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I'm not 100%sure, but I don't think that the Prometheus existing during the Heresy fits with the background that it had in 40K.
The reason the Redeemer wasn't called the Prometheus despite it's flame weapons was that another Chapter had already used the name for their own modification. But apparently it had existed all along now...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2026/04/07 05:06:03
Gert wrote: Handwave as Spartans becoming lost tech as a base design.
Lascannon turret Predators were supposed to be only post-Heresy but that changed and it was handwaved as "The Mechanicus forgot".
My favorite handwave is the Dominus Knight which existed for millennia across the galaxy, then disappeared for the Heresy, then reappeared across the galaxy... for reasons unknown.
BorderCountess wrote: Just because you're doing something right doesn't necessarily mean you know what you're doing...
"Vulkan: There will be no Rad or Phosphex in my legion. We shall fight wars humanely. Some things should be left in the dark age." "Ferrus: Oh cool, when are you going to stop burning people to death?" "Vulkan: I do not understand the question."
– A conversation between the X and XVIII Primarchs
Gert wrote: Handwave as Spartans becoming lost tech as a base design.
Lascannon turret Predators were supposed to be only post-Heresy but that changed and it was handwaved as "The Mechanicus forgot".
My favorite handwave is the Dominus Knight which existed for millennia across the galaxy, then disappeared for the Heresy, then reappeared across the galaxy... for reasons unknown.
The Dominus Knight does exist in the Heresy. It had rules in 1.0.
It's not playable currently because GW's going berserk with range separation, that's all.
Gert wrote: Handwave as Spartans becoming lost tech as a base design.
Lascannon turret Predators were supposed to be only post-Heresy but that changed and it was handwaved as "The Mechanicus forgot".
My favorite handwave is the Dominus Knight which existed for millennia across the galaxy, then disappeared for the Heresy, then reappeared across the galaxy... for reasons unknown.
To be fair, it is kinda dumb looking design for more "serious" Heresy era (well as serious you can be with walking big robots).
Chiemra is an adaptation of the Basilisk chassis!!!!
That could actually pretty cool! That the Imperium first developed that hull for artillery purposes, then realising that it would make an interesting transport vehicle…
Chiemra is an adaptation of the Basilisk chassis!!!!
That could actually pretty cool! That the Imperium first developed that hull for artillery purposes, then realising that it would make an interesting transport vehicle…
The funnier part is that it's based on the Astartes Basilisk and not the Imperial Army version that is based on the Russ chassis.
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
To be fair, it is kinda dumb looking design for more "serious" Heresy era (well as serious you can be with walking big robots).
Nah, if you've got knights with literal swords or lances, "serious" doesn't really come into it. The Dominus is no more goofy than the Questoris chassis.
Chiemra is an adaptation of the Basilisk chassis!!!!
That could actually pretty cool! That the Imperium first developed that hull for artillery purposes, then realising that it would make an interesting transport vehicle…
Could be? It’s true!
The Basilisk and Manticore date from 1st Ed Space Marine. The Chimera was a Johnny Come Lately in 2nd Ed’s Titan Legion expansion. And was described, before it even got a model, as a troop transport adaptation of the Basilisk chassis.
I’ve got the requisite books somewhere, but can’t put hands on them right now.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Lord Damocles wrote: Turns out Imperial Armour Volume 2 2nd edition did add Heresy-era Spartans.
It just turns out that the Fire Lords Chapter were obviously unaware of their existence for some reason eight thousand years later.
In 'Ashes of Prospero', when the...
Spoiler:
40k era Space Wolves meet their 30k brothers, the future Wolves don't recognise a bunch of the 30k equipment.
By the broken gatehouse at the far end several transports waited. Njal recognised the three Rhinos, a ubiquitous transport design still in use after ten millennia. Several other vehicles were not so familiar – variants of the Predators he knew well, but also a slab-sided larger cousin to the Land Raider. Triple-mounted lascannons hung on its sponsons, its elongated assault compartment jutting like a hound’s muzzle.
+That is a Spartan,+ explained Izzakar. +And that tank destroyer behind is known as a Sicaran Venator. Your ignorance is astounding. How does one forget how to build a tank?+
The Stormcaller did not know. Such things were secrets of the Adeptus Mechanicus, a creed steeped in even greater ritual than the holy teachings of the Adeptus Ministorum.
[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern
Is an overly simplistic way of looking at a combat force suddenly and, one way or another, forcibly divorced from its supply chain.
When resources are scarce? You make them go as far as you can. Why fiddle around with more complex repairs when you can remove the greater complexity and adapt?
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
lord_blackfang wrote: Space Marines become unaware of Razorbacks and Land Speeders the moment they turn traitor, so there is precedent.
Man, that has been a meme for like 20+ years now, hasn't it?
I always assumed it was for gameplay identity and that renegade chapters do use them too, just less commonly. But it is arbitrary. When you think about it logically, Chaos should have practically everything loyalists do, plus a bunch of corrupted stuff. But every time that happens, loyalist players tend to complain about unfairness (as has happened from time to time with IK/CK).
My only nitpick with the Dominus is that it's legs are a little too short and should be standing a bit over the Questoris.
Otherwise it's the most "Empire Strikes Back" of the Imperial Knights.
I thought you were going to mention the flamer that can only use two barrels and not all three.
BorderCountess wrote: Just because you're doing something right doesn't necessarily mean you know what you're doing...
"Vulkan: There will be no Rad or Phosphex in my legion. We shall fight wars humanely. Some things should be left in the dark age." "Ferrus: Oh cool, when are you going to stop burning people to death?" "Vulkan: I do not understand the question."
– A conversation between the X and XVIII Primarchs
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
When I built the Dominus I remember being very confused, since it's presented as the "bigger" Knight and typically given beefier stats, even though it's not actually at all bigger than the Questoris, it just stands up straighter. I gave it a raised base just to better sell its supposed identity.
I always assumed it was for gameplay identity and that renegade chapters do use them too, just less commonly. But it is arbitrary. When you think about it logically, Chaos should have practically everything loyalists do, plus a bunch of corrupted stuff. But every time that happens, loyalist players tend to complain about unfairness (as has happened from time to time with IK/CK).
The worst part is, Renegade Chapters could use Loyalist equipment in 2nd Ed at an increased cost to represent how hard it is to maintain it without the Mechanicus and proper support.
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
lord_blackfang wrote: Space Marines become unaware of Razorbacks and Land Speeders the moment they turn traitor, so there is precedent.
The Razorback is the worst of the two really.
An argument can be made about the inability of renegades to maintain the complex grav plates. But there’s really no excuse why grav platesRazorbacks would all stop working…
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2026/04/07 20:02:00
lord_blackfang wrote: Space Marines become unaware of Razorbacks and Land Speeders the moment they turn traitor, so there is precedent.
The Razorback is the worst of the two really.
An argument can be made about the inability of renegades to maintain the complex grav plates. But there’s really no excuse why grav plates would all stop working…
Grav plates don't work in the Eye of Terror?
BorderCountess wrote: Just because you're doing something right doesn't necessarily mean you know what you're doing...
"Vulkan: There will be no Rad or Phosphex in my legion. We shall fight wars humanely. Some things should be left in the dark age." "Ferrus: Oh cool, when are you going to stop burning people to death?" "Vulkan: I do not understand the question."
– A conversation between the X and XVIII Primarchs
lord_blackfang wrote: Space Marines become unaware of Razorbacks and Land Speeders the moment they turn traitor, so there is precedent.
The Razorback is the worst of the two really.
An argument can be made about the inability of renegades to maintain the complex grav plates. But there’s really no excuse why grav plates would all stop working…
[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern
It’s more that, even with The Imperium’s resources, it’s a comparatively rare technology. Both in terms of the required knowledge, and the necessary materials.
Wonky as the Imperium’s resource management skills might be? From a renegade’s perspective the cost of maintaining such finnickity and ill understood technology clearly isn’t worth it. Instead, you put whatever resources you have into the very basics (personal armour and weapon maintenance), then the basics of the vehicle pool, and so on.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
I thought you were going to mention the flamer that can only use two barrels and not all three.
I'd be more of a Castellan kind of chap myself. All that melee nonsense is best left to the Warglaives.
Speaking of which...I'm looking at the Eye of Terror battalion...for only £104. I'm trying to keep things sensible on the 40K side of things with the smaller units, but GW has been going out of it's way to make that difficult. I would get this kit if I knew for sure the Dominus was returning to 30K, but GW are being beestars about that as well...
That said, I've been considering a small Scouring-era Rogue Trader force, thats on the heels of a "tactically withrawing" Iron Warriors force, putting 40K:RT to use. So basically a RT version of my Titan legion from AT/LI, which also commands a Knight House and Solar Auxilia army. So I'd get a Solar commander - either from the Veletaris or Solar Command kits - as the Trader themself, and then an Arch-Magos to service the Helverin I have sitting on the pile of shame and also plays "Gandalf" to the Trader.
Decisions, decisions!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2026/04/07 20:14:38
lord_blackfang wrote: Space Marines become unaware of Razorbacks and Land Speeders the moment they turn traitor, so there is precedent.
The Razorback is the worst of the two really.
An argument can be made about the inability of renegades to maintain the complex grav plates. But there’s really no excuse why grav platesRazorbacks would all stop working…
I assume the main reason is that the Razorback is a post-Heresy invention.
Back in 30k, the Legions were so well-supplied with such a versatile motor pool that there was no need for the Razorback to exist. Need to transport a half-squad in an armed transport? Just use the Land Raider Explorator which is better in every way (and way more expensive, but in the Great Crusade, they could sustain that expense).
By the time the Razorback became reality, the Traitor Legions had already sodded off, meaning that unlike Land Speeders and Drop Pods (which were _not_ post-Heresy inventions), they had no Razorbacks with them.
Of course, subsequent renegade Chapters would have some Razorbacks, but the CSM codex has usually had a focus on the oldschool traitors, with newer ones like the Red Corsairs getting expanded on properly only very recently.
I thought you were going to mention the flamer that can only use two barrels and not all three.
I'd be more of a Castellan kind of chap myself. All that melee nonsense is best left to the Warglaives.
Speaking of which...I'm looking at the Eye of Terror battalion...for only £104. I'm trying to keep things sensible on the 40K side of things with the smaller units, but GW has been going out of it's way to make that difficult. I would get this kit if I knew for sure the Dominus was returning to 30K, but GW are being beestars about that as well...
That said, I've been considering a small Scouring-era Rogue Trader force, thats on the heels of a "tactically withrawing" Iron Warriors force, putting 40K:RT to use. So basically a RT version of my Titan legion from AT/LI, which also commands a Knight House and Solar Auxilia army. So I'd get a Solar commander - either from the Veletaris or Solar Command kits - as the Trader themself, and then an Arch-Magos to service the Helverin I have sitting on the pile of shame and also plays "Gandalf" to the Trader.
Decisions, decisions!
The new Custodes book gave me the greatest hope for the future when it name dropped Questoris Sinister.
Psi Knights!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2026/04/07 20:38:53
BorderCountess wrote: Just because you're doing something right doesn't necessarily mean you know what you're doing...
"Vulkan: There will be no Rad or Phosphex in my legion. We shall fight wars humanely. Some things should be left in the dark age." "Ferrus: Oh cool, when are you going to stop burning people to death?" "Vulkan: I do not understand the question."
– A conversation between the X and XVIII Primarchs
lord_blackfang wrote: Space Marines become unaware of Razorbacks and Land Speeders the moment they turn traitor, so there is precedent.
The Razorback is the worst of the two really.
An argument can be made about the inability of renegades to maintain the complex grav plates. But there’s really no excuse why grav platesRazorbacks would all stop working…
I assume the main reason is that the Razorback is a post-Heresy invention.
Back in 30k, the Legions were so well-supplied with such a versatile motor pool that there was no need for the Razorback to exist. Need to transport a half-squad in an armed transport? Just use the Land Raider Explorator which is better in every way (and way more expensive, but in the Great Crusade, they could sustain that expense).
By the time the Razorback became reality, the Traitor Legions had already sodded off, meaning that unlike Land Speeders and Drop Pods (which were _not_ post-Heresy inventions), they had no Razorbacks with them.
Of course, subsequent renegade Chapters would have some Razorbacks, but the CSM codex has usually had a focus on the oldschool traitors, with newer ones like the Red Corsairs getting expanded on properly only very recently.
Personally I think it would be nice if CSM got access to some more of the "firstborn" stuff when it gets replaced by Primaris crap. Would be a nice side effect. Take your ugly grav tanks alright, I'll burrow that Whirlwind now. Oh, you now have beer belly dreads? Give me your washing machines!
Ashiraya wrote: When you think about it logically, Chaos should have practically everything loyalists do, plus a bunch of corrupted stuff. But every time that happens, loyalist players tend to complain about unfairness (as has happened from time to time with IK/CK).
If Chaos gets everything the loyalists get, plus all the gribbly/corrupt/daemonic stuff... why should anyone play as the loyalists?
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
