in one of my more established armies though.

Eh, even that's a bit much for me. I'm the type of crusty old grog who'll only ever use Grey Knights as a single allied Terminator squad.

I did work out how to have my cake and eat it though - a small tweak to the fluff(or at least, what I assume will be the fluff, if it turns out to be unnecessary all the better) to eliminate any silly "these super-elite functionally-immortal warriors who learn every facet of war, diplomacy, art, and culture and know every deep dark secret of the Imperium pick one single gear loadout and use only that forever and ever" stuff, and I can have my unit of robed Custodians, my unit of jetbikes, and my unit of FW Terminators, they'll just all represent the same five characters using different equipment.

So a Land Raider is now 400p and a Shadowsword is 404p seems fair. It don't get it. I know the land raider can transport 5 Custodes. But 400p? so i assume they don't compare units from one army to the units from another army.

 LunarSol wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
This release is actually starting to bile ma pish as it were. I don't really like this style of army from a background perspective. I don't really like the new 40K lore. I don't like collecting armies I'd feel obligated not to use very often because of how I feel about their lore. I'm not even that big a fan of Custodes showing up regularly in Heresy games.

But dem jetbikes tho. And the Shield-Captain build from the new robed kit is aces.

This is why I'm a huge fan of detachments. There's a lot of awesome armies that have models I adore but 2000 points worth just loses its luster when it starts repeating itself. It's very easy with the new system to get like 500-1000 points of awesome stuff and play around with it in one of my more established armies though.

If the posted points are correct, my 1000 points army will be six Terminators, a Dreadnought and three regular dudes. I suspect in the case of Custodes you won't have to worry about repetitiveness before you hit 3000 points.

Yeah, these guys aren't a problem with that at all. Still, its nice to buy one box, meaningfully change up a sizeable chunk of my list and build into Custodes as I feel like it. Much easier than buying/painting 2000 points straight away.

Well, now that I see what the squad sizes are, I am leaning toward a Battalion with an Axe Terminator Shield Captain and Trajan, two Terminator Vexillus Praetors(probably going to need to convert one so he has a Vexilla), 3x Guardian Squads (one Sword and Board and two Spear), and a Supreme Command Detachment with three Shield Captains on Jetbikes. I guess I will need to figure out the points for that.

Quick maths and from rumored point costs, around 1565 before banners are chosen.

Raulengrin wrote:
Quick maths and from rumored point costs, around 1565 before banners are chosen.

Jeez... That is a hefty amount of points. I suppose I could grab a Contemptor with the remaining points, but for like 20 models, that is a ton of points. Maybe just run the bikes as a regular squad instead. Especially with Trajan's ability to get some command points back.

The cost of the +1 attack Vexilla... Damn...

 nordsturmking wrote:
So a Land Raider is now 400p and a Shadowsword is 404p seems fair. It don't get it. I know the land raider can transport 5 Custodes. But 400p? so i assume they don't compare units from one army to the units from another army.

Best hope is FW broken custodies units and or the next Chapter Approved and get the Nurgle Deathshroud treatment! It amuses me more the 0 option contemptor has a 5++ and a 6+ where LR just lost the invuln.

 nordsturmking wrote:
So a Land Raider is now 400p and a Shadowsword is 404p seems fair. It don't get it. I know the land raider can transport 5 Custodes. But 400p? so i assume they don't compare units from one army to the units from another army.

Previously they were paying BS3 price for BS2 lascannons. I'd have to look at the full book before I judge it. It seems weird they would increase the base cost if the 5++ did go away.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Raulengrin wrote:
Quick maths and from rumored point costs, around 1565 before banners are chosen.

Jeez... That is a hefty amount of points. I suppose I could grab a Contemptor with the remaining points, but for like 20 models, that is a ton of points. Maybe just run the bikes as a regular squad instead. Especially with Trajan's ability to get some command points back.

On the plus side...least expensive army to collect!

Daedalus81 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Raulengrin wrote:
Quick maths and from rumored point costs, around 1565 before banners are chosen.

Jeez... That is a hefty amount of points. I suppose I could grab a Contemptor with the remaining points, but for like 20 models, that is a ton of points. Maybe just run the bikes as a regular squad instead. Especially with Trajan's ability to get some command points back.

On the plus side...least expensive army to collect!

That's for sure. I am looking at less than $300 for the remaining stuff I need to run the models I listed.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:
So a Land Raider is now 400p and a Shadowsword is 404p seems fair. It don't get it. I know the land raider can transport 5 Custodes. But 400p? so i assume they don't compare units from one army to the units from another army.

Previously they were paying BS3 price for BS2 lascannons. I'd have to look at the full book before I judge it. It seems weird they would increase the base cost if the 5++ did go away.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Raulengrin wrote:
Quick maths and from rumored point costs, around 1565 before banners are chosen.

Jeez... That is a hefty amount of points. I suppose I could grab a Contemptor with the remaining points, but for like 20 models, that is a ton of points. Maybe just run the bikes as a regular squad instead. Especially with Trajan's ability to get some command points back.

On the plus side...least expensive army to collect!

I have the book, it is that bad.

I dunno about the cheapest. If you did full bike army, its 420 before any discounts so possibly.

I just put together the terminators. I did a comparison (had two on the same base), using similarly posed models, and the regular guard and the terminators, eye to eye, are the same height. With weapons and shoulder pads, they look a bit (though not demonstrably) larger and bulkier on the tabletop. It's just the peaked helmet that make the guard appear taller.

looking at that picture I think everything is fine ...

str00dles1 wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:
So a Land Raider is now 400p and a Shadowsword is 404p seems fair. It don't get it. I know the land raider can transport 5 Custodes. But 400p? so i assume they don't compare units from one army to the units from another army.

Previously they were paying BS3 price for BS2 lascannons. I'd have to look at the full book before I judge it. It seems weird they would increase the base cost if the 5++ did go away.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Raulengrin wrote:
Quick maths and from rumored point costs, around 1565 before banners are chosen.

Jeez... That is a hefty amount of points. I suppose I could grab a Contemptor with the remaining points, but for like 20 models, that is a ton of points. Maybe just run the bikes as a regular squad instead. Especially with Trajan's ability to get some command points back.

On the plus side...least expensive army to collect!

I have the book, it is that bad.

I dunno about the cheapest. If you did full bike army, its 420 before any discounts so possibly.

Wait they took off the 5++??

What does it actually get over a normal raider?

2+ Lascannons.

 Desubot wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:
So a Land Raider is now 400p and a Shadowsword is 404p seems fair. It don't get it. I know the land raider can transport 5 Custodes. But 400p? so i assume they don't compare units from one army to the units from another army.

Previously they were paying BS3 price for BS2 lascannons. I'd have to look at the full book before I judge it. It seems weird they would increase the base cost if the 5++ did go away.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Raulengrin wrote:
Quick maths and from rumored point costs, around 1565 before banners are chosen.

Jeez... That is a hefty amount of points. I suppose I could grab a Contemptor with the remaining points, but for like 20 models, that is a ton of points. Maybe just run the bikes as a regular squad instead. Especially with Trajan's ability to get some command points back.

On the plus side...least expensive army to collect!

I have the book, it is that bad.

I dunno about the cheapest. If you did full bike army, its 420 before any discounts so possibly.

Wait they took off the 5++??

What does it actually get over a normal raider?

2+ BS?

BrianDavion wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:
So a Land Raider is now 400p and a Shadowsword is 404p seems fair. It don't get it. I know the land raider can transport 5 Custodes. But 400p? so i assume they don't compare units from one army to the units from another army.

Previously they were paying BS3 price for BS2 lascannons. I'd have to look at the full book before I judge it. It seems weird they would increase the base cost if the 5++ did go away.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Raulengrin wrote:
Quick maths and from rumored point costs, around 1565 before banners are chosen.

Jeez... That is a hefty amount of points. I suppose I could grab a Contemptor with the remaining points, but for like 20 models, that is a ton of points. Maybe just run the bikes as a regular squad instead. Especially with Trajan's ability to get some command points back.

On the plus side...least expensive army to collect!

I have the book, it is that bad.

I dunno about the cheapest. If you did full bike army, its 420 before any discounts so possibly.

Wait they took off the 5++??

What does it actually get over a normal raider?

2+ BS?

With the loss of the 5++ it's already not worth its old points to try and take in the new army, combined with the jump in cost I'd rather take a Vexilla Magnificum and risk walking across the board with another 7 infantry as ablative wounds that I can buy for it. Or maybe I'll just take bikes... really hating how so many of my choices are coming down to "is it better to just take bikes?" It's the sign of poor design when everything in your options is compared to one choice.

 carabine wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:
So a Land Raider is now 400p and a Shadowsword is 404p seems fair. It don't get it. I know the land raider can transport 5 Custodes. But 400p? so i assume they don't compare units from one army to the units from another army.

Previously they were paying BS3 price for BS2 lascannons. I'd have to look at the full book before I judge it. It seems weird they would increase the base cost if the 5++ did go away.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Raulengrin wrote:
Quick maths and from rumored point costs, around 1565 before banners are chosen.

Jeez... That is a hefty amount of points. I suppose I could grab a Contemptor with the remaining points, but for like 20 models, that is a ton of points. Maybe just run the bikes as a regular squad instead. Especially with Trajan's ability to get some command points back.

On the plus side...least expensive army to collect!

I have the book, it is that bad.

I dunno about the cheapest. If you did full bike army, its 420 before any discounts so possibly.

Wait they took off the 5++??

What does it actually get over a normal raider?

2+ BS?

With the loss of the 5++ it's already not worth its old points to try and take in the new army, combined with the jump in cost I'd rather take a Vexilla Magnificum and risk walking across the board with another 7 infantry as ablative wounds that I can buy for it. Or maybe I'll just take bikes... really hating how so many of my choices are coming down to "is it better to just take bikes?" It's the sign of poor design when everything in your options is compared to one choice.

And the answer is always "no" unless you want more CP.

just means in chsapter approved 2018 we can expect bike nerfs re points

Yeah is not like Adetus Custodes are in a horrible spot. Jetbikes are too cost efficient and nearly everything else is more expensive than it should. That has a easy fix.
Is not like Orks where many of the problems come from a design standpoint of the actual rules of the models, not the point costs they have.

A bike army is just better in everyway. Boring but its the best option with no allies.

Possible there could be a balance for points update in March, as that's the next time they would really touch points now. I couldn't see them leaving it the way it is til end of the Year 2018 for next Chapter approved.

As for the LR its 400 for 2 twin LC and twin HB. 2+ BS and has 6+++ instead of the 5++

For fun throw away games sure, use It. Not even at the semi completive level is it even worth using.

str00dles1 wrote:
A bike army is just better in everyway. Boring but its the best option with no allies.

Possible there could be a balance for points update in March, as that's the next time they would really touch points now. I couldn't see them leaving it the way it is til end of the Year 2018 for next Chapter approved.

As for the LR its 400 for 2 twin LC and twin HB. 2+ BS and has 6+++ instead of the 5++

For fun throw away games sure, use It. Not even at the semi completive level is it even worth using.

Where are we getting the march date for points adjustment?

Also the Land Raider used to have both the 5++ and 6+++, this isn't a trade it's a flat out nerf on a unit that needed a buff to justify its value.

Anyone know if bikes have 3 or 4 wounds? I heard the biker captain was 1 wound more than the standard captain so I'm hoping.

This thread talked about 4 wound for bikers

 Dulahan wrote:
2+ Lascannons.

Which SHOULD be costed on the weapon itself, which is consistent, but not a huge problem. Otherwise the only thing I can imagine is that they possibly costed it as if it would be in range of the 5++ vexillia? I wish I had a book in front of me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 carabine wrote:
Where are we getting the march date for points adjustment?

This:

Bikes are 4 wounds yes, 6 toughness

2+ invul for a Bike character? Dayum Boi!