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The dark Eldar fluff was rubbish until Jes and Phil fleshed it out.
The direction they seem to be going with the Eldar is even more fractious than before with elements of all factions supporting or opposing the new ideology. Looking at the developments so far the moves that have been made are opening the story up rather than closing it off. I've no idea about the rules but purely from a setting persective there are already a lot more possibilities. With chaos free from the cadian gate there is a lot more options for them to appear in stories across the galaxy.
Likewise the Eldar will have many more potential combinations. A craftworld Eldar versus craftworld Eldar battle makes sense now.
The 40k setting is changing but I don't see any of the changes they have made so far to be reducing the scope of the setting, quite the opposite.

 nintura wrote:
Jesus the bitching is impressive. People are so afraid of change it hurts. I had to double check the URL to make sure this wasn't whineseer.

There's change, and there's burning it down.

Rearranging the furniture is change. Taking a wrecking ball to the whole house...well, its still change but its a rather extreme way to go about it.
Its one of the reasons I don't like the new Necron lore or AoS; it just went too far. Its as if GW are incapable of moderation, so they have to make all of their changes as drastic as possible.

Now, is that what they are doing to 40k as a whole? I dunno. I mean, they did blow up Cadia, but unless I'm mistaken, Cadia was in the process of getting destroyed by the 13th Black Crusade for a while, so its not completely without precedence. Too early to tell what's going to happen with this Ynnead thing. There's some interesting concepts, but knowing current GW, they have a tendency to poorly execute good ideas.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 nintura wrote:
Jesus the bitching is impressive. People are so afraid of change it hurts. I had to double check the URL to make sure this wasn't whineseer.

There's change, and there's burning it down.

Rearranging the furniture is change. Taking a wrecking ball to the whole house...well, its still change but its a rather extreme way to go about it.
Its one of the reasons I don't like the new Necron lore or AoS; it just went too far. Its as if GW are incapable of moderation, so they have to make all of their changes as drastic as possible.

Now, is that what they are doing to 40k as a whole? I dunno. I mean, they did blow up Cadia, but unless I'm mistaken, Cadia was in the process of getting destroyed by the 13th Black Crusade for a while, so its not completely without precedence. Too early to tell what's going to happen with this Ynnead thing. There's some interesting concepts, but knowing current GW, they have a tendency to poorly execute good ideas.

THE END IS NIGH! REPENT! REPENT!! REPENT!!! DOOM AND GLOOM, WOE IS US!

Look man, it's not burning anything down. These are names. When people get upset that something changes, that means they have some form of attachment, meaning they did something right. But that will get stale. Destroying Cadia LITERALLY means nothing. It's a name. It's a story. Their job is to get you to feel something so you become invested. Their next job is to get you attached to the next part of the story. But destroying something doesn't do any harm because it's a name. Now, that being said, if they retcon the planet from the story, that's a different matter. But this is story only, it harms nothing. I hate the space wolves. Damaging their world and making them a space fleet is perfectly good though. It added more to their background, so when we go into our little groups and talk about space wolves, now we can talk about how they lost their home world.

This Ynnead thing changes nothing. It's another model on the board with XYZ stats. There's no reason to get mad at what it does in the story because it doesn't have any real change to either story or game.

I still don't know how I feel about Eldar getting all new characters when so many characters already exist and could be flushed out. I get that it's a big galaxy and all, but so many playable characters have either gone stale (Yriel) or just don't have rules anymore (like 6-7 DE ones).
I didn't even like Yriel until someone pointed out the Valendor storyline. With Veilwalker playing about in the Gathering Storm storyline, I do not think we have heard the last of Yriel - mark my words.

What is worse, instead of 'unifying' the Aeldari, we are getting a new sub faction instead - The Ynnari. Freakin' Eldar 'undead'.

I'm saying it now - the new Ynnead Psychic discipline will probably have a power or powers that Summon Eldar.
If GSC can summon non-deamons, why not Eldar? Cuz Scatterbikes were bad enough, lets make them free to be Summoned. Freaking...Stupid.
Now I doubt you'll get to summon anything other than Guardians, Wyches or Troupes, but still. It's dumb

-

 nintura wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 nintura wrote:
Jesus the bitching is impressive. People are so afraid of change it hurts. I had to double check the URL to make sure this wasn't whineseer.

There's change, and there's burning it down.

Rearranging the furniture is change. Taking a wrecking ball to the whole house...well, its still change but its a rather extreme way to go about it.
Its one of the reasons I don't like the new Necron lore or AoS; it just went too far. Its as if GW are incapable of moderation, so they have to make all of their changes as drastic as possible.

Now, is that what they are doing to 40k as a whole? I dunno. I mean, they did blow up Cadia, but unless I'm mistaken, Cadia was in the process of getting destroyed by the 13th Black Crusade for a while, so its not completely without precedence. Too early to tell what's going to happen with this Ynnead thing. There's some interesting concepts, but knowing current GW, they have a tendency to poorly execute good ideas.

THE END IS NIGH! REPENT! REPENT!! REPENT!!! DOOM AND GLOOM, WOE IS US!

Look man, it's not burning anything down. These are names. When people get upset that something changes, that means they have some form of attachment, meaning they did something right. But that will get stale. Destroying Cadia LITERALLY means nothing. It's a name. It's a story. Their job is to get you to feel something so you become invested. Their next job is to get you attached to the next part of the story. But destroying something doesn't do any harm because it's a name. Now, that being said, if they retcon the planet from the story, that's a different matter. But this is story only, it harms nothing. I hate the space wolves. Damaging their world and making them a space fleet is perfectly good though. It added more to their background, so when we go into our little groups and talk about space wolves, now we can talk about how they lost their home world.

This Ynnead thing changes nothing. It's another model on the board with XYZ stats. There's no reason to get mad at what it does in the story because it doesn't have any real change to either story or game.

I didn't say they were burning 40k down. You may want to read the last point of my post more carefully.
I do understand why people are nervous, and why they may think that, as there has been a precedence. Whether or not they will do it again is another matter entirely.

To me it just looks like they are wrapping up some loose ends of the plot, with the 13th Black Crusade going on since the 90s (or was it 2000s? Its been going for a very long time), and this prophecy of Ynnead hanging around but not going anywhere.
Until Sol itself gets attacked and several major factions gets extinct, then I think 40k might be safe.

 Galef wrote:
I still don't know how I feel about Eldar getting all new characters when so many characters already exist and could be flushed out. I get that it's a big galaxy and all, but so many playable characters have either gone stale (Yriel) or just don't have rules anymore (like 6-7 DE ones).
I didn't even like Yriel until someone pointed out the Valendor storyline. With Veilwalker playing about in the Gathering Storm storyline, I do not think we have heard the last of Yriel - mark my words.

What is worse, instead of 'unifying' the Aeldari, we are getting a new sub faction instead - The Ynnari. Freakin' Eldar 'undead'.

I'm saying it now - the new Ynnead Psychic discipline will probably have a power or powers that Summon Eldar.
If GSC can summon non-deamons, why not Eldar? Cuz Scatterbikes were bad enough, lets make them free to be Summoned. Freaking...Stupid.
Now I doubt you'll get to summon anything other than Guardians, Wyches or Troupes, but still. It's dumb

-

I don't mind some old characters being AWOL (not being supported by GW) or killed has they can't keep adding new things without deleting some old stuff. The challenge is making the new guy's compelling enough to get ''emotionnaly'' attached to them (without benefiting from years and years of fluff has older character do). As for a summon Eldar spell, I've hated it for the GSC and sure hope they won't replicate it for the Eldar (though if it summons dead eldar/eldar spirit, it could be pretty cool if they have a special rule that represent it).

 nintura wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 nintura wrote:
Jesus the bitching is impressive. People are so afraid of change it hurts. I had to double check the URL to make sure this wasn't whineseer.

There's change, and there's burning it down.

Rearranging the furniture is change. Taking a wrecking ball to the whole house...well, its still change but its a rather extreme way to go about it.
Its one of the reasons I don't like the new Necron lore or AoS; it just went too far. Its as if GW are incapable of moderation, so they have to make all of their changes as drastic as possible.

Now, is that what they are doing to 40k as a whole? I dunno. I mean, they did blow up Cadia, but unless I'm mistaken, Cadia was in the process of getting destroyed by the 13th Black Crusade for a while, so its not completely without precedence. Too early to tell what's going to happen with this Ynnead thing. There's some interesting concepts, but knowing current GW, they have a tendency to poorly execute good ideas.

THE END IS NIGH! REPENT! REPENT!! REPENT!!! DOOM AND GLOOM, WOE IS US!

GW already pulled that sort of thing with WHFB. If people are nervous, is understandable. I think you cannot intellectually afford such contempt.

Also, I find amusing all the talks about the "advancing story" while whole sub-faction are reserved an hasty treatment. Cadians, as an example.

I do wonder which treatment the Phoenix Lord will deserve...

 Galef wrote:
I still don't know how I feel about Eldar getting all new characters when so many characters already exist and could be flushed out. I get that it's a big galaxy and all, but so many playable characters have either gone stale (Yriel) or just don't have rules anymore (like 6-7 DE ones).
I didn't even like Yriel until someone pointed out the Valendor storyline. With Veilwalker playing about in the Gathering Storm storyline, I do not think we have heard the last of Yriel - mark my words.

What is worse, instead of 'unifying' the Aeldari, we are getting a new sub faction instead - The Ynnari. Freakin' Eldar 'undead'.

I'm saying it now - the new Ynnead Psychic discipline will probably have a power or powers that Summon Eldar.
If GSC can summon non-deamons, why not Eldar? Cuz Scatterbikes were bad enough, lets make them free to be Summoned. Freaking...Stupid.
Now I doubt you'll get to summon anything other than Guardians, Wyches or Troupes, but still. It's dumb

-

Invent something stupid they might do
Insert stupid thing there's no indication of them doing into even more stupid scenario
Complain about how stupid that fictitious thing is.

Yup. Good stuff.

I'm saying it now, space marines in 8th will have a 2+ save. Then they'll probably have a command ability to reroll saves. It'll probably only work on tacticsls but still. It's dumb

Mr. CyberPunk wrote:
As for a summon Eldar spell, I've hated it for the GSC and sure hope they won't replicate it for the Eldar (though if it summons dead eldar/eldar spirit, it could be pretty cool if they have a special rule that represent it).

The details leaked form the WD seem to indicate that the Avatar of Ynnead can indeed "resurrect fallen Eldar". I hope this just means that he adds extra attacks or FNP to nearby units, but most likely it means he'll have a "Summon Eldar" conjuration power. Cuz Eldar haters really needed more to complain about. Thanks GeeDubs, thanks a lot.

-

New stuff looks good but I'm not liking the big swirly guy.. it's that 1 single extra large horn that ruins it for me.

Mr. CyberPunk wrote:

 Galef wrote:
I still don't know how I feel about Eldar getting all new characters when so many characters already exist and could be flushed out. I get that it's a big galaxy and all, but so many playable characters have either gone stale (Yriel) or just don't have rules anymore (like 6-7 DE ones).
I didn't even like Yriel until someone pointed out the Valendor storyline. With Veilwalker playing about in the Gathering Storm storyline, I do not think we have heard the last of Yriel - mark my words.

What is worse, instead of 'unifying' the Aeldari, we are getting a new sub faction instead - The Ynnari. Freakin' Eldar 'undead'.

I'm saying it now - the new Ynnead Psychic discipline will probably have a power or powers that Summon Eldar.
If GSC can summon non-deamons, why not Eldar? Cuz Scatterbikes were bad enough, lets make them free to be Summoned. Freaking...Stupid.
Now I doubt you'll get to summon anything other than Guardians, Wyches or Troupes, but still. It's dumb

-

I don't mind some old characters being AWOL (not being supported by GW) or killed has they can't keep adding new things without deleting some old stuff. The challenge is making the new guy's compelling enough to get ''emotionnaly'' attached to them (without benefiting from years and years of fluff has older character do). As for a summon Eldar spell, I've hated it for the GSC and sure hope they won't replicate it for the Eldar (though if it summons dead eldar/eldar spirit, it could be pretty cool if they have a special rule that represent it).

If they give Eldar WBB or a similar ability that allows them to "resurrect", I'll be very annoyed.

The only thing I'm really concerned about here are the Aspects. They're what attracted me to Eldar all those years ago in the intro article in WD Fartoolongago, even if it took me until fairly recently (by starting to play the game again) to actually start them seriously. They ARE the Eldar to me, they're visually distinct, there's genuinely very little like them out there *that I'm aware of* (unlike your 'space knights', generic human SF trooper and various types of 'xenomorph') and the idea of seeing them slowly disappear in favour of a more 'hybrid' look, like the Triumvirate's Sword, does give me the fear, a little bit. The recent talk of finecast and lack of updates hasn't really helped there.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not about to flounce, or scream, or make a big drama. But a distinctive, enjoyable and aesthetically pleasing (intellectually and artistically) part of the 40k universe will die a little for me, if they do go.

Still. Here's hoping, eh?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 nintura wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 nintura wrote:
Jesus the bitching is impressive. People are so afraid of change it hurts. I had to double check the URL to make sure this wasn't whineseer.

There's change, and there's burning it down.

Rearranging the furniture is change. Taking a wrecking ball to the whole house...well, its still change but its a rather extreme way to go about it.
Its one of the reasons I don't like the new Necron lore or AoS; it just went too far. Its as if GW are incapable of moderation, so they have to make all of their changes as drastic as possible.

Now, is that what they are doing to 40k as a whole? I dunno. I mean, they did blow up Cadia, but unless I'm mistaken, Cadia was in the process of getting destroyed by the 13th Black Crusade for a while, so its not completely without precedence. Too early to tell what's going to happen with this Ynnead thing. There's some interesting concepts, but knowing current GW, they have a tendency to poorly execute good ideas.

THE END IS NIGH! REPENT! REPENT!! REPENT!!! DOOM AND GLOOM, WOE IS US!

Look man, it's not burning anything down. These are names. When people get upset that something changes, that means they have some form of attachment, meaning they did something right. But that will get stale. Destroying Cadia LITERALLY means nothing. It's a name. It's a story. Their job is to get you to feel something so you become invested. Their next job is to get you attached to the next part of the story. But destroying something doesn't do any harm because it's a name. Now, that being said, if they retcon the planet from the story, that's a different matter. But this is story only, it harms nothing. I hate the space wolves. Damaging their world and making them a space fleet is perfectly good though. It added more to their background, so when we go into our little groups and talk about space wolves, now we can talk about how they lost their home world.

This Ynnead thing changes nothing. It's another model on the board with XYZ stats. There's no reason to get mad at what it does in the story because it doesn't have any real change to either story or game.

I didn't say they were burning 40k down. You may want to read the last point of my post more carefully.
I do understand why people are nervous, and why they may think that, as there has been a precedence. Whether or not they will do it again is another matter entirely.

To me it just looks like they are wrapping up some loose ends of the plot, with the 13th Black Crusade going on since the 90s (or was it 2000s? Its been going for a very long time), and this prophecy of Ynnead hanging around but not going anywhere.
Until Sol itself gets attacked and several major factions gets extinct, then I think 40k might be safe.

Lol I'm sorry man, I wasn't targetting you directly, just being sarcastic over all the content in the last few pages.

Pilum wrote:
The only thing I'm really concerned about here are the Aspects. They're what attracted me to Eldar all those years ago in the intro article in WD Fartoolongago, even if it took me until fairly recently (by starting to play the game again) to actually start them seriously. They ARE the Eldar to me, they're visually distinct, there's genuinely very little like them out there *that I'm aware of* (unlike your 'space knights', generic human SF trooper and various types of 'xenomorph') and the idea of seeing them slowly disappear in favour of a more 'hybrid' look, like the Triumvirate's Sword, does give me the fear, a little bit. The recent talk of finecast and lack of updates hasn't really helped there.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not about to flounce, or scream, or make a big drama. But a distinctive, enjoyable and aesthetically pleasing (intellectually and artistically) part of the 40k universe will die a little for me, if they do go.

Still. Here's hoping, eh?

I don't think they'll get rid of the CWE and the aspects entirely. It seems that while Ynnead draws followers from both Dark Eldar and CWE, there's still a bunch of Eldar who distrust him.
I think the Ynnari will just be another offshoot of the Eldar, that will incorporate some, but not all, elements of DE and Eldar, with some of their own unique stuff.

Ya know, the more I think about it, the more I think Biel-Tan is the most expendable of the main Craftworlds. No special characters to kill off and their 'gimmick' is easy to transfer to other Craftworlds (and other Eldar of any kind, see below*)
Since they have the most Aspect Warriors and Aspects are somewhat self contained, the surviving members of any Shrines destroyed can easily just merge with the Shrines on other Craftworlds.
This may not have been as easy for the Black Guardians of Ulthwe, the Wildrider Clans of Saim-Hann, or the Wraith Hosts of Iyanden. Aspects are 'universal' to all Craftworlds and do not share such close ties to Biel-Tan like those other examples do to their respective CWs.

*To top that all off, Fracturing Biel-Tan might actually be a good way to add fluff for Aspects to be used by Corsairs & Commorites.
A Dark Eldar player, for example, that wants to use an Aspect Host formation can do so with the added fluff that they are Biel-Tan refugees.

-

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Pilum wrote:
The only thing I'm really concerned about here are the Aspects. They're what attracted me to Eldar all those years ago in the intro article in WD Fartoolongago, even if it took me until fairly recently (by starting to play the game again) to actually start them seriously. They ARE the Eldar to me, they're visually distinct, there's genuinely very little like them out there *that I'm aware of* (unlike your 'space knights', generic human SF trooper and various types of 'xenomorph') and the idea of seeing them slowly disappear in favour of a more 'hybrid' look, like the Triumvirate's Sword, does give me the fear, a little bit. The recent talk of finecast and lack of updates hasn't really helped there.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not about to flounce, or scream, or make a big drama. But a distinctive, enjoyable and aesthetically pleasing (intellectually and artistically) part of the 40k universe will die a little for me, if they do go.

Still. Here's hoping, eh?

I don't think they'll get rid of the CWE and the aspects entirely. It seems that while Ynnead draws followers from both Dark Eldar and CWE, there's still a bunch of Eldar who distrust him.
I think the Ynnari will just be another offshoot of the Eldar, that will incorporate some, but not all, elements of DE and Eldar, with some of their own unique stuff.

Now that you've said this... maybe, MAYBE, the Ynnari will be basically a castellans of the Imperium detachment. Get a few bits here and there but the best stuff remains inside the respective codexii.

 Galef wrote:

What is worse, instead of 'unifying' the Aeldari, we are getting a new sub faction instead - The Ynnari. Freakin' Eldar 'undead'.
-

 Galef wrote:

*And to top that all off, Fracturing Biel-Tan might actually be a good way to add fluff for Aspects to be used by Corsairs & Commorites.
A Dark Eldar player, for example, that wants to use an Aspect Host formation can do so with the added fluff that they are Biel-Tan refugees.
-

The more I think about it, the more I feel that the above points might be the saving grace of this new fluff (if done right).

Rather than alienate Eldar/Drak Eldar players byu burning their factions and merging them into something that's neither Eldar nor Dark Eldar, they might be creating a whole new splinter-faction of Ynnari death-cult eldar that expands the fluff rather than reduces it. The Eldar aren't unifying, they're more fractured than ever.

As for Biel Tan, I was slightly pissed that they're probably nuking my favourite craftworld, but the fluff potential for a 'Biel Tan diaspora' is pretty huge, provided the background allows for it (i.e. doesn't sacrifice all the Biel Tan Eldar to summon Ynnead).

Make armies of refugees attached to other eldar factions, militaristic bands of Biel Tan working to unify their scattered people and reforge their Craftworld, lone and desperate webway wanderers just looking to survive.

https://www.twitch.tv/warhammer

starts in about 1 minute.

Fracture of Biel-tan is 1st up.

Lord Kragan wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Pilum wrote:
The only thing I'm really concerned about here are the Aspects. They're what attracted me to Eldar all those years ago in the intro article in WD Fartoolongago, even if it took me until fairly recently (by starting to play the game again) to actually start them seriously. They ARE the Eldar to me, they're visually distinct, there's genuinely very little like them out there *that I'm aware of* (unlike your 'space knights', generic human SF trooper and various types of 'xenomorph') and the idea of seeing them slowly disappear in favour of a more 'hybrid' look, like the Triumvirate's Sword, does give me the fear, a little bit. The recent talk of finecast and lack of updates hasn't really helped there.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not about to flounce, or scream, or make a big drama. But a distinctive, enjoyable and aesthetically pleasing (intellectually and artistically) part of the 40k universe will die a little for me, if they do go.

Still. Here's hoping, eh?

I don't think they'll get rid of the CWE and the aspects entirely. It seems that while Ynnead draws followers from both Dark Eldar and CWE, there's still a bunch of Eldar who distrust him.
I think the Ynnari will just be another offshoot of the Eldar, that will incorporate some, but not all, elements of DE and Eldar, with some of their own unique stuff.

Now that you've said this... maybe, MAYBE, the Ynnari will be basically a castellans of the Imperium detachment. Get a few bits here and there but the best stuff remains inside the respective codexii.

Probably. That's one way of doing it.
Speaking of the Castellans, as new detachments go it was alright. I still didn't like the free special rules, but at least it allowed you to pick what units to deploy, rather than following the recipe. It was basically a FoC.

Tyranids are involved, if only marginally.

 reds8n wrote:
https://www.twitch.tv/warhammer

starts in about 1 minute.

Fracture of Biel-tan is 1st up.

Either my phone is refusing to cooperate or you lied

 nintura wrote:

 reds8n wrote:
https://www.twitch.tv/warhammer

starts in about 1 minute.

Fracture of Biel-tan is 1st up.

Either my phone is refusing to cooperate or you lied

Your phone is a mean machine.

Interesting, they used Eldar in the stream, instead of Aeldari.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Interesting, they used Eldar in the stream, instead of Aeldari.

Is it really that interesting?

They also referred to Guardsmen instead of Astra Militarum. They've added "fancy" names for each faction, that doesn't mean they get used all the time.

Lord Kragan wrote:

 nintura wrote:

 reds8n wrote:
https://www.twitch.tv/warhammer

starts in about 1 minute.

Fracture of Biel-tan is 1st up.

Either my phone is refusing to cooperate or you lied

Your phone is a mean machine.

Your link wouldn't work but once I googled for warhammer tv twitch it worked

 nintura wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 nintura wrote:

 reds8n wrote:
https://www.twitch.tv/warhammer

starts in about 1 minute.

Fracture of Biel-tan is 1st up.

Either my phone is refusing to cooperate or you lied

Your phone is a mean machine.

Your link wouldn't work but once I googled for warhammer tv twitch it worked

It worked out for me and reds8n.

yes yes, i think we can move on from whether they're broadcasting or not.

Little summary of the eldar and the various denominations in the 40k universe as we understand it thus far.

Is there a way to save it so I can watch it for later? Not too familiar with twitch.

IIRC if you're a subscriber you can watch archived episodes, other wise no.

Regarding Craftworlds and their Infinity Circuits: retirement homes for the Eldar.

Best. description. ever.