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And here's where the thread went downhill...

Yes calling out the hypocrisy of the NRA is "making the thread go downhill", or that statement is just another strawman

I don't think the NRA sees it as such a threat to the 2nd Am as you do, D. Maybe their not as gun nut as you thought? Choosing to have Pence speak and making a concession to allow that to happen doesn't really smack as hypocrisy to me.

Belaboring the point and the usual "nanny anybody boo" type pedantry sure does drag the thread down. Especially with the added racist accusations to boot.

The accusation comes from how the NRA handled the Castille case and that was pretty terrible. The media had to basically torture a response out of the NRA and they didn't even mention his name when they finally did.

The NRA thing comes up at least once a year, either they have a guest that precludes people carrying firearms, or a venue they rent for an event has rules against carrying firearms. The NRA routinely gets heckled for it.

And basically, it always breaks down along the lines of either "they dont have to like the rules, they just follow them" and "well they could avoid that if they chose to stick up for their principles and just not do X/Y/Z"

Personally, I somewhat lean more to the latter, primarily as I have seen the NRA increasingly engage in straight up partisan culture war politics over 2A civil right issues and put people like Loesch as their public face and track GOP talking points and culture battles hand in hand. That said, reality is a thing, and that doesn't always fit everyone's plans or narratives no matter how "pure", and that must be acknowledged on at least some level.

As for Wolf and the WHCD, in normal times, I would have agreed that Wolf went way too far. In normal times I do not believe Wolf would have gone that far. Wolf is not my favorite comedian, I think much of her material didn't quite find its footing as comedy at the WHCD, I think her humor often misses the mark, and her stage voice is...irritating.

All that said, I'll be a cold corpse in hell before I feel the slighest twinge of sympathy for Huckabee-Sanders. I would have been far less forgiving if I were given that mic. When her idea of representing the office of the President of the United States to the American people is to deeply engage in a method acting study of Baghdad Bob, she doesn't get a pass, and deserves none. Wolf may not be my favorite comedian, and that may not have been her best night or material, but nobody she went after has any valid reason to complain, and if they cant take it, well, perhaps they should have made better life choices. What makes it doubly ironic is that her boss didn't have the cajones to show up to be the center of attention himself, not to mention the fact that theyve run into this exact same thing before...and didnt appear any better prepared for it.

From the people who brought us "lock her up", "most Mexicans are rapists", "kill their families", "Kenyan Muslim", "the President thinks everyone should be treated fairly and with due process" and "the President has never promoted violence" comes: "Why are comedians being so mean to us?"

But it's the liberals who are the snowflakes guys don't you see?

Here is Wolf's nearly 20 minute routine. While I thought that lot of her individual jokes were weak and fell flat, overall I was very impressed. She called out everyone in the room.

"You all created this monster, and now you are all profiting from it." My respect for Wolf has gone way up.

 feeder wrote:
Here is Wolf's nearly 20 minute routine. While I thought that lot of her individual jokes were weak and fell flat, overall I was very impressed. She called out everyone in the room.

"You all created this monster, and now you are all profiting from it." My respect for Wolf has gone way up.

We... Agree...

I long for a president who can take a joke or criticism without whingeing on twitter about.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I long for a president who can take a joke or criticism without whingeing on twitter about.

Are you pining for the distant past of Nov 7, 2016?

 Ustrello wrote:
Yes calling out the hypocrisy of the NRA is "making the thread go downhill", or that statement is just another strawman

Yes yes, I'm sorry for mentioning cops. Let's get past that.

But I DO find it hypocritical that the NRA promotes more guns everywhere with the tired old "good guy with a gun" and then rolls over like a dachshund asking for a belly rub when the Secret Service asks for no guns except theirs during the VP's visit. The NRA says everyone should be trusted with a gun if he can buy one so show it!

Spetulhu wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:
Yes calling out the hypocrisy of the NRA is "making the thread go downhill", or that statement is just another strawman

Yes yes, I'm sorry for mentioning cops. Let's get past that.

But I DO find it hypocritical that the NRA promotes more guns everywhere with the tired old "good guy with a gun" and then rolls over like a dachshund asking for a belly rub when the Secret Service asks for no guns except theirs during the VP's visit. The NRA says everyone should be trusted with a gun if he can buy one so show it!

No no, I was calling out the fact that some of the posters here were deliberately moving goal posts and creating straw men

 Vaktathi wrote:
Personally, I somewhat lean more to the latter, primarily as I have seen the NRA increasingly engage in straight up partisan culture war politics over 2A civil right issues and put people like Loesch as their public face and track GOP talking points and culture battles hand in hand..

For a long time, the NRA was an organization that really looked out for sportsmen, police officers, and stood up to the worst excesses of the government. At some point in recent history, maybe the 80s or early 90s - I can't say exactly when, but maybe Frazzled could - they became a different organization, pretending that gun control in any form was a dire, existential threat to democracy, and then functionally becoming a shrill and loud arm of the current crazy wing that now occupies the spot conservatism once lived in. While they are nominally representatives of the gun manufacturing industry I think it's very reasonable to call them out what they are today; as you say - culture war foot soldiers that have veered far outside their lane.

I can't blame them for not wanting guns at an event, since whenever you have a big enough gun show the chances of a negligent discharge go up dramatically. People are dumb as gak, many states have no or virtually no competency requirements to conceal carry, and often the only hurdle for joining the NRA is having purchased a gun at retail with a complimentary membership. This is an uncomfortable truth for the NRA to say, of course.

 Frazzled wrote:
And here's where the thread went downhill...

I think you have to be honest that a lot of gun culture in America rests on white privilege - when young white men are free to go to Chipotle with ARs and AK's over their shoulders, but a young black man with a BB gun in a walmart is in mortal danger from the police. And that's how it's always been - remember Reagan signed an open carry ban, supported by the NRA.... once the Black Panthers started doing it.

 feeder wrote:
Here is Wolf's nearly 20 minute routine. While I thought that lot of her individual jokes were weak and fell flat, overall I was very impressed. She called out everyone in the room.

"You all created this monster, and now you are all profiting from it." My respect for Wolf has gone way up.

I have got to say this was the best stand up routine of the year so far. I know it wasn't really a stand up routine but the brutal truth of it was more hilarious for us at home. The looks on people's faces as she just kept going and not pulling back was hilarious!
When she made the comparison of Sarah Huckabee-Sanders to Aunt Lydia (Handmade's Tale), I lost it! That was savage as !

Wolf went in, took no prisoners, and salted the Earth as she left.

 d-usa wrote:
“Leader of the free world” is also a title that doesn’t just mean “person that bosses the rest of the world around”. There is the age old management discussion about what it means to be a leader rather than just being a boss.

More than that though, it is also a title for the type of leader the other countries should aspire to have. The personification of our “free and democratic” country standing in contrast to dictators and leaders of corrupt and evil governments. The leader with the values that should guide all leaders of every nation, who upholds the ideals and freedoms which sets the western world apart from others where people are repressed and suffer for things we take for granted.

Don't forget invading other countries for own benefit as biggest guns gives right as what us stands for

Spetulhu wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:
Yes calling out the hypocrisy of the NRA is "making the thread go downhill", or that statement is just another strawman

Yes yes, I'm sorry for mentioning cops. Let's get past that.

But I DO find it hypocritical that the NRA promotes more guns everywhere with the tired old "good guy with a gun" and then rolls over like a dachshund asking for a belly rub when the Secret Service asks for no guns except theirs during the VP's visit. The NRA says everyone should be trusted with a gun if he can buy one so show it!

What the hell do you mean by "rolls over like a dachshund asking for a belly rub?" First they make you pick them up, put them on the sofa, get them a nice binkie and deep tissue back massage, then they let you rub their belly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ouze wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Personally, I somewhat lean more to the latter, primarily as I have seen the NRA increasingly engage in straight up partisan culture war politics over 2A civil right issues and put people like Loesch as their public face and track GOP talking points and culture battles hand in hand..

For a long time, the NRA was an organization that really looked out for sportsmen, police officers, and stood up to the worst excesses of the government. At some point in recent history, maybe the 80s or early 90s - I can't say exactly when, but maybe Frazzled could - they became a different organization, pretending that gun control in any form was a dire, existential threat to democracy, and then functionally becoming a shrill and loud arm of the current crazy wing that now occupies the spot conservatism once lived in. While they are nominally representatives of the gun manufacturing industry I think it's very reasonable to call them out what they are today; as you say - culture war foot soldiers that have veered far outside their lane.

I can't blame them for not wanting guns at an event, since whenever you have a big enough gun show the chances of a negligent discharge go up dramatically. People are dumb as gak, many states have no or virtually no competency requirements to conceal carry, and often the only hurdle for joining the NRA is having purchased a gun at retail with a complimentary membership. This is an uncomfortable truth for the NRA to say, of course.

 Frazzled wrote:
And here's where the thread went downhill...

I think you have to be honest that a lot of gun culture in America rests on white privilege - when young white men are free to go to Chipotle with ARs and AK's over their shoulders, but a young black man with a BB gun in a walmart is in mortal danger from the police. And that's how it's always been - remember Reagan signed an open carry ban, supported by the NRA.... once the Black Panthers started doing it.

About the time of the assault weapon ban and a slew of state regs that haven't stopped since.

But yet, Reagan is a hero, not a villain. I don't get it. How can people be so ignorant of history?

 Dreadwinter wrote:
But yet, Reagan is a hero, not a villain. I don't get it. How can people be so ignorant of history?

???

Not seeing the connection. The AWB had nothing to do with Reagan.

 Dreadwinter wrote:
But yet, Reagan is a hero, not a villain. I don't get it. How can people be so ignorant of history?

The AWB was passed in 1994, under Clinton. What does Reagan have to do with it?

 Frazzled wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:
But yet, Reagan is a hero, not a villain. I don't get it. How can people be so ignorant of history?

???

Not seeing the connection. The AWB had nothing to do with Reagan.

Except the letter he wrote to congress urging support of an AWB, which wasn't even a new position for Reagan:




Despite the hero-worship by the GOP, Reagan would get his rear handed to him in a GOP primary, be called a RINO, and would probably end up running as a Democrat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 djones520 wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:
But yet, Reagan is a hero, not a villain. I don't get it. How can people be so ignorant of history?

The AWB was passed in 1994, under Clinton. What does Reagan have to do with it?

It passed by 2 votes in the house, with 2 Republican lawmakers directly citing Reagan's push in support for the measure as the reason for their "yes" votes.

And Kennedy would be called a Republican, and therefore a racist Nazi. Still not getting your point. Inversely I don't see Democrats now hailing Reagan as the second coming of Feinstein or something.

The point is that Reagan supported the AWB and the Brady Bill, and that GOP lawmakers directly cite him as the reason for their votes in favor of it, causing it to pass.



The statement "Reagan had nothing to do with the AWB" is simply false, and at a minimum Reagan was in full support of the ban and according to Representatives it would not have passed without his support at all.

Speaking as someone who owns a couple of fire arms, and who's father also owns some guns, neither of us will have anything to do with the NRA.

At one time, a long, long time ago the NRA did a lot of safety training and promotions. They supported hunters and fishermen, all the outdoorsy types. But along the line, they morphed into some kind of weird 2nd Amendment crusaders screaming Deus Vult at anyone who every dares to question anything they hold to be gospel.

Did we forget that Reagan was pro gun control or something? He pushed for the AWB and directly hurt the NRA. But yet, he is still the second coming.

We must have gotten a fresh new pair of extra rose tinted glasses or something.

 d-usa wrote:
The point is that Reagan supported the AWB and the Brady Bill, and that GOP lawmakers directly cite him as the reason for their votes in favor of it, causing it to pass.



The statement "Reagan had nothing to do with the AWB" is simply false, and at a minimum Reagan was in full support of the ban and according to Representatives it would not have passed without his support at all.

Again...and? Literally what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dreadwinter wrote:
Did we forget that Reagan was pro gun control or something? He pushed for the AWB and directly hurt the NRA. But yet, he is still the second coming.

We must have gotten a fresh new pair of extra rose tinted glasses or something.

Reagan is the second coming because Communism died, he cut taxes, and the economy grew at the greatest rate since WW2.

I don't like talking about Reagan because I look at Reagan then I look at Bush, then a look at how the amateurs took over after.

 Frazzled wrote:


Again...and? Literally what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

The point is that this statement:

 Frazzled wrote:

Not seeing the connection. The AWB had nothing to do with Reagan.

Was wrong.

At least, Reagan supported the AWB.
At most, Reagan was the reason the AWB passed.

Either way, Reagan had something to do with it.

I supported it. Does that mean I had something to do with it? Again Reagan's greatness is unrelated to gun control. My you are a one hit note beat aren't you.

 Frazzled wrote:
I supported it. Does that mean I had something to do with it? Again Reagan's greatness is unrelated to gun control. My you are a one hit note beat aren't you.

We can go at it from another angle of false greatness, Reagan had nothing to do with the USSR falling. It was 20 years of Soviet incompetence that happened to finally fall and end up in the lap of Reagan. But, you can continue to move the goal posts Frazz because if Reagan would of voiced support for a total AWB today he would be run out of the GOP

 Frazzled wrote:
I supported it. Does that mean I had something to do with it?.

Maybe, did two GOP lawmakers who voted in favor of a bill that passed by two votes go on the record and say that they changed their mind and voted for this bill because Frazzled asked them to?

Because they did to that for Reagan.

My you are a one hit note beat aren't you.

Maybe, you are still wrong though.

PS: Reagan signed two of the biggest tax increases into law and raised federal spending and the deficit.