Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

This is what I have come up with at 1500 pts.

Iron Hands Detachment - 425 pts

Chaos lord with power sword
Rubric Squad A - 1 asp sorcerer, 3 with inferno bolters, 1 with Soulreaper cannon
Rubric Squad B - 1 asp sorcerer, 3 with inferno bolters, 1 with Soulreaper cannon
Rubric Squad c - 1 asp sorcerer, 4 with inferno bolters

Thousand Sons detachment - 1075 pts

Ahriman - Temporal Manipulation, Tzeentch firestorm, Weaver of fates
Deamon Prince - Dual Talons, Wings, Flickering Flames, Gaze of fate
Sorcerer in Terminator armor - Warlord (High Magister), Familiar, Glamor of Tzeench, Prescience, Helm of the 3rd Eye

Cultists Squad A - 10 cultists
Cultists Squad B - 10 cultists
Cultists Squad C - 10 cultists

Defiler - Dual laz cannons, scourge
Forgefiend - Dual Hades autocannons, jaws


That gets me to 1500 pts for tournament play. The iron hands deal with cover hiders and elite infantry , the Tsons deal with big targets and other threats. Cultists cover for alpha denial, objective holding.

That's about the best I could do. Obviously iron hands could be swapped for alpha legion if you wanted more deployment options instead of cover denial. Or you could go black legion if you wanted to be able to advance and shoot.

More points would get spent on things to deal with infantry swarms I think. Chaos spawns, or a predator tank, possibly havocs with auto cannons. Things of that nature.

 MinscS2 wrote:


SOT's are imo better most of the time.
That said, I would never field both 1x10 SOT's and 1x20 Rubrics in the same list, as they both desperately want VotLW on the turn they deepstrike.

I'd say that this comparison shows that Rubric Marines are slightly overpriced. 20 of them should not cost more than 10 SOT's, yet they do. And the SOT's are (as most terminators) slightly overpriced already...

I agree that rubrics probably ought to be 18 ppm rather than 20. I think rubrics are very comparable to intercessors and they have been lowered to 18 point per model, and Intercessors are beginning to show up in competitive lists because of that price reduction.

Terminators are struggling in all factions, not because they are too expensive for what they do, but rather because they fold like wet cardboard when targeted by overcharged plasma. The same is true of bikes. Overcharged plasma is simply too good.

With respect to aspiring sorcerees, I think the best casting-order is as follows:

1) Cast Gaze Of Fate with a DP
2) Cast whatever spells with all your aspiring sorcerers, using the reroll as perill-protection
3) Cast Warptime with your terminator-wizard, using the Gaze of fate reroll (if not spend already) to maximize your chances.
4) Cast with your remaining Psykers

That way you will be very unlikely to peril with your aspiring sorcerers or fail warptime.

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
The only issue i see with SOT - if opponent has multi-wound attacks like Tau for example. They are very dead very soon.

But generally i'm thinking running 10 SOT + 30 tzaangors. This case i can deep strike tzaangors for 1CP, not 2CP (because of Rubrics deep strike).

And i agree - we should bring either Rubrics or SOT, not both - they're too expensive and we can not buff them both.

Even with multi wound attacks SOT end up in the same position as Rubrics when it comes to durability.

As long as your in cover with SOT you have a 2+ save vs D1 weapons with AP-2. Against AP -3 your going to see a fairly low shot count, which GoT helps with.

Multi damage weapons have the problem of low shot count out of the gate. Again GoT is helpful here, you still have a 2+ against -1 AP and 3+ vs -2 AP. SOT are very good if you know what your doing with them


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MinscS2 wrote:
SOT's are imo better most of the time.
That said, I would never field both 1x10 SOT's and 1x20 Rubrics in the same list, as they both desperately want VotLW on the turn they deepstrike.

I'd say that this comparison shows that Rubric Marines are slightly overpriced. 20 of them should not cost more than 10 SOT's, yet they do. And the SOT's are (as most terminators) slightly overpriced already...

Agree on everything but the SOT pricing point. I don't think they are too expensive now, given GoT gives them a massuve boost in durability vs the things that kill them the fastest. Even OC plasma will think twice about shooting at them since 1s and 2s are a lost model, and any heavy weapons will be at -2 to hit if they move.

Even if you can't kill things like Tanks/Monsters, if you can shift the BS/WS profile by 1 and apply a -1 your looking at 5+/6+ compared to what would be a 3+/4+ to hit. Even 3 Leman Russ' are looking at .26 wounds per turn with their Battle Cannons.

I want some SOC, but I don't see a way to run them and rubrics at the same time and I prefer the extra guys over doubling up the wounds on a single model. Plasma is bad.

Another point though, all is dust adds 1 to your saving throw if the weapon has a damage profile of 1. That means you get a 4+ invulnerable save vs plasma unless it overcharged at which case it is killing a rubric and a soc the same. Am I wrong in this assessment?

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

Even with multi wound attacks SOT end up in the same position as Rubrics when it comes to durability.

No they don't. A hit from an over charged plasmagun will kill 22 points of Scarab or 11 points of Rubric. Rubrics are much more durable against pretty much any kind of multi-damage weapon.

...do you mean 2.6 wounds with 3 battle cannons?

Going off averages of a D6 roll is a bit squirrely but it ends up around 3.5

3.5 shots each = 10.5 total * .3333 to hit times .8333 to wound, 4+ save because 2+ armor and no all is dust, average of 2 damage. I get 2.9 wounds, but you get 2.5 average if you use 3 as the average of D6. 0.26 wounds would seem highly unlikely. Got is definitely a very solid spell against plasma, but the most common plasma slingers in town right now are scions, who would probably still Go Ahead and Make Your Day -1 to hit or not. Even burning one acion for every dead Sot would be a good trade, and they do get reroll 1s to hit.

In a competitive environment at the moment though the big problem isn't plasma, it's reapers. And sadly, they are immune to glamour (I blame their terrible fashion sense. Wing hats, really?) Until that nerfbat falls, terminators are a no go.

Scarabs don't play like normal terminators. With the amount of spells available to them, you can be pretty sure that they will eliminate one unit in shooting the turn they come down, and they will more than likely charge another unit the same turn (with warptime), especially since we can cast warptime with a +4 bonus. I don't see how they would be in trouble with reapers. And even if they are, it's ok since they will have murdered two units before they die. If they survive, dark matter crystal can beat the hit and run tactic they use.

Scarabs vs rubrics is a very interesting comparison.

Shooting-wise they are pretty much the same. You can pay 20 pts for 1 wound guy with a rapid fire 1 inferno boltgun, or you can pay 40 for a 2 wound guy with a rapid fire 2 inferno boltgun. Their differencies are:

Scarabs have +1 armor, power sword, deep strike and the ability to get hellyfires. Also better protection against perils.

Rubrics have troops and the fact that All is dust is a lot better on them than it is on scarabs. They are also more durable against multiwound weapons. However, their aspiring is like it's not a sorcerer, because 1 perils = 2d3 dead rubrics.

With the points costs as they stand now, I dare say the scarabs bring a lot more to the table. They are also more multi-dimensional. They can play in units of 5 with 2 heavy guns, they can play in big blobs of 10 as buff targets, they can play alpha strike shooting + hth with 2x VotlW in the same turn. Rubrics can either buy an overpriced transport or footslog. They can deepstrike with the stratagem, but their purpose is unclear. If we could have soulreaper cannon in 5 models and maybe a 2 point cost reduction, I could see them as an amazing MSU troop for objective holding (in fact more than amazing for that role).

I take both in my list. It allows me to do pretty much the same thing twice, but at different turns.

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Scarabs don't play like normal terminators. With the amount of spells available to them, you can be pretty sure that they will eliminate one unit in shooting the turn they come down, and they will more than likely charge another unit the same turn (with warptime), especially since we can cast warptime with a +4 bonus. I don't see how they would be in trouble with reapers. And even if they are, it's ok since they will have murdered two units before they die. If they survive, dark matter crystal can beat the hit and run tactic they use.

Scarabs vs rubrics is a very interesting comparison.

Shooting-wise they are pretty much the same. You can pay 20 pts for 1 wound guy with a rapid fire 1 inferno boltgun, or you can pay 40 for a 2 wound guy with a rapid fire 2 inferno boltgun. Their differencies are:

Scarabs have +1 armor, power sword, deep strike and the ability to get hellyfires. Also better protection against perils.

Rubrics have troops and the fact that All is dust is a lot better on them than it is on scarabs. They are also more durable against multiwound weapons. However, their aspiring is like it's not a sorcerer, because 1 perils = 2d3 dead rubrics.

With the points costs as they stand now, I dare say the scarabs bring a lot more to the table. They are also more multi-dimensional. They can play in units of 5 with 2 heavy guns, they can play in big blobs of 10 as buff targets, they can play alpha strike shooting + hth with 2x VotlW in the same turn. Rubrics can either buy an overpriced transport or footslog. They can deepstrike with the stratagem, but their purpose is unclear. If we could have soulreaper cannon in 5 models and maybe a 2 point cost reduction, I could see them as an amazing MSU troop for objective holding (in fact more than amazing for that role).

You don't see how a unit with 2 wounds, a 5++ invuln save, and deep strike, typically deployed in a unit of ten costing nearly 500 points, would be in trouble vs dark reaper spam?

Forewarned is a thing. Sure, you can sacrifice a tzaangor bomb or big rubric block to it first and the scarabs would probably kill a unit or even two as you describe, but then afterwards you're still up against a huge number of models armed with 2-shot S5 AP-3 D2 guns with range "board" and immunity to -1 to hit. The best you get is 4++ against them.

don't get me wrong, scarabs are probably better than rubrics in general. I'm just saying that in the current tournament meta they're basically a no-go, as reapers are essentially the perfect thing to kill them with.

the_scotsman wrote:
...do you mean 2.6 wounds with 3 battle cannons?

Going off averages of a D6 roll is a bit squirrely but it ends up around 3.5

3.5 shots each = 10.5 total * .3333 to hit times .8333 to wound, 4+ save because 2+ armor and no all is dust, average of 2 damage. I get 2.9 wounds, but you get 2.5 average if you use 3 as the average of D6. 0.26 wounds would seem highly unlikely. Got is definitely a very solid spell against plasma, but the most common plasma slingers in town right now are scions, who would probably still Go Ahead and Make Your Day -1 to hit or not. Even burning one acion for every dead Sot would be a good trade, and they do get reroll 1s to hit.

In a competitive environment at the moment though the big problem isn't plasma, it's reapers. And sadly, they are immune to glamour (I blame their terrible fashion sense. Wing hats, really?) Until that nerfbat falls, terminators are a no go.

No I was saying rather then trying to destroy tanks in one go to prevent damage, simply damage them so thier BS gets worse.

So a 4+ BS becomes a 5+ BS with GoT thats a 6+ to hit.

Your right on the math I was off, did 2 for each shot (thinking damage writing shots).

10.5×.165×.825×.5=.714×2

Are they immune or do they ignore them during shooting phase? I always set my SOT on the board turn 1 GoT them then and focus fire an area I want to them to land in. DMC them on turn 2 to the right spot for maximum carnage. Extra points if you can get him to move them since they have a -2 when the SOT come in. Be sure to enjoy the ill conceled panic when he realizes he might kill 4 SOT, but your going to get at least 14 of his DRs. Probably more, if you DS in a Termie sorc.

After they soot at my SOT ill drop on a squad of Rubrics with flamers to close the distance and kill another squad. I can usually get 3 squads in a turn if everything goes right. It almost never does, but what are you going to do.

the_scotsman wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Scarabs don't play like normal terminators. With the amount of spells available to them, you can be pretty sure that they will eliminate one unit in shooting the turn they come down, and they will more than likely charge another unit the same turn (with warptime), especially since we can cast warptime with a +4 bonus. I don't see how they would be in trouble with reapers. And even if they are, it's ok since they will have murdered two units before they die. If they survive, dark matter crystal can beat the hit and run tactic they use.

Scarabs vs rubrics is a very interesting comparison.

Shooting-wise they are pretty much the same. You can pay 20 pts for 1 wound guy with a rapid fire 1 inferno boltgun, or you can pay 40 for a 2 wound guy with a rapid fire 2 inferno boltgun. Their differencies are:

Scarabs have +1 armor, power sword, deep strike and the ability to get hellyfires. Also better protection against perils.

Rubrics have troops and the fact that All is dust is a lot better on them than it is on scarabs. They are also more durable against multiwound weapons. However, their aspiring is like it's not a sorcerer, because 1 perils = 2d3 dead rubrics.

With the points costs as they stand now, I dare say the scarabs bring a lot more to the table. They are also more multi-dimensional. They can play in units of 5 with 2 heavy guns, they can play in big blobs of 10 as buff targets, they can play alpha strike shooting + hth with 2x VotlW in the same turn. Rubrics can either buy an overpriced transport or footslog. They can deepstrike with the stratagem, but their purpose is unclear. If we could have soulreaper cannon in 5 models and maybe a 2 point cost reduction, I could see them as an amazing MSU troop for objective holding (in fact more than amazing for that role).

You don't see how a unit with 2 wounds, a 5++ invuln save, and deep strike, typically deployed in a unit of ten costing nearly 500 points, would be in trouble vs dark reaper spam?

Forewarned is a thing. Sure, you can sacrifice a tzaangor bomb or big rubric block to it first and the scarabs would probably kill a unit or even two as you describe, but then afterwards you're still up against a huge number of models armed with 2-shot S5 AP-3 D2 guns with range "board" and immunity to -1 to hit. The best you get is 4++ against them.

don't get me wrong, scarabs are probably better than rubrics in general. I'm just saying that in the current tournament meta they're basically a no-go, as reapers are essentially the perfect thing to kill them with.

Of course I see it But I can cry about it or see what I can do about it. Obviously the easy answer is "don't take TS to a tournament stupid!" but this is a TS tactics thread. So let's be tactic-y. And when it comes to tactics, there's basically one thing we can do only, and that's an alpha strike bomb. We can do it with scarabs for an all-eggs-in-the-basket approach, or we can do it with tzaangors if we want to preserve points for a couple of anti-tank back in the deployment zone.

Or we can say frick it and bring Magnus and Ahriman and Termi Sorc and practically no units worth protecting and pick all MW powers and go around PEWPEWPEW and still lose anyways but heck, it's fun as frick.

See my previous post.

So at the end i think i'll go with 1 squad of 20 rubrics in deep strike because overcharged plasma just devastates SOT.

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
So at the end i think i'll go with 1 squad of 20 rubrics in deep strike because overcharged plasma just devastates SOT.

Get yourself a dark matter crystal before your 500 pts guys get entangled in hth against zoanthropes :(

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
So at the end i think i'll go with 1 squad of 20 rubrics in deep strike because overcharged plasma just devastates SOT.

And massed heavy bolters or other AP1/AP2 D1 weapons devastates Rubrics.
Honestly, the relevant question is what your local meta is like.
Lots of plasma/reapers? Don't pick SOT's.
Not so much plasma/reapers? Go ahead and pick SOT's.

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
...do you mean 2.6 wounds with 3 battle cannons?

Going off averages of a D6 roll is a bit squirrely but it ends up around 3.5

3.5 shots each = 10.5 total * .3333 to hit times .8333 to wound, 4+ save because 2+ armor and no all is dust, average of 2 damage. I get 2.9 wounds, but you get 2.5 average if you use 3 as the average of D6. 0.26 wounds would seem highly unlikely. Got is definitely a very solid spell against plasma, but the most common plasma slingers in town right now are scions, who would probably still Go Ahead and Make Your Day -1 to hit or not. Even burning one acion for every dead Sot would be a good trade, and they do get reroll 1s to hit.

In a competitive environment at the moment though the big problem isn't plasma, it's reapers. And sadly, they are immune to glamour (I blame their terrible fashion sense. Wing hats, really?) Until that nerfbat falls, terminators are a no go.

No I was saying rather then trying to destroy tanks in one go to prevent damage, simply damage them so thier BS gets worse.

So a 4+ BS becomes a 5+ BS with GoT thats a 6+ to hit.

Your right on the math I was off, did 2 for each shot (thinking damage writing shots).

10.5×.165×.825×.5=.714×2

Are they immune or do they ignore them during shooting phase? I always set my SOT on the board turn 1 GoT them then and focus fire an area I want to them to land in. DMC them on turn 2 to the right spot for maximum carnage. Extra points if you can get him to move them since they have a -2 when the SOT come in. Be sure to enjoy the ill conceled panic when he realizes he might kill 4 SOT, but your going to get at least 14 of his DRs. Probably more, if you DS in a Termie sorc.

After they soot at my SOT ill drop on a squad of Rubrics with flamers to close the distance and kill another squad. I can usually get 3 squads in a turn if everything goes right. It almost never does, but what are you going to do.

in that case, why didn't you just assume that all three of the leman russ tanks would already be at 3 or fewer wounds, and say "3 leman russ tanks do 0 damage with their battlecannons against SOT on average"? After all, that is a pretty common situation to be in.

They are effectively immune, unless you are an army with a -1 to hit trait and you drop something outside of 12" of them, because Forewarned applies immediately when the unit arrives from reserves. This tactic of setting them on the board and crystal-ing them in works in reducing the average casualties from Forewarned to 4.5 from 6.3, but I still think just chucking a tzaangor blob in first and making them pick is probably the best option.

The way Forewarned functions, (and I always advise rules-lawyering this stratagem if your opponent is running reaperspam) he must immediately choose after you deep strike a unit whether or not to use the stratagem. So you deep strike in your tzaangors (or a unit of rubrics) and hold your SOTs. you ask your opponent "are you using Forewarned" because now he must decide. if he does, tank it, and drop the SOTs, if he opts not to, end your movement phase and hold the SOTs to next turn. And make damn sure that unit with the farseer dies.

For the record though, me thinking SOTs are a suboptimal choice vs one particular meta unit does not equal me saying Thousand Sons should never be taken to a tournament. I just think there are so many instances of scion plasma+Basilisks and reaperspam lists in the current meta that while SOTs have a slight edge in a vacuum, Rubrics are a better option at the present moment. They do similar things, with very slight differences, and right now the difference of being 1 wound favors the rubrics against common tournament list setups.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MinscS2 wrote:

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
So at the end i think i'll go with 1 squad of 20 rubrics in deep strike because overcharged plasma just devastates SOT.

And massed heavy bolters or other AP1/AP2 D1 weapons devastates Rubrics.
Honestly, the relevant question is what your local meta is like.
Lots of plasma/reapers? Don't pick SOT's.
Not so much plasma/reapers? Go ahead and pick SOT's.

^this.

if you're going to a big tournament, the latter probably applies. Bring the rubric bomb. Warpflamers are delicious against reapers. 20 rubrics with several warpflamers and 2 soulreapers plus a tzaangor bomb is our best setup vs current meta stuff. Don't forget to screen your gunline with cultists or brims for the deep strike alpha mirror match.

I'm also thinking about trying 2xDefilers OR 3xPredators but i have none of them right now, so need to ses which one works better before buying and painting.
Killshot works nice but i do not see very possible that all 3 Predators will survive for a long time. Defilers are less killy but it might survive better

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
I'm also thinking about trying 2xDefilers OR 3xPredators but i have none of them right now, so need to ses which one works better before buying and painting.
Killshot works nice but i do not see very possible that all 3 Predators will survive for a long time. Defilers are less killy but it might survive better

Defilers look better to me. First of all, rerolling the battle cannon shots with gaze of fate is one of the best uses of a reroll for a turn we can get. A defiler with 4+ battlecannon shots is better than a las predator. Add to it the improved survivability, the close combat capacity and the fact that it's a daemon (so it can get flickering flames AND Votlw at the same time to wound land raiders on a 2+) and we got a winner I think. But not for spamming. I find 1 defiler and 2 predators to be better than 3 of anyone of them. Babysit them with an exalted on foot with temporal manipulation and diabolical strength and there's the gunline.

I think if I was going to take two preds it'd make little sense to take a defiler over a third one. Yes, you'll lose one almost immediately but you'll still get a Killshot off in about 60% of your games (I almost always get the +1 to go first with Tsons)

I think in most situations I'd rather have two defilers though. Or one defiler one heldrake. I think the heldrake is underappreciated in our arsenal. It's the only non deep strike element we have that can immediately participate turn 1 with our alpha elements.

 MinscS2 wrote:

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
So at the end i think i'll go with 1 squad of 20 rubrics in deep strike because overcharged plasma just devastates SOT.

And massed heavy bolters or other AP1/AP2 D1 weapons devastates Rubrics.
Honestly, the relevant question is what your local meta is like.
Lots of plasma/reapers? Don't pick SOT's.
Not so much plasma/reapers? Go ahead and pick SOT's.

But the thing is, while heavy bolters and assault cannons are more effective vs rubrics than scarabs, neither is really super-effective against either. Overcharged plasma on the other hand makes Scarabs fold like wet cardboard. And plasma is not a niche weapon this edition, it is everywhere. The same is true of rokkits, missile launchers, last cannons etc. All of those will easily kill either a rubric or a scarab, but the latter is twice as expensive.

Apart from that I think that Scarabs has a number of advantages. They arrive in rapid-fire range, they don't need an assault screen, and you can use a max-size units without spending CPs on morale-autopass. The latter is pretty huge.

I think both of the aspiring sorcerers need Gaze of Fate as perill-protection. No difference there.

Gaze is only a demon power so unless you burn a command point to switch it out aspiring sorcerors can’t get it

demontalons wrote:
Gaze is only a demon power so unless you burn a command point to switch it out aspiring sorcerors can’t get it

True, but for me personally, a Deamon Prince (warlord for the 3++) will more or less always be a part of my list.
I love everything about them: combat-mage, fluff, model and rules. Hence I will always have Gaze of Fate (the only no-brainer power for him) available to me.

I also thinks he meant that he needs the GoF for his Aspiring Sorcerers in general, not that he actually gives them GoF.
Even if they could take it, giving them GoF would be counter-productive as they would risk PotW, manifesting a power that...helps them against PotW?
Might as well not manifest anything at all then.

demontalons wrote:
Gaze is only a demon power so unless you burn a command point to switch it out aspiring sorcerors can’t get it

As Minsc2 points out the trick is to cast Gaze of Fate first, then cast with all your aspiring sorcerers having both rerolls to protect against peril, and then proceed to cast with your remaining psykers.

demontalons wrote:
Gaze is only a demon power so unless you burn a command point to switch it out aspiring sorcerors can’t get it

Yes, but it is extremely easy to get on the board. Include/summon Changeling (guards Magnus, Englightened, Daemon Engines and casts GOF) or include a daemon prince, or give it to magnus.

I've been looking at possibilities of Chaos soup, death guard, and straight daemons, but I've settled on doing a flying circus army with just the Thousand Sons codex.

Now that I've settled on a 'dex, I need some suggestions. What's an appropriate amount of DP's to make a somewhat competitive flying circus list? I don't want to include Magnus, but I could do a Lord of Change. I'm thinking about a 2000 point list.

Also, what would be best for support? I have 30 rubrics that I break into 3 squads for a battalion, but I assume I need some firepower that the Daemon Princes can't provide on their own.

the_scotsman wrote:

In that case, why didn't you just assume that all three of the leman russ tanks would already be at 3 or fewer wounds, and say "3 leman russ tanks do 0 damage with their battlecannons against SOT on average"? After all, that is a pretty common situation to be in.

Because I was talking about DSing SOT. So you have one round of shooting to do as much damage as possible to help curb the damage your going to take next turn/round.

They are effectively immune, unless you are an army with a -1 to hit trait and you drop something outside of 12" of them, because Forewarned applies immediately when the unit arrives from reserves. This tactic of setting them on the board and crystal-ing them in works in reducing the average casualties from Forewarned to 4.5 from 6.3, but I still think just chucking a tzaangor blob in first and making them pick is probably the best option.

lucas wrote:
I've been looking at possibilities of Chaos soup, death guard, and straight daemons, but I've settled on doing a flying circus army with just the Thousand Sons codex.

Now that I've settled on a 'dex, I need some suggestions. What's an appropriate amount of DP's to make a somewhat competitive flying circus list? I don't want to include Magnus, but I could do a Lord of Change. I'm thinking about a 2000 point list.

Also, what would be best for support? I have 30 rubrics that I break into 3 squads for a battalion, but I assume I need some firepower that the Daemon Princes can't provide on their own.

in 8th edition hordes are rewarded a lot, so play a flying circus with few models isn't a great idea in my opinion, btw i guess you should include at least 4 Dp's , 1+loc in demon batt detachment and 3 more in supreme command det, Btw for me is a fragile list when the 30 rubrics are gone your Dp's will be shooted down pne after another, at maelstrom you might have issues, if opponent play lot of obj sec troops you cant disloge them from obj and they deny you control of them, i ve seen lot and lot of chaos soup lists playing 100+ models with obj sec and tons of firepower, btw hope you will get better with your flying circus.

It looks like both Ribrics and SOT have their issues - morale for rubrics, plasma for SOT :(

I think i'm still going forward with Rubrics for now because i can spend 2CP to autopass but i can not fix plasma

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
It looks like both Ribrics and SOT have their issues - morale for rubrics, plasma for SOT :(

I think i'm still going forward with Rubrics for now because i can spend 2CP to autopass but i can not fix plasma

There is another (partial) fix for Rubrics morale issues, and that is to take them in squads of ten. In squads of ten they are somewhat less susceptible to morale losses.

But in ten-man squads they also gain less from Prescience and Veterans of the Long War. One of the great advantages of maximum rubrics or maximum scarabs is that you can buff 400+ points of models with a single spell or stratagem. When buffing tzaangors, enlightened, daemon princes or pink horrors you are only applying the buff to around half that amount of points. I am personally leaning in favour of Rubrics, but I can see the arguments for Scarabs as well.

Hmm was it this weekend for our FAQ? Seems like it will be late.