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Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Cynista wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
The point I'm trying to make is that I certainly think it's too early to say crons will be bottom tier. We just haven't been able to keep adapting at the same pace as all the new releases

Bottom tier?
I wouldn't be too fast with such a statement.
I played Necrons in tourneys rather successful in the 6th and 7th ed.
Today, playing 40k is even easier. You just need to hold back- and midfield.

To me even more bold, I would bet money on Necrons being among the bottom 5 ranked factions in two years time when everyone has a codex. Which isn't to say that it's currently bad, it's not. But so far every other one has been a powerhouse so we're seeing a trend and I don't think we are durable enough to handle such a boost in killing ability across the board.

Power creep is a phenomenon we can observe in each edition.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Yes it is. And I'm saying that already in this edition, Necrons appear to be below the power average.
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Cynista wrote:
Yes it is. And I'm saying that already in this edition, Necrons appear to be below the power average.

Necrons are powerful enough to cope with power creeping.
The game is about objectives and not killing enemy units in the first place and here Necrons can excel.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




I hope this will add to your discussion.

I recently played a game against necrons and got pretty crushed. I wrote a detailed battle report on it. You can read it here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Necrontyr/comments/mlo7ds/tyranids_gsc_vs_necrons_2000_pt_written_battle/

I find it hard to believe this style of list will fade much no matter what books come out or how much power creep there is. Good luck out there.
   
Made in pt
Fireknife Shas'el




Lisbon, Portugal

Guys, friend of mine is starting Necrons and bought a box of Praetorians/Lychguards. He's pretty new to the game and basically has 3 Indomitus, a CCB, and a Void Dragon. Should he build the Praetorians or the Lychguard?

40k, AI & BFG: / SW Legion & X-Wing: CIS / MCP: X-Force, X-Men, Brotherhood of Mutants, Avengers

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"

 Shadenuat wrote:
Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army.
 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

 Vector Strike wrote:
Guys, friend of mine is starting Necrons and bought a box of Praetorians/Lychguards. He's pretty new to the game and basically has 3 Indomitus, a CCB, and a Void Dragon. Should he build the Praetorians or the Lychguard?

Its a pretty good start.
Most guys and girls will say Lychguard, since 10 Lychguard veiled at the battlefield via VoD are a decent threat and they are core.
Others will tell you that Praetorians are a decent unit in combination with The Silent King.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in at
Deranged Necron Destroyer





 Vector Strike wrote:
Guys, friend of mine is starting Necrons and bought a box of Praetorians/Lychguards. He's pretty new to the game and basically has 3 Indomitus, a CCB, and a Void Dragon. Should he build the Praetorians or the Lychguard?


In a vacuum, I'd say Sword & Shield Lychguard are probably the strongest option right now for 9th. Scytheguard hit hard, but tend to die immediately afterwards. Staff Praetorians are interesting as a bully unit, but maybe not quite strong enough.

That said, any of the three options listed above are valid and interesting units right now. With what he has right now, he has a great core to try out different builds. I'd suggest building 40 of the Warriors with reapers.
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

RandomHeretic wrote:
I hope this will add to your discussion.

I recently played a game against necrons and got pretty crushed. I wrote a detailed battle report on it. You can read it here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Necrontyr/comments/mlo7ds/tyranids_gsc_vs_necrons_2000_pt_written_battle/

I find it hard to believe this style of list will fade much no matter what books come out or how much power creep there is. Good luck out there.

That was an interesting report, thanks. Interesting to see the necrons' early dominance getting the primary points, even though they didn't do brilliantly in the actual fighting.

I'm also facing the Lychguard/Praetorian quandry. I think I'm going to build my five as Praetorians as a bully unit/action monkey squad. They're fast infantry that can do good things against enemy objective holders but aren't strong or durable enough to act as a hammer.

If I had ten of them I think I'd make them into Lychguard with shields, and I'd probably buy a night scythe to send them in with the stratagem (whose name I forget). But you kind of need a bigger squad of those guys to make them worthwhile, in my opinion.
   
Made in pt
Fireknife Shas'el




Lisbon, Portugal

Irdiumstern wrote:
 Vector Strike wrote:
Guys, friend of mine is starting Necrons and bought a box of Praetorians/Lychguards. He's pretty new to the game and basically has 3 Indomitus, a CCB, and a Void Dragon. Should he build the Praetorians or the Lychguard?


In a vacuum, I'd say Sword & Shield Lychguard are probably the strongest option right now for 9th. Scytheguard hit hard, but tend to die immediately afterwards. Staff Praetorians are interesting as a bully unit, but maybe not quite strong enough.

That said, any of the three options listed above are valid and interesting units right now. With what he has right now, he has a great core to try out different builds. I'd suggest building 40 of the Warriors with reapers.


wuestenfux wrote:
 Vector Strike wrote:
Guys, friend of mine is starting Necrons and bought a box of Praetorians/Lychguards. He's pretty new to the game and basically has 3 Indomitus, a CCB, and a Void Dragon. Should he build the Praetorians or the Lychguard?

Its a pretty good start.
Most guys and girls will say Lychguard, since 10 Lychguard veiled at the battlefield via VoD are a decent threat and they are core.
Others will tell you that Praetorians are a decent unit in combination with The Silent King.


OK, thank you guys! I'll tell him your points.

40k, AI & BFG: / SW Legion & X-Wing: CIS / MCP: X-Force, X-Men, Brotherhood of Mutants, Avengers

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"

 Shadenuat wrote:
Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army.
 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Irdiumstern wrote:
 Vector Strike wrote:
Guys, friend of mine is starting Necrons and bought a box of Praetorians/Lychguards. He's pretty new to the game and basically has 3 Indomitus, a CCB, and a Void Dragon. Should he build the Praetorians or the Lychguard?


In a vacuum, I'd say Sword & Shield Lychguard are probably the strongest option right now for 9th. Scytheguard hit hard, but tend to die immediately afterwards. Staff Praetorians are interesting as a bully unit, but maybe not quite strong enough.


I also am wondering about this. I am looking for a good midfield unit to dish out damage, but able to withstand some attacks directed back at them. I know Lychguard v. Wraiths are not apples to apples, but I am trying to figure out which unit pairs better with Skorpekh Destroyers as midfield bullies/tarpits for incoming fire. What would be the benefits of either choice here?
   
Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






teamtigerstripe wrote:
Irdiumstern wrote:
 Vector Strike wrote:
Guys, friend of mine is starting Necrons and bought a box of Praetorians/Lychguards. He's pretty new to the game and basically has 3 Indomitus, a CCB, and a Void Dragon. Should he build the Praetorians or the Lychguard?


In a vacuum, I'd say Sword & Shield Lychguard are probably the strongest option right now for 9th. Scytheguard hit hard, but tend to die immediately afterwards. Staff Praetorians are interesting as a bully unit, but maybe not quite strong enough.


I also am wondering about this. I am looking for a good midfield unit to dish out damage, but able to withstand some attacks directed back at them. I know Lychguard v. Wraiths are not apples to apples, but I am trying to figure out which unit pairs better with Skorpekh Destroyers as midfield bullies/tarpits for incoming fire. What would be the benefits of either choice here?

Wraiths are the most mobile, Lychguard the least. Then there's the keyword, canoptek, destroyer cult or core, value depends on list. Reanimation protocols is most valueable on Lychguard and they also have the bodyguard rule. Weakness to Damage 2 and D6 is a consideration if you want to skew. If you veil the pre-game move dynastic code is less valueable.

Have you considered Cronomancer + Scarabs?
   
Made in us
Cold-Blooded Saurus Warrior






Mandragola wrote:
RandomHeretic wrote:
I hope this will add to your discussion.

I recently played a game against necrons and got pretty crushed. I wrote a detailed battle report on it. You can read it here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Necrontyr/comments/mlo7ds/tyranids_gsc_vs_necrons_2000_pt_written_battle/

I find it hard to believe this style of list will fade much no matter what books come out or how much power creep there is. Good luck out there.

That was an interesting report, thanks. Interesting to see the necrons' early dominance getting the primary points, even though they didn't do brilliantly in the actual fighting.

I'm also facing the Lychguard/Praetorian quandry. I think I'm going to build my five as Praetorians as a bully unit/action monkey squad. They're fast infantry that can do good things against enemy objective holders but aren't strong or durable enough to act as a hammer.

If I had ten of them I think I'd make them into Lychguard with shields, and I'd probably buy a night scythe to send them in with the stratagem (whose name I forget). But you kind of need a bigger squad of those guys to make them worthwhile, in my opinion.


After reading through the rules for reinforcements and the stratagem [Prismatic Dimensional Breach] a few times, I think the best bet would be to put the Lychguard in the Scythe directly or keep them in reserves on their own. If you go first the Night Scythe has to survive one round of shooting before deploying Turn 2, if you go second it has to survive two turns. If the Night Scythe dies then your reinforcements come in on the board edge anyway. If they're embarked on the transport then if the Night Scythe dies turn two (use Chronomancer to give it a 5+ invul, run Szarekhan to give a 5+ FNP, hopefully keep it alive turn one), then your units will have to do an emergency landing but still be deployed within the same region they'd be if they disembarked anyway.

That said, I do see major advantages to the stratagem; it triggers in the reinforcement phase, so it's after you're Night Scythe has made two moves and that gives you more control where they deploy. And it lets you run a full squad of 20 warriors with Flayers and also deploy the 10 Lychguard from reinforcements.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




 vict0988 wrote:

Wraiths are the most mobile, Lychguard the least. Then there's the keyword, canoptek, destroyer cult or core, value depends on list. Reanimation protocols is most valueable on Lychguard and they also have the bodyguard rule. Weakness to Damage 2 and D6 is a consideration if you want to skew. If you veil the pre-game move dynastic code is less valueable.

Have you considered Cronomancer + Scarabs?


I was thinking of a small unit of scarabs + Chronomancer to shift its support to another unit when the scarabs die as a frontline tarpit, hopefully slowing opponents from getting good forward positioning if possible. This is why I was thinking Lychguard might not be too slow with pregame move followed by scarabs slowing people down. VoD would hopefully go on a unit of warriors with reapers as a surprise shotgun to any problem units that are hard to reach.
   
Made in us
Scouting Shadow Warrior



Longmont, Co

teamtigerstripe wrote:
Irdiumstern wrote:
 Vector Strike wrote:
Guys, friend of mine is starting Necrons and bought a box of Praetorians/Lychguards. He's pretty new to the game and basically has 3 Indomitus, a CCB, and a Void Dragon. Should he build the Praetorians or the Lychguard?


In a vacuum, I'd say Sword & Shield Lychguard are probably the strongest option right now for 9th. Scytheguard hit hard, but tend to die immediately afterwards. Staff Praetorians are interesting as a bully unit, but maybe not quite strong enough.


I also am wondering about this. I am looking for a good midfield unit to dish out damage, but able to withstand some attacks directed back at them. I know Lychguard v. Wraiths are not apples to apples, but I am trying to figure out which unit pairs better with Skorpekh Destroyers as midfield bullies/tarpits for incoming fire. What would be the benefits of either choice here?



.....warriors!!!

All of the things. Most of the time. 
   
Made in gb
Deranged Necron Destroyer



UK, Midlands

I cannot recommend sword and shield Lychguard highly enough. 9th edition is all about tough brawler units that can take and hold the midfield, and Lychguard are designed to do exactly that. A unit of 10 has been my most consistent performer since the codex dropped.

I'm yet to encounter a unit that they aren't happy to charge into; hordes, elite infantry, vehicles, Mortarion, they'll have a go at anything. There are loads of buffs available to them- taking them up to 6 attacks each at strength 8, AP -4 hitting on 2's rerolled if you want to go all the way, but they rarely need that much. Plenty of defensive buffs work great on them too, and they're an ideal accompaniment to the Silent King. Then there's Prismatic Dimensional Breach shenanigans if you want to go crazy.

They also work perfectly in either of the most commonly used dynasties. Novokh is great for the extra attack strat and +1 to charge (making a charge from veiling realistic), but Eternal Expansionists is even better; putting them on a midboard objective turn 1 with obsec.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/08 09:17:57


 
   
Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I cannot recommend sword and shield Lychguard highly enough. 9th edition is all about tough brawler units that can take and hold the midfield, and Lychguard are designed to do exactly that. A unit of 10 has been my most consistent performer since the codex dropped.

I'm yet to encounter a unit that they aren't happy to charge into; hordes, elite infantry, vehicles, Mortarion, they'll have a go at anything. There are loads of buffs available to them- taking them up to 6 attacks each at strength 8, AP -4 hitting on 2's rerolled if you want to go all the way, but they rarely need that much. Plenty of defensive buffs work great on them too, and they're an ideal accompaniment to the Silent King. Then there's Prismatic Dimensional Breach shenanigans if you want to go crazy.

They also work perfectly in either of the most commonly used dynasties. Novokh is great for the extra attack strat and +1 to charge (making a charge from veiling realistic), but Eternal Expansionists is even better; putting them on a midboard objective turn 1 with obsec.


Bladeguard Veterans and Canoptek Wraiths should beat them easily. They go about even with a Knight if you ignore shooting and buffs. Do you prefer Lychguard to Wraiths because you face a lot of D6 and flat 3 damage or is it Lychguard's resilience to AP- and AP-1? It's funny how in the edition where durability was secondary to offence shields cost more than scythes and provided less benefit than the edition where durability is king.

Getting to 6 attacks seems hard, if you pregame move and add 1 to their Movement with Relentless March Anrakyr will be 7" behind turn 1.
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

I'm also a bit sceptical of Lychguard, at least on paper. A two-wound profile isn't too attractive at the moment, with things like plasmaceptors around. They actually pay more points per wound than wraiths and skorpekhs but lose them at least as fast.

That said, lots of people do vouch for them. They're a unit that can take a charge from most things and still hit back, which is valuable. Eternal expansionist ones are obviously very interesting - though that also massively buffs their competitors.
   
Made in gb
Deranged Necron Destroyer



UK, Midlands

vict0988 wrote:
Bladeguard Veterans and Canoptek Wraiths should beat them easily. They go about even with a Knight if you ignore shooting and buffs. Do you prefer Lychguard to Wraiths because you face a lot of D6 and flat 3 damage or is it Lychguard's resilience to AP- and AP-1? It's funny how in the edition where durability was secondary to offence shields cost more than scythes and provided less benefit than the edition where durability is king.

Getting to 6 attacks seems hard, if you pregame move and add 1 to their Movement with Relentless March Anrakyr will be 7" behind turn 1.


6 Attacks is only possible with Anrakyr and Novokh so that wouldn't be an issue. +1 attack and MWBD is usual fine on them though, and doesn't require jumping through too many hoops.

The extra point of armour, and actually benefiting from RP makes a big difference in durability between Wraith and Lychguard in my experience. The amount of buffs available to Lychguard also means they can be a legitimate threat, whereas I've learnt not to rely on Wraith to fight anything. Despite the similarity in stats I think the two units perform best in different roles: Lychguard hold central objectives and brawl with whatever comes their way - Wraith go on the flank and use their speed to pick on enemy objective holders/ shooty units.



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/08 11:08:42


 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Lychguard hold central objectives and brawl with whatever comes their way - Wraith go on the flank and use their speed to pick on enemy objective holders/ shooty units.

This is a way to use the units. They are quite costly if you want them in a single army.
Instead of Lychguard, Skorpekh units are an alternative that I wouldn't rule out.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Scouting Shadow Warrior



Longmont, Co

 wuestenfux wrote:
Lychguard hold central objectives and brawl with whatever comes their way - Wraith go on the flank and use their speed to pick on enemy objective holders/ shooty units.

This is a way to use the units. They are quite costly if you want them in a single army.
Instead of Lychguard, Skorpekh units are an alternative that I wouldn't rule out.


1 unit of skorpekh are almost an auto include for me, their -1 to wound strat is super powerful. 5++ invuln and rerolling charges, now you’re really on to something.

All of the things. Most of the time. 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

you run 3, 5 or 6 skorpekhs with that auto-include mentality?
I find their footprint difficult to hide so they just get blasted really quick.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Scouting Shadow Warrior



Longmont, Co

5 or 6. If you want just 3 I’d go with wraiths instead. If you only have 3 skorpekh then that strat starts to be of questionable value. I like 6 for the extra big swings. (It’s not like you’re worried about blast...that’s probably going into your warriors if not then they can have as many shots as they want, can they wound you though)

They do have a substantial footprint but there should be plenty of los blocking terrain on the table. If there isn’t a place to completely hide about half your army in deployment then you’re probably doing terrain wrong.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/08 22:36:33


All of the things. Most of the time. 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Yeah more i think about it the less i think i care about blast with skorpekhs.
The only thing thats really gonna punish them is the plasma bs that marines use, which like you said should be hitting warrior blobs not skorpekhs.

Everything else is D6 shots (so likely to get 3 anyway) or only does 2D, so not a very optimal target.

Kannonwagons are the biggest thing i can think of that blasts skorpekhs reliably, but they dont care about the blast...2D6 shots means oh no if i roll snakeeyes i get 1 more shot... but i dont have to worry bout that unless im letting my friend borrow my orks because i am the only ork player that even bothers with kannonwagons (despite them being pretty dang good atm)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/09 00:43:55


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Skorpekh's are a more a counter-strike unit, and I'd take a unit of 5.
I'd field them behind a Warrior blob or some other unit hoofing towards the center.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Call me crazy but would Novokh gauss Immortal spam be actually a really fearsome army in the current meta? 2 melee attacks, decent gun, T5, reanimation and most lists these days are designed to kill 2 wound marines so you deny efficiency. Rad wreathed would also be good. Thinking 80 Immortals minimum with character support.

Not that I'd ever actually do it
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Cynista wrote:
Call me crazy but would Novokh gauss Immortal spam be actually a really fearsome army in the current meta? 2 melee attacks, decent gun, T5, reanimation and most lists these days are designed to kill 2 wound marines so you deny efficiency. Rad wreathed would also be good. Thinking 80 Immortals minimum with character support.

Not that I'd ever actually do it


I feel like after 30 Immortals their value dramatically drops off. At some point the investment is coming at the expense of other tools which help you win games. I feel like more than 40 Warriors EVER is excessive, and more than 30 Immortals is likewise.

I mean, it could work, and it might be cheeky to run with Szeras (T6 Immortals can indeed be surprisingly chunky when it happens).

11527pts Total (7400pts painted)

4980pts Total (4980pts painted)

3730 Total (210pts painted) 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Cynista wrote:
Call me crazy but would Novokh gauss Immortal spam be actually a really fearsome army in the current meta? 2 melee attacks, decent gun, T5, reanimation and most lists these days are designed to kill 2 wound marines so you deny efficiency. Rad wreathed would also be good. Thinking 80 Immortals minimum with character support.

Not that I'd ever actually do it

I'd add some variety and take 2x10 Immortals and 1x20 Warriors with reapers backed up by TSK.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




 wuestenfux wrote:
Skorpekh's are a more a counter-strike unit, and I'd take a unit of 5.
I'd field them behind a Warrior blob or some other unit hoofing towards the center.


In the list I am trying to build up to I already have a 5-6 Skorpekh unit in mind, but I want something that can run down the middle here. I see the obvious value in Lychguard for this role, but would a second unit of Skorpekh be a good middle of table unit for this, or are they too vulnerable relative to Lychguard for running the middle? Really I am just wary about 2 wound expensive units in shooting range of anything that is built to target primaris.
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

There aren't really a lot of units that you can expect to survive for a long time in the middle of the battlefield. I think it's arguably a job for warriors rather than Lychguard. That said, most enemies will find 10 Lychguard harder to remove than 20 warriors.

A good thing about Lychguard is that they don't need buffs. They come with a 2+/4++.
   
Made in us
Scouting Shadow Warrior



Longmont, Co

teamtigerstripe wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
Skorpekh's are a more a counter-strike unit, and I'd take a unit of 5.
I'd field them behind a Warrior blob or some other unit hoofing towards the center.


In the list I am trying to build up to I already have a 5-6 Skorpekh unit in mind, but I want something that can run down the middle here. I see the obvious value in Lychguard for this role, but would a second unit of Skorpekh be a good middle of table unit for this, or are they too vulnerable relative to Lychguard for running the middle? Really I am just wary about 2 wound expensive units in shooting range of anything that is built to target primaris.


I wouldn’t recommend two squads of skorpekh. If you use their strat on one unit, your opponent is going to switch to shooting the other..

I would turn that second unit into wraiths or lychguard. Wraiths arnt as well suited to slogging up the middle but you could definitely use 2 small units to race out into objectives and then rely on their invuln saves to survive till your next command phase.

Honestly I think reaper warriors with a unit of scarabs screening can be a fierce mid board presence. A max scarab squad with chronomancer buff can maybe get the job done themselves. 36 wounds 5++ and a good chance to be rezzing bases.

All of the things. Most of the time. 
   
 
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