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Pictures are not the greatest as these were done prior to a game. Thanks Honda for taking the pictures, thanks less for kicking my butt

Painting is strictly pedestrian but some of the conversions might be interesting.  The theme is an army led by a radical inquisitor, with a mix of inducted guard and warp beings who are opposites of the Ruinous Powers.  These are the demon/fantasy aspects of the list.

First:

War Altar:  Counts as defiler.  Has the same dimensions as a defiler.  The idea is for six Ogryn type spirits to be carrying the altar, which has a traitor terminator (double cross) for the reaper,  marine with flamer for the H flamer, and priest in the center to summon warp energy for the cannon.  Too bad he didn’t knock the vulture down in time.  The demons etc. are patterned more on silver and gold representing the shining side of the warp, hence GK’s and DE Cold Ones models

 

Second:

Champion of Law and Oblits: The Champion is a counts as demon prince, designed as a character killer.  He’s a normal Emp Champ with GK termie arm (the glaive’s blade broke prior to the picture erp) and warhawk wings. The Oblits are GK termies with greenstuff.  

Third:

Wolfen (Bloodletters). These are bloodletters with greenstuffed robes and cloaks, some have converted weapons, with direwolf heads. Each is named including 4 representing a homage to the doggies (past and present) in my family, and hence some have very doglike spots and such. In the center you can see the army commander (slightly) a converted Ahriman model representing the radical inquisitor.

Fourth:

Vengeances (demonette Cav).  The throught is that these are avenging spirits.  They are DE Cold Ones with greenstuff cloaks and blankets on the animals.

Lastly:

Vengeances (demonettes).  These are DE witches. The only conversion so far is one holding the head of a dead havoc.  Mainly used as I like the models and they are PG vs the demonette models which aren’t the best when rugrats are running around “mommy why is that girl naked on the lizard?”

Once I finish my two Leman Russ Vanquisher/Tiger II conversions over vacation, I’ll try to con Honda into photos of them as well.

I really like the model concepts you have going on here. The whole bright and shiny, seraphim-laced models representing Chaos is pretty cool. I can certainly picture your Champion of Law advancing to an enemy character, looking every bit as regal and awe inspiring as any angel, and striking them down with cold, dead eyes.

ForceVoid

Thank you. He's decently menacing with the glaive blade attached (working on that, its broken a few times).

Lots of neat ideas in there, especially the War Altar conglomeration and the Pup-letters. The painting and the gs cloaks are a bit rough, but they definitely work for tabletop.

A few more specific comments:
- Ogres carting the altar around is a fine idea, but I'm not a fan of the two wandering around out front, mostly because they look totally unattached. Maybe they're there to rep the front legs of the defiler's footprint, but I dunno.
- Running with the unattached theme, I wish the lads riding on the top were baseless and more integrated into the altar, though I suppose they're intended to be removable as weapons are destroyed (and they're needed elsewhere in the force )
- Really like the more dog-like bloodletters, especially the one with black & white markings, which turned out extra well.
- Finishing the bases with a unifying scheme would go a long ways to pulling all the disparate parts together a bit more.

So I dig it, quite the army. Thanks for the pics, look forward to the tanks.

- Boss Salvage

Edit: One more thing about the altar - Why put the ogre standard on side-ways like that?  To restrict the footprint of the altar vs the defiler?  I think I would have just left the standard off, with all the standards and such happening higher up on the model ... but ah well.

Those wolfletters look really cool, great idea.

Oh my god. Are you serious? If you set that down across a table from me I would just walk away. Seriously, that army is heinous. I actually want to punch my monitor it makes me so mad. And all of you who are encouraging this kind of modelling should be ashamed of yourselves.

Don't punch your monitor. Its completely innocent...mostly.

What do you not like? Mayhaps there are items that can be improved on.




Seriousness is the last refuge of those of you haven't been pushed over the edge...

I like the Altar.

Cool Bloodletter conversion... That's alot of Wolf heads...

What I don't like about the army is the fact that you can't even remotely know what half of that stuff is just by looking at it. A counts as army is supposed to still look like the army it represents. Taking a hill, surrounded by ogres with some models on top of it and saying it is a defiler is ludicrous. That is no different that using a Pepsi can. Either way I would have no clue what I was facing.
I also thing using Warhammer miniatures with no conversions and not even round bases as 40K models is a cheapo way to have an army for each system. Now you can have your Dark Elf army and also try and convince people that it is a 40K army as well! Please. If you are going to participate in the hobby, at least make an attempt at doing it properly.

1. Don't have a WFB army. Don't intend to play WFB. I admittedly like the DE cold one and witch models, and thought they would be a nice theme for similar spirits.

2. A counts as army by its nature cannot look like the armies the minis are coming from. The defiler is absolutely accurate in dimensions and sponsons weapons. Frankly I don't think anyone would mistake it for something offhand.

3. Bases are your issue for the demonettes? Good point I can fix that. I wanted something akin to the actual demonettes, but was sufficiently PG to survive munchkin scrutiny. The cavalry models come with standard cavalry bases.

4. What do you have against pepsi cans?

Alright Hatey:

"What I don't like about the army is the fact that you can't even remotely know what half of that stuff is just by looking at it."
- So I'm sure he'd tell you what's what before the game. I do this, and I stick pretty closely to WYSIWYG. Also, only really the defiler and the mounted demonettes require pointing out in my mind (I would assume the cold one knights were roughriders, for example)

"A counts as army is supposed to still look like the army it represents."
- Um, no. The point of "counts as" armies is to allow players to use models and ideas that don't have a predetermined 'place' in 40k. This adds a wonderful depth and variety to the Warhammer game as a whole, as players can build and actually use models they want to, without breaking the rules that allow for fair play.

"Taking a hill, surrounded by ogres with some models on top of it and saying it is a defiler is ludicrous."
- ... or totally unique and interesting?

"That is no different that using a Pepsi can."
- Actually it's a lot different, at the least because it's made of GW Sanctioned Products (that cost $$$, that's no cheap stand-in like the can) and a lot of effort has been put into making it fit the profile of the 'legitimate' defiler model. The can is a sad joke out of TSOALR.

"Either way I would have no clue what I was facing."
- So ask.

"I also thing using Warhammer miniatures with no conversions and not even round bases as 40K models is a cheapo way to have an army for each system."
- Cheapo? You looked at how much cold one knights or withes cost compared to daemonettes, mounted or not? Also, older Chaos armies were filled with square bases, as demons weren't specifically supported for 40k back then ...

"Now you can have your Dark Elf army and also try and convince people that it is a 40K army as well!"
- I'd be impressed, but really don't think that's happening here. Could be wrong.

"Please. If you are going to participate in the hobby, at least make an attempt at doing it properly."
- Aye, like respecting the vision, abilities and armies of other players. You know, the opponents who actually build and field the armies you (theoretically) game against.

Out.

- Boss Salvage

You've got some nice things going for you and I certainly give you kudos for thinkign differently!

However, there are a couple of things with which I (unfortunately) agree with hatey here.

Mostly, it's the lack of continuity between the different units. You've got some dark elves happening...a little ogre action some wolves...well and good, but I don't get any sense of unity or theme behind them all. Possibly with a unified paint scheme and basing this would all go away.

There is also the issue of greenstuff: I think that you went overboard on the cold ones and a little on the obliterators. The blankets on the cold ones just seem like empty space that disfigure the model. If the blankets could be made even and square and/or they were patterned (ie chainmail-type look) I think that they would add greatly to the models. The cloaks may be a bit much too...have you looked into using glade guard cloaks instead?

Lastly: the altar. I like it. It's a cool idea. However, I think that it would benefit from a couple of things.
1) Integrate the termie/marine/priest. As is they all look slapped together. Could you make the termie have a flamer instead of the axe and cut the marine all together?

2) It seems weird that the ogres are carrying around a hill. Can you make it look less natural and more 40k? Or even Skaven-style screaming bell unnatural?

I hope that it works out and I think that it's a great concept!
cheers

Good points ED. These are all points to consider.

"A counts as army is supposed to still look like the army it represents."
- Um, no. The point of "counts as" armies is to allow players to use models and ideas that don't have a predetermined 'place' in 40k. This adds a wonderful depth and variety to the Warhammer game as a whole, as players can build and actually use models they want to, without breaking the rules that allow for fair play.

You obviously have no idea what a Counts as Army is supposed to be then. The creation of this rule was to allow some spectacular conversions and work that while being slightly outside the norm, they could easily be used for to represent a specific army. Things like the Adeptus Custodes as a GK/Marine force. Or creating an all Rat Ogre army and using Ogre Kingdoms rules (with all the proper weapon options modeled, armor shown, etc.).
Saying that a Terminator holding an assault cannon (even with the end altered) is a Defiler Reaper Autocannon is just laughable. And how a group of Green Ogres surrounding a hill represent a defiler's legs is beyond me.
But the Defiler aside, the Witch Elves and Cold Ones are just proxies. There is nothing there making them stand apart to be something else. THis is not what the Counts As Rules were intended to be.

Creativity and modelling are part of the hobby. Other people have different view of what their army should look like. This is a free country and no one have to accept YOUR view.

Jfrazell is looking for constructive criticism.  If you don't like his work then go troll somewhere else.

Take a chill pill.

Mostly i agree with etherdude's second point, about the altar being a hill. Does it really have to have the same footprint as the Defiler? something like a converted screaming bell dragged by ogres would me awesome. probably easier to carry and store as well, so you could integrate the models more.

I love the champion of law conversion btw...

Criticism? you might want to go a little lighter on the paints. i have the same problem of wanting to get it all done quickly, but you end up with a much better effect if you go a little easier..

A screaming bell dragged by ogres is an interesting concept. Is the screaming bell and actual model or is that a concept?

PaintI'm sure you're right. This purely tabletop only and I freely admit my 8 year runs rings around me.

Nothing against creativity and imagination.

Though if I encountered that "army" in any gaming situation outside of a buddy's basement gameroom, all I could say is WTF?

<<<>>> Um, no. The point of "counts as" armies is to allow players to use models and ideas that don't have a predetermined 'place' in 40k. This adds a wonderful depth and variety to the Warhammer game as a whole, as players can build and actually use models they want to, without breaking the rules that allow for fair play <<<>>>

I get the whole "counts-as" attempt.  However as was mentioned, there is little to no coherence across the "army".   I have seen a large number and wide variety of "counts-as" armys (outside of the 'counts-as" armies by Dave Taylor), and everyone of them had a unify appearance and theme.  This was typically done in the selection of the models used, the way the models were converted, and the way they were painted and based.  Unfortunately this "army" looks more like you reached into a bag of random minis from several systems, pulled out several handfuls and tried to make up something.

Also I actually think that there is a big difference between "Counts-as" and "Proxy Models", and most of the model in this "army" fit the latter category.

<<<>>>"Taking a hill, surrounded by ogres with some models on top of it and saying it is a defiler is ludicrous."
- ... or totally unique and interesting<<<>>>

Ah, right.  What was he thinking?  All you Empire Spearmen, pick up that building ruin over there (yes, just put it on top of your spears), and some of you Imperial Guardsmen with the heavy weapons get inside -  sweet, instant Land Raider!

<<<>>>"Please. If you are going to participate in the hobby, at least make an attempt at doing it properly."
- Aye, like respecting the vision, abilities and armies of other players. You know, the opponents who actually build and field the armies you (theoretically) game against <<<>>>

And then when theoretically gaming against said creation I get to spend every turn repeatedly asking "What is that hill those ogres are carrying supposed to be again?", "... and that unit of cold one is supposed to be what exactly, and armed how?", "... and your leaders are which ones and armed with what again?"  But maybe it's just me?  (Though I do have yet to face any similar hodgepodge "counts-as" creation so that may  indeed be the case.)

<<<>>> Creativity and modelling are part of the hobby. Other people have different view of what their army should look like. This is a free country and no one have to accept YOUR view. <<<>>>

Very true, provided that army never leaves the home gameroom.  Otherwise there is the chance that I may end up seeing that creation setting up on the other side of the table from me (at which point I will probably start put my minis back in the case).  Most definitely not something I would play against at an event I payed money to enter, and if encounterd at my LGS I would simply move on to another opponent (in order to reduce the level of my frustration and confusion about what I was actually playing against).  But once again, that is probably just me.

YMMV

 

Freakazoid

http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99110206059&orignav=13

is the new one... you could try and get your hands on the bigger older one...

http://www.rengels.de/warhammer/gallery/skaven/image/bell.jpg

which you could probably get for a steal on ebay...

Posted By torealis on 12/14/2006 11:35 AM
http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99110206059&orignav=13

is the new one... you could try and get your hands on the bigger older one...

http://www.rengels.de/warhammer/gallery/skaven/image/bell.jpg

which you could probably get for a steal on ebay...

Now thats a gnarly bugger. Its sick and twisted and I like it.

I like the general idea of the war altar a lot, and using Ogres to carry it around. The modeling is kind of improvised here. But it's definitely a novel idea that's worth taking as a starting point and running with.
I like the inquisitor, too. One could try a similar approach to create a another concept for an arch-heretic: as evil, but hypnotically beautiful and seductive, luring his followers to enraptured worship and damnation. (Not really what you were going for, I realize. But again, a neat idea that's got me scheming.)
Thanks for posting the pictures. Well worth sharing, IMO.

edited: grammar

I like your idea tinfoil concerning the arch heretic as seducer. Thats beyond my capacity but if its something you pursue please post some pics.