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Made in us
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin






We had decided to wait till the codex came out to start a new thread. Well the codex is out today!

Which units are your favorites?

My Choices
1.Nightbringer
2.Skorpekh Destroyers
3.Silent King

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/10 16:32:05


   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Working on it

Gameplay wise:

-Void Dragon
-Silent King
-Doomstalker

Model Wise:
-Silent King
-Ophydian Destroyers
-Monolith



<Dynasty> ~10500pts
War Coven of the Coruscating Gaze ~3000pts
Thrice-Damned Plague Corps ~3250pts
Admech (TBN) ~3500pts +30k Bots and Ulator

 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

One thing I feel is "missing" in the codex is that in the Tyranid one you get a snippet (a page or so) on each unit's individual fluff. The Necron one almost has taken a step back to an older style in organising and done away with that save for a few characters - instead they've got the short paragraph of detail on their unit page; which is something quite old in style for codex. Granted the new organisation is a LOT LOT LOT easier. You can see how to build an army very simply now. They've also not made army building simpler in structure of points and such; simply made it more accessible and sensible. They've gone back to that old style of pricing the model and weapons at their cheapest and then having everything else as an optional extra with a price - far easier to build with than the former "buy the model and the weapon" which is fine for a Tyranid Warrior; but feels odd when its something like a Flayed one - esp when they then start having charts with weapons of the same kind having different prices etc...


Also I like how the Silent Kings lore doesn't actually fill in specific details on certain events and revelations. It leaves his background very up in the air with a lot of mystery around it. Is he even who he says he is; where did he really go what did he really see - we only have guesswork and some general comments that it is him and that it is the Tyranids that are the greatest foe.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ring The New Codex Bells!

My hot takes:

In the eternal battle of immortals vs warriors, the warriors will have their turn in the sun.

We have a zillion new melee elements, I believe Scytheguard will be champs.

The Silent King makes a strong challenge, but I think Imhotekh will stay the most played special character.

Mephrit vs. Sautekh may fade entirely, usurped by the all conquering cus'taum dynasty, long may it reign.

To answer the top thread 3 favorite models question:
Rules:
C'tan
Lokhust Destroyers
Annihilation Barges

Models:
Silent King
Void Dragon
Tomb Spyders (not new, but I freaking love those little beetly guys!)

All in all, fact is that Warhammer 40K has never been as balanced as it is now, and codex releases have never been as interesting as they are now (new units and vehicles and tons of new special rules/strategies each release -- not just the same old crap with a few changes in statlines and points costs).

-Therion
_______________________________________

New Codexia's Finest Hour - my fluff about the change between codexes, roughly novel length. 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Working on it

Fiddling with the point one could make a silly list of

-3x Skorpekh Lords
-1x Lokhust Lord
-6x Skorpekh and plasmacyte
-6x Skorpekh and plasmacyte
-6x Skorpekh and plasmacyte
-1x Hexmark
-6x Ophydian Destroyers and plasmacyte
-10x Flayed Ones
-3x Lokhust Heavy Destroyers
-5x Immortals
-5x Immortals

Should come out to about 1975 before upgrades

Doesn't benefit from Command Protocols which isn't huge, but it does fit into 2 Patrols.

This with the ObSec and 6" free move dynasty traits could be a fun list. 100% not competitive, but pleasing to the eye

<Dynasty> ~10500pts
War Coven of the Coruscating Gaze ~3000pts
Thrice-Damned Plague Corps ~3250pts
Admech (TBN) ~3500pts +30k Bots and Ulator

 
   
Made in ie
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





40kenthusiast wrote:
.

The Silent King makes a strong challenge, but I think Imhotekh will stay the most played special character.


I suspect the Silent Kings points is what will put people off him.



https://mobile.twitter.com/SewerWatch 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





St. Louis, MO

Favorite units:

Gauss Tomb Blades
Illuminator Szeras
S&B Lychguard

Favorite models:

Nightbringer
Finecast Warscythe Overlord
S&B Lychguard

Close runner ups:
Spyders
Original Flayed Ones

11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die.
++

Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Silent King is the first big model I've seen since pre-nerf Girlyman that's actually worth taking. If the Necrons codex was as strong as the SM one overall, I would be afraid he'd see a nerf...but since that isn't the case, I'm not too worried, I think he'll just remain one of the only big units that's any good.

Gauss immortals are better than warriors IMO for 10 man units. 4 points for +1S/+1AP/6" range on the gun, +1T, +1save AND +1 attack is a bit of a steal. Warriors are interesting if you go to 20 man, or if you take support like a rez orb and/or a technomancer, though the latter is only worth it IMO if he can do double duty buffing some canopteks.

Scarabs are still excellent, especially with the all ob-sec + 6" move custom dynasty.

Nemesor Zandy is one of the best special characters in the entire game thanks to the free, automatically succeeding Vect, and would be an auto-include in most lists if only he wasn't stuck with a crappy dynasty.
   
Made in de
Been Around the Block




If you want to run Sautekh, it's not bad, you just have to build for it. The unique stratagem, WL trait and relic are all very nice. 30 Immortals should be the base.

I think people are a bit too hot on the ObSec + free move combo.
   
Made in ca
[DCM]
The World Killer.




The best State-Texas

The Catacomb Command Barge seems like it's by far going to be the best place for your Noble if you are planning on running Command Protocols.

I'm a big fan of our Dynasty revamp as well. Almost all of them are good. Really the only ones that I think are bad at this point are Sautekh and Nihalakh, and Nihahalk just by virtue of being a better custom dynasty option.

We have a ton of options now, and nearly everything in the codex is good to really good. There are really only a few minor things that stand out as bad.

I can play stuff that's not even optimal and still easily win games. The gulf between what was optimal and not in our new dex is just so much smaller than it used to be.

I'm just as happy as can be.


4000+
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+
:Necron: Necron Discord: https://discord.com/invite/AGtpeD4  
   
Made in us
Irked Necron Immortal



Colorado

I love that our beloved Necrons are being revamped, but its a little overwhelming ATM to sort through everything. Loving the Void Dragon model.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




The best thing about the book is that the internal balance is quite good, aside from a few things like the reanimator that are just junk. Almost everything in the book feels viable, and there are a lot of potentially interesting builds. Nothing feels obviously overpowered, unlike a certain other book.

The worst thing about the book is that it isn't on the same level as the SM codex. Which, although not surprising, is disappointing. I guess we just have to hope that it's only SM that are overpowered again, and that other codexes will be on a level with the Necron one, not the SM one; otherwise, Necrons will be left behind right from the very start. And hopefully they'll get around to nerfing the SM one in a few months once they sell enough new models.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/10 20:23:18


 
   
Made in de
Been Around the Block




SM still play mostly on their own level. There are a few armies that can compete with very narrow builds while being more difficult to play.

So comparing Necrons to everything else, looks very good. Let's see what see DG codex brings to get an idea of what GW wants to do this edition.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I'm just gonna read through the book over the next couple days, give my no-games thoughts on all the stuff I see.


40kenthusiast Hot Takes : 1 of lots

Dynastic Codes:


Mephrit: Will see play.

Main buffs: This is, in my opinion, the best of the book dynasties. It augments the thing we want to do, shoot, in 2 ways, both of which we like.

Protocol: The protocol it buffs also synergizes properly, such that both halves of it encourage the same behavior.

Custom Strat: It's custom strat is not objectionable, nor is it great. You pay a point to put up to 3 mortal wounds on something you are killing. I don't hate it, but I don't love it either. It's probably fine, about on the level of rolling a 1 for damage on a d6 weapon and spending for the reroll.

Custom Relic: A better gun for a Royal Warden, it doesn't bite, but it's a marginal upgrade. You'd only take this after you'd taken the Voltaic Staff, AND if you had a Royal Warden in your list. Worth it under those conditions.

Warlord Trait: Sucks. It's a mediocre melee trait for a faction that very much doesn't want to be there. Your warlord is probably toting the Voltaic Staff, right?

Best on: Fast stuff with lots of shots, Annihilation Barges, Ghost Arcs, Night/Doom Scythes/, essentially anything that moves fast and has a high rate of fire.

Special Characters: No.


Novokh: Will see play.

Main Buffs: Necron melee isn't a joke anymore, and the bonuses it is handing out are exactly the right ones. (AP and charge distance both good)

Protocol: Protocol is also synergizing with the dynasties main codes. Only reason I rate Sautekh/Mephrit higher than this is that shooting is currently better than punching in the game as a whole.

Custom Strat: Their custom strat is gold. You pay a point to get a host of extra attacks, buffed by everything that is already buffing their nonsense. It is a bit win-more, but, shrug, it's just one point.

Custom Relic: Their scythe isn't as good as the universal scythe. If you want to double scythe, I guess it's not the worst, but it's a deeply unimpressive relic. Melee list probably is also making bedroom eyes at the Veil, so there's that.

Warlord Trait: A deeply meh fighting buff. It's a least synergistic, in that you want a Novokh warlord to hit people, but it's the worst kind of nothing in terms of the actual rules. Maybe, with a terribly active warlord, you'd get one or two mortal wounds over the course of a game, vs things that were already dying because your Novokh Warlord was going to town on them with a warscythe.

Best on: Fighting units, naturally. Takes a bit of a hit in that people might well fight with C'tan and Praetorians. The bonuses actually, in my eyes, tend to guild the lilly on our specialty attack units (lychguard, the new fighty destroyers), who don't exactly lack for strength or AP, but they are excellent on scarabs, spyders, and other marginally fighty units.

Special Characters: No. (GW, how hard would it be to make the forge world guy who wants to punch everything a member of the Punch Everything dynasty?)


Szarekhan: Won't see play, after new hotness has worn off.

Main Buffs: Rerolling one wound roll per any attack is excellent, defense vs mortal wounds is deep core mediocre.

Protocol: Their protocol is pretty trash, most things will benefit from neither aspect of it, so their ability to augment 'both' is deeply sus.

Custom Strat: Their custom strat is a neat notion, but ruined by the coin flip in it.

Custom Relic: Their relic deals with the protocols, making the aura bigger and making it give both halves. I don't think anyone will take this. The protocols seem fiddly, where a lot of the time you will be stuck with the 'wrong' one for a given round. Making both halves of it work isn't what I want out of a protocol relic.

Warlord Trait: Grumble Grumble, so, giving the same warlord trait twice is what I was saying I wanted above, but I was picturing more of a 'reactively swap them out' deal than a better ability to call your shots. I can envision this being a game plan, where the first 2 rounds you put the shooting protocol up, put your guy with the relic in the middle of the army and try to alpha, but, like, why not just be Mephrit if that's the deal? Eh.

Best On: Shrug, the flip side of the lack of synergy is that it isn't bad at buffing any particular thing. No unit will kick 'reroll a wound roll when you fight or shoot' out of bed, and mortal wound protection is similarly fine all round. I guess you could make the case that the reroll to wound encourages doomsday arcs, those big new walker thingies, tachyon arrows and other single shot hotness.

Special Characters: The big one, but he's also a Dynastic Agent so he'll join whatever team. Also, not to skip ahead, but I don't think he's all that.


Nephreck: Won't see play. Just a grab bag of nothing that doesn't commit to anything.

Main Buffs: Minor invul save, and Translocate, which makes units faster/ more mobile. They also, uh, can't shoot? Thanks Nephreck. It used to be that there was a fringe plan where you used the auto max advance and a strat that lets you charge after advancing, but the strat is MIA, so this dynasty is left as the 'advance without shooting or charging' dynasty.

Protocol: Their protocol is the same poison mishmash as their buffs, helping movement on the one hand and actions on the other. You can sort of squint and be like 'the plan here is to race some units up to take actions and the invul save protects them.

Custom Strat: They can give a unit that normally doesn't deep strike, deep strike. This is definitely a good strat, cheap and you can do plans with it. I think you have to build the list around it, but, that's not exactly hard. DS a Destroyer unit and light someone up. Dump a big ole unit in a building in the middle if you don't feel like Translocating them up there with the thousand things that buff the plan of run-up-warriors-to-get-rekt.

Custom Relic: It's a staff of light that turns off infantry overwatch. I guess that protects your Nephreck melee list on the way in? Ugh. I'm being meaner to this dynasty than it deserves, like you can sort of see the shape of a blitz list that endures via invul saves and gets there via translocate + Deep strike and they can't shoot you because you've blinded them and and and...that list should be Novokh, ok?

Warlord Trait: Possibly the only one debatably worse than my beloved Mephrit. Nope, sigh, it's better. Still trash though. The problem of 'our warlord is getting killed by enemy attacks' is one that we don't have until after we've lost the game.

Best On: I want to say, like, scarabs and spyders? 'Cheap wounds that want to get stuck in and need to go fast' feels like their bag. Nekthyst canoptek list? I dunno, it's probably fine. Hilariously enough we have 2 lords of war that would love a 6+ invul, but the LoW auxiliary rules mess that up.

Special Characters: No (I want to say Trazyn used to be one, but he's a dynastic agent now. If so, no great loss.)


Nihilakh: Might see play (prob not). Frustrating dynasty that is on the verge of working but doesn't. Lunch eaten by custom dynasties.

Main Buffs: Ob Sec everyone, that's fine. Also if you don't leave your DZ you treat -1 AP as no AP. Taken jointly these hint at this being the 'sit in your DZ and score' faction, which really isn't that viable of a game plan. More realistically, it feels like the 'all gravy and the gravy scores' faction, which, sure.

Protocols: Eternal Guardian is an excellent protocol, but the great part is the first one, where you get light cov if you didn't move. You are rarely gonna need both halves, you tend to either be stationary or not, be in charge range or not. No need to be Nihilakh to get bennies from this one.

Custom Strat: Situational, but good in those situations. Most of the time you want to take actions with chump action takers, but with this strat in your hand you can make a plan that involves a tough guy unit of destroyers of w/ever blasting someone while also taking the action. One of those strats that varies wildly in applicability depending on board positioning, matchup and your list, but when it's good it can be great.

Custom Relic: It makes the guy carrying it a bit harder to kill. Ok.

Warlord Trait: It makes the warlord fight first. This is probably the best of the endless array of 'your warlord is personally a bit tougher in fighting' traits from the book dynasties, beating out Mephrit and Novokh, but that still doesn't make it good.

Best On: You can go a few ways here, leaning into the Ob Sec stuff and just taking an all gravy list, or going warrior heavy with each counting as 2 models and trying to out score the other team. You could take a lot of long range stuff to maximize the protection in your DZ, like, the dynasty is probably not worth as much thought as I'm trying to give it. I'd say, if forced to bet the devil my head, warrior bricks is probably the way to go.

Special Characters: No.


Sautekh: Will see play. My old nemesis, still going strong.

Main Buffs: Situational rapid fire buff, then a nice reroll on morale. Both work pretty well to suggest you should take big units that have rapid fire weapons, and we've got a bunch of those. Warrior blobs, Gauss immortals, gauss tomb blades, etc. Weird in that it buffs the mandatory core parts of the army, rather than the do-work parts, but at least it's clear in its intent.

Protocols: Conquering Tyrant is kind of garbage. You certainly don't need both halves of it.

Custom Strat: Their signature strat has lost a step, with the nerf to plus to hit and testa weapons, but it's still a multi-unit buff for 2 points. One of the main reasons to play Sautekh, in a lot of rounds of 40k your whole shooting phase will be vs. 1 or 2 units, this strat will Do Work. Very easy to get the most of the army to 2's to hit, reroll 1's vs your chosen target each round.

Custom Relic: Thing that makes enemy units go last in the fight phase if they are near your lord. Might be neat in a novokh list, but it's hard to imagine anyone in a Sautekh list ever actually taking this. They tend to be about shooting, and between their special chars and the Voltaic Staff it's hard to imagine them putting those aside for this thing.

Warlord Trait: Best one in the dex, no question. It even comes on the special character you might be tempted to take. You'll get 2-3 more strats than most people over the course of a game, and they just so happen to have a great strat to spend those extra points on.

Best On: Sautekh like rapid fire units and big blobs, for their main buff, but the army in practice tends to be more about augmenting the shooting of the heavy shooters. Something like warrior blobs with Imhotekh and some Doomsday Arks, maybe a Triarch Stalker, maybe some Destroyers...you've all seen the list.

Special Characters: Imhotekh, Zendrekh and Orbyron. Z&O are situational, and their gimmick is mostly done, but Imhotekh is a worthy leader, affordable, shoots like a Destroyer, fights like heh as a warscythe, random mortal wounds, phaeron, extra command points...


Custom Dynasty: Will see play, maybe not as much as folks will think at first

Getting this right out of the way first off, they don't have any custom strats, custom relics, special chars, custom warlord traits, none of that. They have to make up every bit of that with their main buffs. So let's go down the lists (you get one choice from both lists). I'll put *s after them, more *s is I think it is more good, - is if I think it sucks.

Dynastic Traditions:
Eternal Conquerers: The obsec part of Nihilakh *
Pitiless Hunters: Better rapid fire buff than Sautekh **
Superior Artisans: The good part of Szarekhan **
Rad Wreathed: Melee buff, arguable vs. Novokh main rules main buff ***
Immovable Phalanx: excellent buff for infantry units that remain still ***
Unyielding: Better part of Nephrack *
Contemptuous: Good at attacking characters? -
Unmerciful Hordes: The other half of Sautekh *
Masters of the Martial: Minor buff to every units hit, **
Butchers: Other half of Novokh *
Severed: If you don't want to pay Nobles, but do want protocols? -
Vassal Kingdom: Just play the dynasty in question. -

Circumstances of Awakening:
Ancients Stir: Speed for Canopteks -
Arise against the interlopers: Melee buff vs infantry/bikers *
Healthy Paranoia: Worse half of Mephrit **
Relentlessly Expansionist: Great Speed buff w/situational extra stuff *** (if army built for it)
Isolationists: dif, worse, flavor of Mephrit good half **
Warrior Nobles: Nobles fight better? Gimmick -
Interplanetary Invaders: Vehicles can shoot while falling back, or shoot while in combat with no penalty *

So, mucking about with this, here are my basic thoughts:

1. Build a dif, maybe better Mephrit/Sautekh style shooting list. -Superior Artisans/Masters of the Marital with healthy paranoia, expansionist or isolationist

You are essentially jacking the good half of Szarekhan, then sticking a positioning or shooting upgrade onto it. Reasoning is that Mephrit's relic/strat isn't enough to make up for the first half of your build, while Sautekh's strat is expensive. I think this is legit.

2. Build a better? Novokh list: -rad wreathed/butchers with ancients/arise/expansionist

I think this is a failure, you can arguably get benefits just as good as novokhs, but you'll miss out on their strat and their getting both halves of the protocol. Novokh is probably the right way to be melee crons.

3. Some scory thingy?

You can take Phalanx and/or Conquerers and then expansionist and do go sit on objectives harder than the other side. I don't think it measures up vs. the shooty version.


Conclusions of First section:

I see 4 fairly reasonable list archetypes. Mephrit close range fast shooty, Sautekh long range shooty, custom dynasty as a better Szarekhan shooty or Novokh melee punchy. Going forward, as I look at the units, I'll be trying to slot them into these 4 lists.

All in all, fact is that Warhammer 40K has never been as balanced as it is now, and codex releases have never been as interesting as they are now (new units and vehicles and tons of new special rules/strategies each release -- not just the same old crap with a few changes in statlines and points costs).

-Therion
_______________________________________

New Codexia's Finest Hour - my fluff about the change between codexes, roughly novel length. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




I think you're quite a way off on your Dynasty rankings, in all honesty. Mephrit remains the trap choice it previously was and of the core Dynasties Nihilakh is easily the best. ObSec on everyone is huge and while the second part of their trait isn't brilliant it helps if you go second and helps keep your backfield objective campers alive. The strat is good too - being able to take actions and still shoot is really good since you can use a proper unit to perform the action, making it more difficult for your opponent to stop you.

Overall, I think the double Command Protocols and Dynasty WL traits and strats probably aren't strong enough to stop people taking a custom Dynasty of everything's ObSec and the free 6" move at the start of the game. Those just seem bonkers good to me.
   
Made in ca
[DCM]
The World Killer.




The best State-Texas

I actually have to disagree pretty strongly about the Sautekh ranking, espeically now that reapers are assault 2. I think it's actually the weakest of the codes. It offers Imotekh which is great, and Hyperlogic strategist, but I don't think that's worth handicapping your army for.

I am a bit higher on Szarkean as well. We've seen how strong the reroll a single wound roll is. Over the course of a game, it can seriously improve the efficacy of the army.

The Mortal wounds one is a bit more meh, but one thing to consider is that we don't have any protection for mortal wounds outside of shooting attacks. Having that extra roll against vehicle explosions, psychic powers and other out of phase abilities can be quite strong.

The Coinflip to deny a psychic power is very strong. They even nerfed the Iron Hands one because it was so good. The Double Protocols Warlord trait is also quite good. Some of our protocols become very strong when you can use them two turns in a row, for instance using the Action + Shooting on Sudden storm twice is fantastic.

I also like the Artifact a lot more than the Sautekh one. If you are playing Szarkean, it seems like a very easy artifact to take. The bubble for Protocols is nice for a CCB who may be further away, and the benefit of Core untis getting the double directive is also good.

Really, the main ding against the Szarkean Dynasty is just that the Obsec + 6' pregame move and Novokh Dynasties are so strong.

4000+
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+
:Necron: Necron Discord: https://discord.com/invite/AGtpeD4  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I mean, I'm not trying to say the Gospel here, obviously time will tell, but I think Sautekh is straightforwardly brutal. Their power comes from a weird place, in their strat and special character, but it isn't any less real for that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/10 21:45:36


All in all, fact is that Warhammer 40K has never been as balanced as it is now, and codex releases have never been as interesting as they are now (new units and vehicles and tons of new special rules/strategies each release -- not just the same old crap with a few changes in statlines and points costs).

-Therion
_______________________________________

New Codexia's Finest Hour - my fluff about the change between codexes, roughly novel length. 
   
Made in gb
Instigating Incubi




The dark behind the eyes.

I have to say, I'm not sold on the reroll to wound myself.

It seems like something you'd want when you're using squads with 1-2 special or heavy weapons. But we're generally shooting whole squads of decent weapons. Under those circumstances, I don't see a single reroll to wound adding a whole lot.

(I'm open to being proved wrong on this - that' just my gut feeling.)

That said, you also get a 5+++ vs Mortal Wounds. Given that RPs now provide zero protection against psychic attacks, this could be very useful - especially against psyker-heavy armies.


Regarding Mephrit, +3" of range doesn't seem tremendously impressive (I'd rather have Sautekh). Likewise, Necron weapons don't usually want for AP, and after the first couple of pips, extra AP rarely matters. Maybe if you're intending to spam Tesla, but otherwise I woulnd't bother.


Sautekh could make for an interesting list with a lot of Immortals (20 S5 AP-2 shots at 18" is nothing to sneeze at) and maybe Tomb Blades. However, I don't think it's worth it for Warriors (simply because AP-1 bolters aren't very impressive), and there doesn't seem to be much else that derives any significant benefit from it.

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in ca
[DCM]
The World Killer.




The best State-Texas

40kenthusiast wrote:I mean, I'm not trying to say the Gospel here, obviously time will tell, but I think Sautekh is straightforwardly brutal. Their power comes from a weird place, in their strat and special character, but it isn't any less real for that.


Imotekh and Hyperlogic Stragetgist are very strong, don't get me wrong, but I just don't think he pulls enough weight to make up for the really bad code. That being said, I could see a double patrol with two diffrent dynasties if you are going for a big mortal wound bomb style of play. Do one half Sautekh and one half the Obsec + 6' move.

vipoid wrote:I have to say, I'm not sold on the reroll to wound myself.

It seems like something you'd want when you're using squads with 1-2 special or heavy weapons. But we're generally shooting whole squads of decent weapons. Under those circumstances, I don't see a single reroll to wound adding a whole lot.

(I'm open to being proved wrong on this - that' just my gut feeling.)

That said, you also get a 5+++ vs Mortal Wounds. Given that RPs now provide zero protection against psychic attacks, this could be very useful - especially against psyker-heavy armies.


Regarding Mephrit, +3" of range doesn't seem tremendously impressive (I'd rather have Sautekh). Likewise, Necron weapons don't usually want for AP, and after the first couple of pips, extra AP rarely matters. Maybe if you're intending to spam Tesla, but otherwise I woulnd't bother.


Sautekh could make for an interesting list with a lot of Immortals (20 S5 AP-2 shots at 18" is nothing to sneeze at) and maybe Tomb Blades. However, I don't think it's worth it for Warriors (simply because AP-1 bolters aren't very impressive), and there doesn't seem to be much else that derives any significant benefit from it.


Mathematically, the reroll to a wound over the course of a 5 turns is a very significant boost. It's more impactful on the smaller shots units, but it can still add up quite a bit even on our mass fire weapons. The reroll a wound is also the more impactful side of the Master Crafters, so we got the more powerful side of it.

I agree that Mephrit really doesn't impress me right now. The AP is the same as it was last edition, though the shorter boards help. The +3 Range is okay. The Vengeful Stars protocol is really strong though, and this edges it out over Sautekh for me. Their Warlord Trait is also great for a CCB.

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Mephrit would be the go to for Gauss Flayer spam. Always 15" is better than 18" in T1. And unless the amount of power armor in your local meta is really low, you will always get value out of the additional AP. Terminators will become more common, Gravis armor has the +1 armor strat when being attacked by D1 weapons, your tables should have good terrain, so regular dudes in Light Cover with a 2+ ... Mephrit is good.

+1 for Sautekh Immortals, hell yeah.
   
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I currently can't see past Rad-Wreathed and Expansionists for melee crons. Not having the Novokh strat is a real pain but other than that, +1 charges is nice once per game when it actually helps, but I'd much rather have the -1T.

Wraiths wounding Marines on 2's and Flayed Ones wounding GEQ on 2's? Yes please.
   
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The dark behind the eyes.

Acehilator wrote:
Mephrit would be the go to for Gauss Flayer spam. Always 15" is better than 18" in T1.


But it's not 15", is it? It's 13.5".

Or were you talking about Gauss Reapers?

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
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Been Around the Block




 vipoid wrote:

Sautekh could make for an interesting list with a lot of Immortals (20 S5 AP-2 shots at 18" is nothing to sneeze at) and maybe Tomb Blades. However, I don't think it's worth it for Warriors (simply because AP-1 bolters aren't very impressive), and there doesn't seem to be much else that derives any significant benefit from it.


  • Sautekh appears mediocre on Immortals/tomb blades, they already rapidfire at 15" (16.5" in mephrit)

  • Doomsday Arks probably get the most use out of Sautekh. 18" rapid fire flayer arrays and 2+ to hit with methodical destruction. For this reason I feel Sautekh lists are naturally inclined towards mech quantum shielding lists based around doomsday arks, ghost arks and stalkers where you can sit at 2+ to hit with re-rolls 1's to hit

  • Sautekh characters, Imotekh and Zahndrekh, are strong. It's possible there is a list out there that just try's to just mortal wound bomb someone's lines with Imotekh call the storm, C'tan powers, tesla malevolent arcing, psycomancers smites, plasmancers, etc.

  • The vanquisher Mask is no joke on a Skorpekh lord. fight last is difficult for many melee dominant armies to deal with.



  • This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/10 23:06:13


     
       
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    So I wanna do the meme style of all canoptek list (spiders,wraiths/scarab swarms, doomstalkers) with technomancers, and all Destroyer list.

    But I noticed that tomb blades now have a -1 to hit them with range attacks ability. I don't recall that being on them before? they become better immortals for a point less than 2:1 if you give them 3+ armor and twin gauss.

    It's easy to assume that people arguing an interpretation you disagree with are just looking for an advantage for themselves... But it's quite often not the case.  
       
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    Instigating Incubi




    The dark behind the eyes.

    Asymmetric wrote:
     vipoid wrote:

    Sautekh could make for an interesting list with a lot of Immortals (20 S5 AP-2 shots at 18" is nothing to sneeze at) and maybe Tomb Blades. However, I don't think it's worth it for Warriors (simply because AP-1 bolters aren't very impressive), and there doesn't seem to be much else that derives any significant benefit from it.


  • Sautekh appears mediocre on Immortals/tomb blades, they already rapidfire at 15" (16.5" in mephrit)


  • Oh, good point. I completely forgot that Immortals now have extra range on their guns.

    Akiasura wrote:
    I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
     Andilus Greatsword wrote:

    "Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
    "ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



     insaniak wrote:

    You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

    Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
     
       
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    I guess I am in the minority of people who are excited for a Warrior spam list haha. I wanted resculpts for so long, I have to find something to do with the 80 I've got.

    Lots of options though, so I am very excited. Been a long time coming for this army.
       
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    Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





    Nebraska, USA

    oh no i am very much into warrior spam.
    I dont plan to run a list w/o 60 warriors. I only got 70, but im waiting on the rumor start collecting box since it'll also give me the 3rd CDS (if rumors are true).

    The idea of a squad of warriors pumping 40 shots hitting on 2s autowounding on 6s and causing extra hits on 6s amuses me greatly lol

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/11 00:34:33


    An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

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     Vineheart01 wrote:
    oh no i am very much into warrior spam.
    I dont plan to run a list w/o 60 warriors. I only got 70, but im waiting on the rumor start collecting box since it'll also give me the 3rd CDS (if rumors are true).

    The idea of a squad of warriors pumping 40 shots hitting on 2s autowounding on 6s and causing extra hits on 6s amuses me greatly lol


    I haven't seen those rumors, what are the supposed contents? CDS = Canoptek Doomstalker?
       
    Made in us
    Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





    Nebraska, USA

    Yeah the rumor is CDS + Skorp + Overlord + Warriors.

    Far as im aware its just a rumor though as ive only seen people talking about it in necron chats. I got a lot to paint as it is so im fine waiting lol

    An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

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    4000pts Admech/Knights 
       
    Made in fr
    Trazyn's Museum Curator





    on the forum. Obviously

    The Lokhust lord perplexes me.
    Its no longer the beat stick option because that role is taken by the Skorpekh Lord, but it still has its melee options and no real ranged option.

    I guess I have to swap out the scythe for a staff of light now, because paying extra for a build that seems redundant is pointless.

    Maybe they'll update the destroyer lord to be shootier or something, idk.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/11 00:53:33


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