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Your list does not work that way. Half the units have to be deployed at the beginning due to BRB.
Also i think that reserves count as drops for who is going first.

no who finish deploy first go first, matter nothing how much units you still have in reserve, about number of units deplyed i have 13 units i can deploy patriarch+15 purestrain and i m ok.

 blackmage wrote:
no who finish deploy first go first, matter nothing how much units you still have in reserve, about number of units deplyed i have 13 units i can deploy patriarch+15 purestrain and i m ok.

Patriarch and purestrains still have be declared as going into reserves separately I think. The Cult Ambush rule allows for them to arrive together but not to be placed into reserves together like the Trygon rule.

 Astmeister wrote:
Your list does not work that way. Half the units have to be deployed at the beginning due to BRB.
Also i think that reserves count as drops for who is going first.

They do. 'in the above example there are 13 units. 2 of the are 'transports' so it would only be 11 deployments, but still not the best chances of going first.

But as far as I can see the 5 GSC units, the trygon, transport and the 2 units inside it wants to be deployed in reserves. All of these can not go in reserve as they add up to 9. But you can only have half in reserve, so 7 of the units needs to start on the table.

I have used quite a bit of deep strike with both nids and tau against people who also had deep strike.

It is a mistake to deep strike turn 1. I hold my deepstrikers back until the enemy has deployed at least some of there's. I have won every game against every player to deployed theirs turn 1. They followed very predictable patterns that I prepared my deployment for while my deepstrikers hit where they would be most effective in turn 2 or 3 when the player left vulnerable openings.

Its so tempting to bring multiple trygons with multiple genestealer brood and just shove them in the enemies face turn 1. But your wrong. The psychological impact of knowing they are coming is valuable in and of itself and on turn 1 you are allowing the player to dictate how you will place them and what they will fight.

Hold onto your deep strike units. It pays off WAY more in turn 2 or 3.


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Also side note. I have a bunch of pms I want to add to the first post. My laptop died and all my interneting is on my phone atm. New laptop should be here by Monday. I will update once I get that so I can do some editing of the posts that won't drive me insane.

 Zimko wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
no who finish deploy first go first, matter nothing how much units you still have in reserve, about number of units deplyed i have 13 units i can deploy patriarch+15 purestrain and i m ok.

Patriarch and purestrains still have be declared as going into reserves separately I think. The Cult Ambush rule allows for them to arrive together but not to be placed into reserves together like the Trygon rule.

i dont know what you really mean, seems a no sense


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 Lance845 wrote:
I have used quite a bit of deep strike with both nids and tau against people who also had deep strike.

It is a mistake to deep strike turn 1. I hold my deepstrikers back until the enemy has deployed at least some of there's. I have won every game against every player to deployed theirs turn 1. They followed very predictable patterns that I prepared my deployment for while my deepstrikers hit where they would be most effective in turn 2 or 3 when the player left vulnerable openings.

Its so tempting to bring multiple trygons with multiple genestealer brood and just shove them in the enemies face turn 1. But your wrong. The psychological impact of knowing they are coming is valuable in and of itself and on turn 1 you are allowing the player to dictate how you will place them and what they will fight.

Hold onto your deep strike units. It pays off WAY more in turn 2 or 3.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also side note. I have a bunch of pms I want to add to the first post. My laptop died and all my interneting is on my phone atm. New laptop should be here by Monday. I will update once I get that so I can do some editing of the posts that won't drive me insane.

depend what kind of army you play, tyr cant waste time and risk to be annilathed, we dont have inv saves or though units as some other armies.


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 Niiai wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:
Your list does not work that way. Half the units have to be deployed at the beginning due to BRB.
Also i think that reserves count as drops for who is going first.

They do. 'in the above example there are 13 units. 2 of the are 'transports' so it would only be 11 deployments, but still not the best chances of going first.

But as far as I can see the 5 GSC units, the trygon, transport and the 2 units inside it wants to be deployed in reserves. All of these can not go in reserve as they add up to 9. But you can only have half in reserve, so 7 of the units needs to start on the table.

ok show me the line where units in reserve counts for who start firts pls, cause i find only about DEPLOY nothing about reserves.

 blackmage wrote:

 Zimko wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
no who finish deploy first go first, matter nothing how much units you still have in reserve, about number of units deplyed i have 13 units i can deploy patriarch+15 purestrain and i m ok.

Patriarch and purestrains still have be declared as going into reserves separately I think. The Cult Ambush rule allows for them to arrive together but not to be placed into reserves together like the Trygon rule.

i dont know what you really mean, seems a no sense

Units placed in reserve still count as drop, which is also to find in the designers note.

It goes like this:

Player A places Unit A1 on the table.
Player B places Unit B1 on the table.
Player A places Unit A2 in reserve. (Trygon + tunnel unit is one drop)
Player B places Unit B2 in reserve.
Player A places Unit A3 on the table.
And so on...


But still half your units need to be deployed, doesn`t matter how many drops are reserves / deployment.
13 units means 7 have to be deployed and only 6 can be reserves.
5 drops deployment and 5 drops reserves can not end up bringing 7 of that 13 units in reserve.

Edit:

ok show me the line where units in reserve counts for who start firts pls, cause i find only about DEPLOY nothing about reserves.

Page 215 states, that deploying in reserve is just a special kind of deploying so it still counts as a drop.

Here the quote from the designers note:

Q: In missions where players alternate deploying units, do units that are set up somewhere other than the battlefield still count as a player’s deployment choice? What about units that begin the battle embarked within a transport?

A: Units with abilities on their datasheets that allow them to be set up somewhere other than the battlefield must still be ‘set up’ in that locale, and so still count as a deployment choice. When you choose to set up a transport, declare what units (if any) are embarked inside – these are not separate deployment choices.

For example, two players are deploying their armies for the Only War mission. The mission instructs them to alternate deploying their units. Player A starts by setting up a unit of Ork Boyz on the battlefield. Player B then sets up a unit of Intercessors on the battlefield. Player A then sets up a Battlewagon on the battlefield – as it is a transport, Player A declares it will start the battle with a Warboss and a unit of Tankbustas embarked inside. Player B then sets up a unit of Terminators, but uses their Teleport Strike ability to set them up in a teleportarium chamber instead of on the battlefield. Player A then sets up their next unit, and so on.

I think Grotrebel has this covered. ^_^

 blackmage wrote:
no who finish deploy first go first, matter nothing how much units you still have in reserve, about number of units deplyed i have 13 units i can deploy patriarch+15 purestrain and i m ok.

Placing a unit in reserves counts as deploying a unit (aka what most call a "drop") and is no different than placing a unit on a table. Some units like the Trygon -- allow you to place an additional unit in reserve at the same time as thus count as a single deployment or "Drop". Likewise transports allow you to deploy multiple units at the same time counting as a single deployment (or "drop") as long as the units are embarked in the transport. GSC Cult Ambush does not have such a rule. Instead, you must deploy each unit separately into reserves when conducting a cult ambush. However, after the game has started and when it comes time to take them out of reserves, you may deploy a HQ along with another unit simultaneously using the same cult ambush role result.

So your army does not have 5 deployments or drops; it has a lot more.

Not at least the problem of placing half of the army on the table. You need more units or less reserve. :-)

There is no units begin in reserves and then are deployed onto the table for deployment. Units are nowhere until you place them there. Read the rule for any deepstriking unit. They are deployed into whatever fluff option they have that is basically reserves. You still have to actually place them there as one of your deployments.

I think he's got it now.

Back on topic: I tried an army containing 3 Carnifexes equiped with 1 set of Scything Talons, 2 Deathspitters and a thresher scythe. Supporting them was a Malanthrope, Old One Eye and a Swarmlord. (There's more to the army but this was the 'anvil')

Anyway, I won't go into the entire battle but I did reach a point where my Carnifexes were in melee with Necron Warriors. I wasn't sure if I should use the thresher scythe for an average of 8 attacks, or use the scything talons for 4 attacks that ignore all of their armor and reroll 1 to hit.

I tried both, and found the scything talons were performing better. So I did the math and found that the only place where thresher scythes will come ahead is against T4 or T3 targets with 5+ or worse saves. Does that sound about right? This is assuming only 1 pair of scything talons too.

Sporocyst as anti Scion Deep strike heavy meta? Drops onto an objective before turn one and projects a very large 9" bubble.

 Eldarain wrote:
Sporocyst as anti Scion Deep strike heavy meta? Drops onto an objective before turn one and projects a very large 9" bubble.

An army with almost only sporocysts (barbed strangler) and mieotic sporebombs. might even work!

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but with Instant Death being scrapped, Tyranid Warriors have gotten very good. They've gotten bonuses in a better Shadow in the Warp, cheap upgrades and buffs from a Prime. I think I'm right in saying you can get a unit of 3 with AG, Boneswords and Deathspitters for just under 100pts (may well be wrong, the new way of working out points is very confusing - I've just got back from abroad and reading up on the changes so this all new to me...). Anyway, that gives you a cheap Troops unit that's durable and pretty decent in both combat and shooting.

As discussed I think the Trygon Prime + Genestealer combo is an excellent option, but is it overkill/stupid to drop a Tyrannocyte with a Broodlord in next to them? Seems a bit too much, but it will give the Genestealers the buff and some psychic powers to help them out.

What other units do you guys recommend? From what I've seen so far, it's pretty much the opposite of what you'd take in 7th... I'm writing a list here and including Warriors, Trygons, Genestealers and no flyrants.

I would like to see some peoples experience with warriors. I was a beliver when I first saw the codex, but I have grown more cold over time.

I would love to see some peooles experience with them. Being all round models they can be very flexible mid-game, as opposed to genstealets in a shooting senario, or devilgaunts in a mellee fight.

Despite no instant death, 3 warriors are about as resilient as 9 necron warriors... except they don't reanimate and multi-damage weapons kill them faster. Despite this, they're priced low so you can lose them and not worry. If I were to play them, I'd put a large unit of 9 in a trygon tunnel with deathspitters and boneswords.

Mix and match is the way to go with warriors.

In a unit of 9, i would have 5 with deathspitters and boneswords, 2 with deathspitters and bonesword + lashwip and 2 with only ST.

ST guys are there to die from shooting, Lashwip ones die to melee. The other 5 bring the hurt.

WIth AG that totals 286 points for a unit that is though, hurts in melee even if charged, is a bad shooting target for the first 8 wounds and is actually a ranged threath, shooting the equivalent of 7 heavy bolters. The perfect second line.

The Shadow wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong here, but with Instant Death being scrapped, Tyranid Warriors have gotten very good. They've gotten bonuses in a better Shadow in the Warp, cheap upgrades and buffs from a Prime. I think I'm right in saying you can get a unit of 3 with AG, Boneswords and Deathspitters for just under 100pts (may well be wrong, the new way of working out points is very confusing - I've just got back from abroad and reading up on the changes so this all new to me...). Anyway, that gives you a cheap Troops unit that's durable and pretty decent in both combat and shooting.

I'm walking a unit of 9 with Deathspitters up the board each game. Very good unit. Pressure for synapse completely alleviated, and the unit itself is just always a threat and always useful, always takes some commitment to remove and always puts some damage. My experience with them is they are a very good Synapse unit. Malanthrope only covers so much area with its bubble and taking 2 is not a good use of points imo, and Swarmlord doesn't fit in every list. I'd recommend Warriors for sure. They also have the advantage of being easy to move, which is relevant when you are already running a bunch of units, another 30 devilgants might seriously impact both the enjoyment of playing the list for both players, as well as it's practicality in a tournament. E.G. I'm already running 60 Termagants on top of the rest of my army, taking another 30 doesn't feel like something I'd want to do even if they are an excellent unit. And as you said, Prime's make them even better, and Prime is a great cheap HQ who actually has damage output. It's all going to depend how you want to build your list of course.

We went from having the worst troops in the game, to having a troop slot where every unit is very playable, and often multiple different ones inside the same army. Tyranids have gotten a lot of praise for being strong in the new edition, but I got to take a second out to thank GW for taking the time out to design a fun codex. Some units are still bad, but even things like the Maleceptor is nowhere near as bad as some of last editions misfires. The only thing that seems truly terrible is the Tervigon, and I understand they are nervous about recreating 5th ed Tervigon who was so strong he basically held our entire dex up on his shoulders like Flyrant did last edition.

The buffs to warriors are nothing next to the buffs to shrikes. I do bring a small unit of warriors to act as back field synapse and blast away with a cannon. But I bring a large unit of shrikes to act as front line synapse and mess people up. They are just as durable but twice as fast and have Fly for only 6 more ppm. Shrikes with boneswords and fleshhooks are really great as a surgical strike melee unit.

 Lance845 wrote:
The buffs to warriors are nothing next to the buffs to shrikes. I do bring a small unit of warriors to act as back field synapse and blast away with a cannon. But I bring a large unit of shrikes to act as front line synapse and mess people up. They are just as durable but twice as fast and have Fly for only 6 more ppm. Shrikes with boneswords and fleshhooks are really great as a surgical strike melee unit.

Right on point, they're a great unit and a staple since the Index release

Yeah, shrikes in this edition got a buff even bigger than the warriors.

Now they are competing with warriors, and if you are looking for a melee specialist unit, they are clearly better. As a rule of thumb:

1) If you need troops, take warriors.
2) If you need a cheap synapse, take warriors
3) If you have a prime, take warriors, possibly in one big unit. Shrikes will outrun him.
4) If you need a backfield unit, take warriors.

In all other roles, take shrikes.

Purestrains are now 15pts. Updated FAQ available.

Yeah all our troops are pretty good now, which is great to see.

How are people running Hormagaunts though? They're still cheap despite the boosts, but I'm conscious of making them over-costed by adding Adrenal Glands and/or Toxin Sacs. I'm just thinking of running a big unit of 30 with no upgrades on foot to take advantage of their 8" movement. That's still only 150pts. Thoughts?

And Termagants? Units of 30 with 10 Fleshborer/20 Devourers seems to be the popular option. I liked a unit of pure Devilgants in a pod last edition, is that still viable with a unit of 20, to guarantee the re-roll of 1s to wound?

Loopstah wrote:
Purestrains are now 15pts. Updated FAQ available.

and the reason for that increase of cost?

Loopstah wrote:
Purestrains are now 15pts. Updated FAQ available.

Yeah, that was fast.
And yet no comments on the Tyrannid rending claws. I'm starting to believe that they are legit.


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 blackmage wrote:

Loopstah wrote:
Purestrains are now 15pts. Updated FAQ available.

and the reason for that increase of cost?

12 + self delivering method. Seems fair.

 The Shadow wrote:
Yeah all our troops are pretty good now, which is great to see.

How are people running Hormagaunts though? They're still cheap despite the boosts, but I'm conscious of making them over-costed by adding Adrenal Glands and/or Toxin Sacs. I'm just thinking of running a big unit of 30 with no upgrades on foot to take advantage of their 8" movement. That's still only 150pts. Thoughts?

And Termagants? Units of 30 with 10 Fleshborer/20 Devourers seems to be the popular option. I liked a unit of pure Devilgants in a pod last edition, is that still viable with a unit of 20, to guarantee the re-roll of 1s to wound?

Pod or Trygon, I think a unit of 20 devgaunts is good. If you have spare points after building your list, it's easy to slip a couple regular fleshborers in there.


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Ouch, 15 point purestrains. There goes the purestrains spam. Now do you reduce your units to 13 or take regular Genestealers? I guess it depends on how worthwhile you find the GSC psychic powers.

Spoletta wrote:

 blackmage wrote:

Loopstah wrote:
Purestrains are now 15pts. Updated FAQ available.

and the reason for that increase of cost?

12 + self delivering method. Seems fair.

Yeah 10 ppm was bonkers undercosted. I was hoping that they would change Tyranid Genestealers to be 10 ppm (free upgraded RC) but even then, their alternative delivery method was too good not to be worth SOME amount of points, and they were totally overreaching into Acolyte and Metamorph Hybrid territory (as in, the Purestrains were so good and so cheap that there was literally no reason to take those two units instead).

A little sad that it's a 150% increase. Don't know if I'll be able to run 3 squads of 20 any more....but that's also bad because then I don't have a Vanguard GSC detachment....RIP hmm this will require a lot of thinking

Has anybody experience with warriors in trygon?


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Loopstah wrote:
Purestrains are now 15pts. Updated FAQ available.

Where is this? I just found the old one.

 Niiai wrote:
Has anybody experience with warriors in trygon?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Loopstah wrote:
Purestrains are now 15pts. Updated FAQ available.

Where is this? I just found the old one.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/23/updated-faqs-and-boots-on-the-groundgw-homepage-post-2/