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I only had the Empire army book in my hands for about two or three minutes today. Some info I gleaned:

Special Characters:

The Emperor is back complete with Hammer of Sigmar. He may be mounted on a horse, Griffon or Dragon (there is no other way to get a Dragon in your list).

The War Altar of Sigmar is back.

Kurt Helborg is back. also included are Luthor Huss and Balthasar Gelt. This is not an exhaustive list, there were other special characters.

Knights are still core choices, bsic cost 23pts.

Melee infantry cost 5pts (6 with shields) missile infantry cost 8pts.

The Steam Tank costs 300pts

There is now a Helstorm rocket battery as a rare choice...

This is as far as I got before the blueshirt realised he had left the book out.

Orlanch you are a sneeky git.

Nice job on the read, answered (and confiurmed) a few questions.

Chuck

Yeah, that is all out so far. Warseer pretty much has the entire book up in the info section now.

Ordering the big box tomorow -- will let out as much info as I can before my head splodes from an awesome reliese.

Now to work on GW's price policy.

I've had a preview book in my shop for a week or so. It's nicely done, and I'm hoping that subsequent army books continue the trend. Not a lot of huge changes, but a few more cool bits, and some things that allow you to field the army in different ways.

Similar to how Orcs are now a better army, I'm looking forward to seeing more infantry heavy melee armies. The ability to have detatchments charge into the flanks of an enemy, (even if they start from the front), when they charge along with a parent detatchment is a nasty thing to have happen to you. Set up correctly, you won't want to be charging their line, and less want them to charge into you.

Pigeon bombs for Master Engineers are cool, but hardly overly powerful. (The idea of dropping a pigeon on some woodelf character hiding behind heavy cover is fun to think about.)

I like having 6 special characters that just count as lords and heroes, and don't need an opponents permission.

Flagellants lose two attacks, but gain frenzy, still unbreakable. They also have some nifty rules for having 1 to 3 martyrs fling themselves to death on the enemy, and giving the unit some nice combat bonuses. Hatred, reroll missed to wounds, +1 combat res.

All in all a fun book

I like how if you roll a 1 the pigeon bomb flys back to you and you're in all kinds of trouble!

Flagellants being 2 pts cheaper and core if you take a priest is great. A core unbreakable unit.

The only thing in the book that hurts me is the Knights of the White Wolf. I am not sure how useful they will be now. They had a major downgrade, and to make them any good you have to make them inner circle, which then makes them a special choice. I have too many choices already to make in special...

It looks to be a great book overall. A lot of choices.

From other rumors that I have read, Kurt Helborg is a pretty mean dude. The Laurels of Victory and a Runefang? Yes, please! Though I bet he costs a ton of points.

Posted By Toreador on 12/14/2006 7:19 AM

The only thing in the book that hurts me is the Knights of the White Wolf. I am not sure how useful they will be now. They had a major downgrade, and to make them any good you have to make them inner circle, which then makes them a special choice. I have too many choices already to make in special...

To make them good you have to make them inner circle: so that goes for all Knights or what?  How is it that the WW are going to suffer so much more from being S3 instead of S4, when compared to all other Knights?  I don't see it.  So let's ignore the loss of inner circle as core for a moment, because all knights took the hit equally.  Oh, perhaps they needed to be IC so they could strike at S5 in round 2 of combat.  Well, let's hold on a second.

So they replaced their Cavalry Hammers with basic great weapons.  A major downgrade, as you put it.  Hmm.  Let's see what really happened: for the first round of combat nothing changed.  In the second round of combat, you no longer strike at +1 strength at I4.  You now strike last at +2 strength.  You've always had a 2+ armor save.  What the hell were you striking before that can now kill you?  And now, you don't even need to be IC to strike at S5 in round 2 of combat.

And another rumor floating around warseer is that WW are going to get a 2 pt decrease.

I'm sorry, but I just fail to see how this really does anything.

Great Weapons are +1str and strike last on horseback.

They are less useful.

Bigchris, the 7th ed change of GW on horseback to only being +1 strength is what sucks for White Wolves. I don't think it would have been unbalanced to let them keep cav hammers as an exception.

Yep, and no points decrease.
So if you buy the core ones, they are str 4 and strike last. No points difference, losing the str 5 hit, striking on init, AND costing the same vs other knights. I just don't see them being much of a use against anything unless they are inner circle.

Also, are cannon still special choices? I was at the GW site today and they where definatly under "rare".

I'll check again on cannons, (book is at the shop), but I'm pretty positive they are still special. Hellblaster is rare, flagelants I think, and the new Hellsomething mortar of doom.

Hmm, all of the other rumors that I have read indicate that White Wolves are now 23 points, the same as the other Knightly Orders, which would be a point reduction. In the new book there is supposed to be one entry for all the knights, and you can exchange the lance and shield for a great weapon at no change in points. I assume that this also means that WW are no longer a 0-1 choice.

I believe WW's are a separate entry, I'll check on the points. They are 0-1, but you can upgrade them to inner circle, giving you two inner circle units.

WW aren't a separate entry, all knights are now one big entry. You can either have them armed with a lance or with a double handed weapon. What you call them doesn't matter. I was thinking that I saw them as 25pts for all, but I might be mistaken. There is no limit on cav, but if you make them inner circle they become special.

I really don't like what they've done with the Steam Tank. They did exactly what said they didn't want to to do, which is make it a glorified chariot. I didn't see anything protecting it from S7 hits (though skimmed the book rather than take in full details).

I'm still disappointed that our standard Lord still is less effective in combat than a goblin, despite no longer being the Count. A 'General of the Empire' would be more combat-savvy than a goblin, I would think.

I'm still having trouble finding any kind of use for Outriders. Pistoliers can still be used as harrassment, but why pay the ton of points for cavalry with guns that can't move and fire?

Good news, though: Infantry is better just by being cheaper, and the detachment rules are unchanged, it seems.

Outriders are fast and are a nasty threat at range. If your opponent ignores them, suddenly he is getting torn up. They won't be for everyone, but they are yet again another tool in our toolbox.

What's this crap about an empire general being worse than a goblin? Stats are simply better! I don't see anything up with that...

Oops.

I've started stripping 120 flagellant models (formerly used as SOB zealots) for my new empire army.

1 warrior priest lord on war altar
3 warrior priest heroes
1 core flaggelant unit
1 rare flagellant unit
Pack the rest with state troops and detatchments lead by the priests.

Should be a tough nut to crack.

Posted By Infantryman on 12/15/2006 3:14 PM
What's this crap about an empire general being worse than a goblin? Stats are simply better! I don't see anything up with that...

I think he's comparing the stats to a Goblin Hero or Lord(?).  I know that it sticks in my craw a little for my 300+pt Wood Elf Lord to have a lower Toughness than a cheap-azz Goblin Hero.  Sometimes the WH stat system really doesn't seem to have quite the degree of granularity that it should.

 I didn't see anything protecting it from S7 hits (though skimmed the book rather than take in full details).

Well, it doesn't have the chariot special rule, and it is toughness 6.  S7 can wound it on a 3, with a -4 to armor save, but it can't be auto-destroyed.

Got the book, looks to be good though I wonder why Knights get great weapon rules and not bitz.

'cause all knights are armed with lances & hand weapons, except for White Wolf knights. White Wolf knights are armed with cavalry hammers, which used to give +2S on the charge and +1S in continuing rounds, with no initiative penalty. Now White Wolf knights count as being armed with great weapons, and the 'cavalry hammer' rule is gone, along with the pistoliers 'fusillade' rule.

I think this may indicate the Questing Knights of Bretonnia aren't going to get a special rule that allows them to keep their +2S mounted great weapons, either.

Technically there are no "White Wolf" knights, from a rules perspective; they're just knights with great weapons.

And regular knights can have great weapons too.

I'll need to reread the new rules. I didn't know knights could take great weapons now.

It's why I asked why they could take them if they didn't get bitz for them, afterall.

Mmm... just read the relevant entry (thank you FLGS) and knights now come with full plate, hand weapon & barded warhorse. They may at no cost be given either lance + shield, OR great weapons. Tasty.

The reason the knights don't come with great weapons on the sprues is, this is brand new for 7th edition. Let the converting commence!