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What's up everyone? I need an army to a big tournament in 2 months and right now I'm not sure whether I should get Eldar or Nids. Eldar are new and shiny but Nids have that raw power that can't be denied, and would likely be a better contender for the big win. Rate this army.

Tyranids 1750p

HQ:

Hive Tyrant: 2x TL Devourer, +BS, +S, Miasma, Implants, Wings, Scream

Hive Tyrant: TL Devourer, VCannon, +BS, +S, Scream

2x Tyrant Guard

Elites:

Carnifex: 2x TL Devourer, +BS

Carnifex: 2x TL Devourer, +BS

Carnifex: 2x TL Devourer, +BS

Troops:

11x Spinegaunt

11x Spinegaunt

11x Spinegaunt

11x Spinegaunt

10x Termagant

10x Termagant

Fast Attack:

1x Ravener: Talons, Claws

1x Ravener: Talons, Claws

1x Ravener: Talons, Claws

Heavy Support:

Carnifex: VCannon, Strangler, +BS, +W, Hooks

Carnifex: VCannon, Strangler, +BS, +W, Hooks

1x Zoanthrope: Synapse, Scream

1x Zoanthrope: Blast, Scream

1x Zoanthrope: Blast, Synapse

your list is pretty strong but i think some of the points go into places you dont need them. like giving your hive tyrant implants, thats not needed, he is a monster and will pretty much kill everything he attacks, besides if you want him to be assault make him all assault, not to sure about flesh hooks on fexes with 2 guns, but i dont know if those are just filler or not for you, i think you might want to put in a lot more syanpse too, since i think one of your moves is going to be have the raveners follow the winged hive tyrant, the only problem is if you face a list that has a lot of plasma guns becaue then the enemy can down the tyrant and your raveners are left unprotected, tyrant guard are nice but the points could be used for something else, i would personally drop them and a fex and pick up some warriors, a venom cannon and death spitter squad can be quite deadly. overall i think the list is pretty nice though would like to hear how it does if you use it, since i play nids as well.

He needs the implants for sure since he only attacks 4 times on the charge. Your approach about going all out is wrong, since 12 S5 BS4 re-roll hits re-roll wounds ranged attacks are going to cause more wounds against absolutely anything than one or two extra close combat attacks. So, even when assaulting shooting first and then going in is the better option. I have 4 synapse in an army that doesn't really need it, considering the Gaunts are a distraction and the rest do well without it. Thanks for comments.

Your list is, as expected, quite solid.

I'm not personally sold on taking a Zoey without Scream. If you're doing the Choir why not go for the full five screams and just leave one Zoey with Synapse?

I understand that you have a LOT of gaunts, so you need extra Synapse, but if that's the case I'd bite the bullet and take x2 Synapse/Scream Zoeys.

Everything else is perfectly armed and configured. The only thing I'd recommend you consider is the +1 WS upgrade on your Gunfexes. It's only 8 points (for both) but it makes them much less vulnerable when fighting against the hidden powerfist (and its relatively cheap). If you switch your Zoey configuration to x2 Scream/Synapses then you'd have the extra points (I belive) to take these upgrades.


Besides that, good luck and god speed!

Looks solid to me...I don't see any fat to trim. It's pretty much a by-the-book Godzilla army, but with Gaunts instead of 'Stealers. And I like that...they're a much more flexible and cost-effective unit. I never understood why so many people got down on Gaunts.

Posted By gorgon on 02/14/2007 6:20 PM
Looks solid to me...I don't see any fat to trim. It's pretty much a by-the-book Godzilla army, but with Gaunts instead of 'Stealers. And I like that...they're a much more flexible and cost-effective unit. I never understood why so many people got down on Gaunts.

Perhaps because stealers are easier to play with than gaunts?

You don't have to worry about Synapse range, especially in Escalation when your Tyrants have to start of the board.

Also, with this army configuration if a MC does manage to get himself charged by the enemy, you only have the Raveners and other MCs to jump in and finish off the atttacking unit.

While this is certainly not hard to do, it does require that whatever MCs charge in to help out lose their shooting for the turn. . .and anything that sucks shooting out of this army is a bad thing.

However, with all those gaunts he should (with skill) be able to head off any potential chargers with waves of Gaunts and attack them at his leisure.

 

Ultimately I think that the Gaunt choir is more effective, but requires more skill to use than the Stealer choir.

I think the list is really strong.  Really like all the troops, no stealers is rather interesting/different. 

Implants is a good idea on the Tyrant, hooks are filler points I'd wager.  I hate a Flyrant personally, but that is because its effective :p

But, the list is formed around the same Zilla mold as all the others I've seen and for that matter played.  Same ole cupcake, different icing.  The real difference I see is the troops as I've said.  Tons of MC will win many many games, playing DE, I don't have nearly as much trouble with it, but its a very tough army to crack.  But, the reason why the list is so prevalent is because it works.

Not sure what the rules of the tournament you're attending, but I think Best General is well within range.  Just be aware that Zilla nids like certain other armies get a horrible reputation and sometimes get killed on scores after you crush your opponent.  I always liked rating before the game rather than based on the game, but I think the outcome of the game should not have a bearing on sportsmanship much.  Good loser/poor winner aside.  If I was scoring comp, it would hard not to rip the army in a few areas.  I would like to see Raveners together for once, not 3 assasin units.

Honestly, the Eldar would be more of a challenge for your skill from what I've read.  Zilla nids just roll over many armies, especially if you are remotely good at tactics.  I'd like to see what you would make for Eldar and decide.

The only thing I would worry about is the Termagants.

They will get ahead of your synapse, and that might be a problem.

Other than that, it is a solid list.

Posted By jesterzdragon on 02/14/2007 6:43 PM
Not sure what the rules of the tournament you're attending, but I think Best General is well within range.  Just be aware that Zilla nids like certain other armies get a horrible reputation and sometimes get killed on scores after you crush your opponent.  I always liked rating before the game rather than based on the game, but I think the outcome of the game should not have a bearing on sportsmanship much.  Good loser/poor winner aside.  If I was scoring comp, it would hard not to rip the army in a few areas.  I would like to see Raveners together for once, not 3 assasin units.

I think in Finland they consider comp to be up there with Communist invasions on their list of things of which they are not fans.

That's about right Mannahnin! We're always prepared to prevent that kind of thing from happening.

In that case, this list owns!  My wife uses a similar list, but she likes stealers, and she uses a Biovore, but that is imo, because I play DE and she can blow me up to little chunks.

I made a small adjustment to the Gaunts that allowed me a fourth Ravener. Yakface: The Zoanthrope configurations are now in a 'balanced' setting meaning I have three different combinations, and playtesting will show if I need to make any changes. And yes, the Flesh Hooks are a filler because there's two points hanging loose. Once in a hundred battles I might be able to deploy hidden behind impassable terrain and then just walk on top of it on my turn and open fire.

Tyranids 1750p

HQ:

Hive Tyrant: 2x TL Devourer, +BS, +S, Miasma, Implants, Wings, Scream

Hive Tyrant: TL Devourer, VCannon, +BS, +S, Scream

2x Tyrant Guard

Elites:

Carnifex: 2x TL Devourer, +BS

Carnifex: 2x TL Devourer, +BS

Carnifex: 2x TL Devourer, +BS

Troops:

10x Spinegaunt

10x Spinegaunt

10x Spinegaunt

10x Spinegaunt

10x Spinegaunt

10x Spinegaunt

Fast Attack:

2x Ravener: Talons, Claws

1x Ravener: Talons, Claws

1x Ravener: Talons, Claws

Heavy Support:

Carnifex: VCannon, Strangler, +BS, +W, Hooks

Carnifex: VCannon, Strangler, +BS, +W, Hooks

1x Zoanthrope: Synapse, Scream

1x Zoanthrope: Blast, Scream

1x Zoanthrope: Blast, Synapse

I'm not sold on your snapse to gaunt ratio. It seems to me that it won't be hard to blast your zoeys off the board (they die to S 9 and above now, right?) and then work on your tyrants. Also, fexes are cool, but is it that hard to force them to take armor saves? I mean, with a 3+ and 4 wounds, you'd think that they'd be hardy, but look at the math: T6 vs S4 bolters, 3s to hit and 6s to wound, gives you a 1/9 chance to force a save. So, that's 1/27 wounds per single bolter shot. Two squads double tapping do two wounds and add in the special weapons and you're looking at a wiped fex per turn per pair of tac squads. Also, how is your mobility? Aside from the flyrant and gaunts (sort of) I don't see anything that moves all that fast. It's certainly a strong list and I'm sure that there are ways to counter act what I'm pointing out, so think of this as a devil's advocate kind of post
cheers

The new synpase prevents instant death, and zoeys have 2+ saves.

Also two marine squads with specials are 320pts a dakkafex is 113pts. And what does the tac squads do next turn when the three raveners hit them?

The Godzilla list is hard as nails.


The only thing that will hurt you is playing against a shooty army in an escalation mission.

Posted By yakface on 02/14/2007 6:27 PM

Ultimately I think that the Gaunt choir is more effective, but requires more skill to use than the Stealer choir.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist, either.  Yet I see posts on some forums asking whether Gaunt armies are dead. 

The basic synapse mechanic has been around for a long time.  Perhaps it's just because I'm an old fart (12+ years with Tyranids) that I can't understand players who throw up their hands when faced with dealing with synapse and overlook just how good Gaunts still are, pound-for-pound.  Not that I don't understand how 'stealers work within the context of a Godzilla list, because I do.

Synapse is the easiest thing in the world to control as you can either build long chains from your units or just move your army forward in one or two 'bubbles'. Gaunt armies being dead is the funniest thing I ever heard. Me and Longshot debated this for pages and pages long ago right here on Dakka and I think we both decided that Genestealers are far inferior to Gaunts because when you buy Genestealers you can't force your enemy to stop shooting at big bugs, and Gaunts dying brings a smile to the Tyranid player's face because its the most points efficient wound in the game. You much rather have a Predator Destructor shooting at Gaunts, than Genestealers, or Carnifexes, and if you can control your enemy and dictate what he has to shoot at you are going for a massacre win.

The one bad thing about taking such tiny units of Spinegaunts is that you really lose some of the long Synapse chains you can create with larger broods. You'll have to keep pulling off the front gaunts as casualties in order to maintain the link, and that can reduce your chance to charge a unit when you really need to.

Have you considered taking 4 units of 15 instead of 6 units of 10 for just this reason?


Lastly, having some Termagaunts like you had in the original list seemed like a good idea to me (it fits well with the shooty choir concept). Although you lose some bodies (and you provide your opponent with some juicier gaunt targets), you gain the ability to have another unit in the army that can try to plunk down a Landspeeder, or last man in a unit, etc.

You can't go wrong with Spinegaunts, but a couple broods of Termagaunts in a choir list have really grown on me.

I like the extra ravener, but I agree with Yak, 4 big vs 6 smaller is iffy to me.  It fills the org slots sure, but the only thing it brings you is 2 more independent units.  You are likely going to have to pull from the front as Yak said to stay within Synapse as well.

Overall I liked the first list more than the second.  Test it out and let us know.  I like larger broods for nids fodder personally, but to each their own.  I also liked the fact that all the troops were not the same, now they are I think a mix of gaunts is a good thing, not a detriment.

Units of 15 are too large already. Think how long they unit will be if you deploy and move them with 2" between each model to mitigate template damage? To satisfy the idea of Termagants and of slightly larger units I could reform 6 x 10 Spinegaunts into 3 x 12 Spinegaunts and 2 x 10 Termagants for the same points. That's only 4 Gaunts less than before. On the other hand, I hear good things about minimum sized Spinegaunt units as well, so go figure. In any case, the list could look like this:

Tyranids 1750p

HQ:

Hive Tyrant: 2x TL Devourer, +BS, +S, Miasma, Implants, Wings, Scream 189p

Hive Tyrant: TL Devourer, VCannon, +BS, +S, Scream 159p

2x Tyrant Guard 90p

Elites:

Carnifex: 2x TL Devourer, +BS 113p

Carnifex: 2x TL Devourer, +BS 113p

Carnifex: 2x TL Devourer, +BS 113p

Troops:

12x Spinegaunt 60p

12x Spinegaunt 60p

12x Spinegaunt 60p

10x Termagant 60p

10x Termagant 60p

Fast Attack:

2x Ravener: Talons, Claws 80p

1x Ravener: Talons, Claws 40p

1x Ravener: Talons, Claws 40p

Heavy Support:

Carnifex: VCannon, Strangler, +BS, +W, Hooks 164p

Carnifex: VCannon, Strangler, +BS, +W, Hooks 164p

2x Zoanthrope: Synapse, Scream 110p

1x Zoanthrope: Blast, Scream 65p

There's 10 points to spare if I go Yakface's way and take the full five screams and only one Warp Blast. Acid Maw for the flying Tyrant? Drop the Flesh Hooks and buy Implant Attack for the walking Tyrant? Buy Spore Banks for the Carnifexes? Buy 2 Spinegaunts? Equip 2 Raveners with Thorax mounted weapons? Drop a Ravener and buy a third Tyrant Guard?

If I was running a flying tyrant, I would run him as a close combat (Dual talons) along with the gaunts.

Spore banks are a 'very bad idea' on a fex.

At a recent tourney, I liked having units of 20 and 22 gaunts. They allowed a huge chain around my mounstrous creatures to defend against pods. (Though the guy whined about it).

Posted By Therion- on 02/15/2007 7:06 PM

Units of 15 are too large already. Think how long they unit will be if you deploy and move them with 2" between each model to mitigate template damage? To satisfy the idea of Termagants and of slightly larger units I could reform 6 x 10 Spinegaunts into 3 x 12 Spinegaunts and 2 x 10 Termagants for the same points. That's only 4 Gaunts less than before. On the other hand, I hear good things about minimum sized Spinegaunt units as well, so go figure.

I do know how far a 10 Spinegaunt unit can stretch. Just about 28". However, as I pointed out before, once you do that, any casualties you suffer are going to have to be pulled from the very front of the unit, sometimes denying you the chance to charge. 12 per brood will help a little bit.

You'll also be thankful you took more gaunts per brood in Escalation missions where you need to keep your Zoeys hidden in or behind a forest until the Tyrants arrive. With the Zoeys anchored to terrain, the extra gaunts will still allow you to move the unit forward without too many problems if you choose.

 

Acid Maw is a fine upgrade for absolutely insuring those ICs you charge get dead immediately.

Any CC upgrades to the walking Tyrant would be better put into another Tyrant Guard model IMO.

Spore Banks? I'm assuming you'd never consider the horrific Spore Cysts, so I'm thinkg you mean 'Spine' Banks. They're okay, but since you'll likely only use them for one round of firing per game (if that) I would go with other options instead.

More Spinegaunts are always a good thing.

Thorax mounted weapons on the Raveners? Again, just not all that useful.

Now, dropping a Ravener for another Guard is a good buy in my book (and one that I would do). With all the Gaunts you have in your army absolutely ensuring that you'll always have a solid Synapse core. Plus, a Tyrant Guard is just as good in the counter-assault role as the Ravener. Sure they're not as fast, but if you're keeping most of your MCs roughly together in a firebase, your Tyrant/Guard unit should be able to see incoming threats and move to a position that they can counter-assault ahead of time.

So my vote is for (in descending order):

1) Extra Tyrant Guard instead of a Ravener.

2) Acid Maw on the winged Tyrant.

3) More Spinegaunts.

 

 

Sorry for taking so long to reply. Im spending my winter holiday snowboarding, and im now browsing the forum with my phone. Yakface I agree with everything you said and will definately add the Guard. One last question though:

...How would you change the list to make it fit 1500 and 1850 points, while keeping the same theme going?

For 1,850 your choices are really limited since you've already gotten all the good stuff in. Basically you either add more gaunts to the units or you add more Raveners (or some of each).

Also, I don't think its a bad idea when you have the extra points to give your Gunfexes the +1WS upgrade as it makes them less likely to suffer powerfist wounds from the hidden powerfist on those occassions where you do decide to counter-assault an enemy unit.

The same is true of flesh hooks on all your Carnifexes (and Tyrant Guard). At only one point per pop they really are too good a deal not to take if you have the extra points.


Going down to 1500 is almost as easy, since you know you don't want to lose any of your major players. That means you lose 1 Ravener, you lose 1-2 Tyrant Guard and you lose a bunch of Gaunts.