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Yes. I already own 8 Castellax, 3 Vorax, 3 Thanatar-Cynis, and 3 Vultarax automata.

I also have a ton of Ordo Reductor stuff - honestly, if they brought the Auxilia Myrmidon into 40k, I'd die of happiness.

And hoplites will have 2++ invulns.... and the roads will be paved with cogs.

There will also be rules for Dark Mechanicum, with the Chaos keyword. And Archmagos Draykavac on his Abeyant will have 10" movement and reroll 1s during shooting and fighting.

And arkhan land will come back. So sayeth the omnissiah!

Suzuteo wrote:
There will also be rules for Dark Mechanicum, with the Chaos keyword. And Archmagos Draykavac on his Abeyant will have 10" movement and reroll 1s during shooting and fighting.

They already have a Dark Mechanicus Hellwright on Abeyant rule.

But he doesn't have anything cool. He sort of just dicks around, and taking the Dark Mechanicus instead of Legion keyword for him just makes it worse, as he has even less stuff he can repair.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:
There will also be rules for Dark Mechanicum, with the Chaos keyword. And Archmagos Draykavac on his Abeyant will have 10" movement and reroll 1s during shooting and fighting.

They already have a Dark Mechanicus Hellwright on Abeyant rule.

But he doesn't have anything cool. He sort of just dicks around, and taking the Dark Mechanicus instead of Legion keyword for him just makes it worse, as he has even less stuff he can repair.

I meant for every AdMech model. The only difference being that your faction keyword is Chaos and not Imperium. So you can bring Renegade Knights and Guard.

Renegade Knights and IG already exist.

It's literally Mechanicum who have no Dark variant. *weep*

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Renegade Knights and IG already exist.

It's literally Mechanicum who have no Dark variant. *weep*

That's sort of the point...

Sigh. This horse is pretty dead.

Suzuteo wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Renegade Knights and IG already exist.

It's literally Mechanicum who have no Dark variant. *weep*

That's sort of the point...

Sigh. This horse is pretty dead.

We can rebuild it. We have the technology.

Well, in fairness renegades and heretics previously had some customization options that gave it an admech feel. Wasn't perfect but it worked alright.

I think this last chapter approved made it pretty clear that GW does not want Forgeworld stomping tournaments anymore. GW wants their plastic game to be almost a competitive game, instead of some kind of 'who has the most resin' contest. Were GW to release some kind of Fires of Ciraxus book with wildy OP resin mechanicum models ... you can expect a nerf of all those rules within 2 months of release.

Also, if you play for the coolness of the models not the power of the rules, Admech is in a fine place now. All the non-competitive models are less horrendous thanks to chapter approved. Kataphrons are still cool. They are just baddish.

EDIT: you know what I want more than fires of Ciraxus? A patch for the plastic models. We need a few new things:

(1) Skitarii Ranger/Vanguard HQs, 3 wounds, characters, 40 points, same equipment options, 3 attacks
(2) Sicarian HQ, 4 wounds, 50 points, same equipment options, 4/5 attacks based on equip
(3) ArchMagos strategem: for 3CP, upgrade your TDP to an arch magos and get the full reroll to hit aura.
(4) 'scout' for skitarii/sicarians just like the vanguard move from the sister's fast attack models

 ph34r wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Renegade Knights and IG already exist.

It's literally Mechanicum who have no Dark variant. *weep*

That's sort of the point...

Sigh. This horse is pretty dead.

We can rebuild it. We have the technology.

Lol, nothing is more 40k than beating a dead horse, ressurecting it in servitor form, and beating it to death again.

gendoikari87 wrote:

 ph34r wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Renegade Knights and IG already exist.

It's literally Mechanicum who have no Dark variant. *weep*

That's sort of the point...

Sigh. This horse is pretty dead.

We can rebuild it. We have the technology.

Lol, nothing is more 40k than beating a dead horse, ressurecting it in servitor form, and beating it to death again.

Well, I guess this thread is the most 40k thing ever then.

 Marius Xerxes wrote:

Octovol wrote:

 Marius Xerxes wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Which army the free relic goes to is decided by who your warlord is, but you can use the stratagem to pay for a relic from any faction (so long as you have a detachment to unlock stratagems with, of course).

All this is covered in the Death Guard FAQ as a general answer to a question that used CSM and DG as the example.

Q: If my army is led by a Chaos Space Marines Warlord, and
I have a Detachment of Death Guard, can I use the Gifts of
Decay Death Guard Stratagem to include a Relic on a Death
Guard Character?

A: Yes. The only requirement to have access to
Stratagems is that you have a Detachment of the
appropriate Faction. If you have a Death Guard
Detachment, you have access to their Stratagems.

In this case, the Warlord is clearly a CSM character, but the DG stratagem was used to give a DG character a relic. The Warlord was not a determining factor in who got what.

No. Just no. What you're basically saying is that the rules in the codex for assigning a relic to a model are ignored when using a strategm of the same codex because the strategm itself doesnt say you explicitly have to follow the rules in the codex.

This kind of shenanegans is why the tournament going elite are so frowned upon and why your opinions and values on matters are oftentimes not respected.

There is no way in hell i would allow that ruling in any game i participate in. Doesn't matter what your interpretation of the ruling is, it's not RAW and It is 100% not intended and you are 100% taking advantage of the wording of the strategm not repeating the wording in the codex.

I didn't write the FAQ, GW did.

And its explicit. Its asks "can you do this" and their response is an emphatic "yes". I don't know how you get it being "unintended" when its a straight forward question with a crystal clear answer.

Its pointless to come after me for it like I had something to do with it. I'd also refrain on assuming that because I copy and pasted a GW FAQ that I am some kind of "tournament elite" who's opinion is to be frowned upon.

The FAQ says you can use the strategm, it does not say that the strategm ignores the rules for giving relics to models. "extra relic" implies you already have one, but also implies that it's just an extra relic regardless of where your first came from. Ambiguity which I firmly believe is unintended. No-one in their right mind would allow an army list to have multiple options for regaining CP from the same action. We had to house rule our 2k doubles that each of us which a CP regaining ability had to nominate one of the 2 opponents that would trigger the ability or we would have an artificially greater chance of regaining CP than usual.

You do what you want, but i wont be taking part in a battle where such cretinous abuse of the rules takes place and I will have a suitably diminished opinion of anyone who advocates the use of such abuse.

--

On an unrelated note: Interesting point on BoLS today that CA included no points updates to Tau. Which may or may not indicate that their codex is close at hand. Which may or may not indicate that fires of cyraxus is closeR at hand.

Wulfey wrote:

EDIT: you know what I want more than fires of Ciraxus? A patch for the plastic models. We need a few new things:

(1) Skitarii Ranger/Vanguard HQs, 3 wounds, characters, 40 points, same equipment options, 3 attacks
(2) Sicarian HQ, 4 wounds, 50 points, same equipment options, 4/5 attacks based on equip
(3) ArchMagos strategem: for 3CP, upgrade your TDP to an arch magos and get the full reroll to hit aura.
(4) 'scout' for skitarii/sicarians just like the vanguard move from the sister's fast attack models

5) Transport

Boy I'm a bit more ambitious than you guys. From Fires, I'd like:

A full port of the 30k units to 40k, including new troops, tanks, flyers, heavy support, transports, and other machines.

A way to build a dark mechanicus army out of same, possibly a return of Anacharis Scoria.

new stratagems/other neato stuff.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Boy I'm a bit more ambitious than you guys. From Fires, I'd like:

A full port of the 30k units to 40k, including new troops, tanks, flyers, heavy support, transports, and other machines.

A way to build a dark mechanicus army out of same, possibly a return of Anacharis Scoria.

new stratagems/other neato stuff.

We know we are getting Thantars from previous Forgeworld Day presentations. I also think we will get Secutarii Units and the Ordinatus LoWs because they previously had 7th rules.

Two things though:

1. We are sharing the book with Red Scorpions, so we can expect them to take up a few unit slots.

2. GW seems to be taking the stand of limiting ForgeWorld's competitive use to not scare away new / casual players. If they doubled the codex units by fully integrating 30k there will be massive pressure for players to buy resin which I dont think is their current strategy.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I hate to say it but I want to play mechanicus (see my post about my 30k army!) but with so few unit options I just can't get around the 40k list.

I look at it and I'm like "These look awesome! But... there's just not enough stuff that inspires me."

Like I feel inspired by the Battle Servitors, but there's not really any way in which they're better / more synergetic than Skitarii or Robots or Onagers. I like the Robots, but they seem so mono-dimensional (by design) compared to their 30k counterparts. I think the Onager is pretty neat, but the vehicle just doesn't impress me the way a Leman Russ does; it's "neato thing" is that it has a 5++. Compared to last edition, when its neato thing was that it could have a Dreadnought CCW as well as Russ-ish firepower... well, I'm not impressed, really.

That sort of thing.

Their battle servitors are my favorite models. I have 9 breachers and 9 destroyers. The good news if you can fill up a 2000pts list reaaally quickly with just a few models, which makes transporting them super easy! Play Admech for the rule of cool and no matter how badly they screw up certain models (looking at you ruststalkers) you can still play them and be happy knowing how cool they look.

Well, Breachers are 120 per 3 models. So... Battalion spam? I mean, here's a skeleton:

Stygies Battalion Detachment - 199

HQ - 94
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer

Troop - 105
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle

Stygies Battalion Detachment - 199

HQ - 94
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer

Troop - 105
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle

Agripinaa Battalion Detachment - 1030

HQ - 172
1x Tech-Priest Dominus
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer

Troop - 858
6x Kataphron Breacher - 6x Heavy Arc Rifle, 6x Arc Claw
6x Kataphron Breacher - 6x Heavy Arc Rifle, 6x Arc Claw
6x Kataphron Destroyer - 6x Plasma Culverin, 6x Phosphor Blaster

Total: 1428 points
9 Command Points

I think you'd want to split the destroyers, as 6 is too many to bring back with stratagem points.

6 is 20 Power Level and actually exactly enough for 3 CP.

Doing a damage chart. Turns out - vanguard are pretty amazing as long as they don't fight terminators. They are better antitank than Neutron

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Doing a damage chart. Turns out - vanguard are pretty amazing.

what is really amazing is their efficiency against tanks even with just the radium carbines. Point for point the radium carbine is more efficient at killing tanks than a neutronager. Sure against tanks they only wound on a 6..... know what also triggers on a 6 to wound with them? 2 damage. they also each get 3 shots which is not as much a FRFSRF but it's decent and better than a lasgun.

They're almost our best unit damage and survivability wise atm. That's pretty interesting

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
They're almost our best unit damage and survivability wise atm. That's pretty interesting

wait survivability. i hadn't actually run those numbers yet. care to elaborate?

gendoikari87 wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
They're almost our best unit damage and survivability wise atm. That's pretty interesting

wait survivability. i hadn't actually run those numbers yet. care to elaborate?

Eh, it's like about average :p (aka, I remembered it being better for some reason)
But damage wise it's great. Whatever :p
I have the mathammer link in my sig. I keep updating it. Made durability and damage easily viewable.

Hm, you think a list of 200 or so Blandguard with supporting elements just walking down the field and eating everything would work? My worry is being hamstrung by leadership and Heavy Bolters.

 Verviedi wrote:
Hm, you think a list of 200 or so Blandguard with supporting elements just walking down the field and eating everything would work? My worry is being hamstrung by leadership and Heavy Bolters.

honestly i think unless you run units of 20+ worring about leadership is overrated. 200 blandguard walking advancing and firing would be a threat. for one that's a lot of bodies to get through even with battleshock.

gendoikari87 wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
Hm, you think a list of 200 or so Blandguard with supporting elements just walking down the field and eating everything would work? My worry is being hamstrung by leadership and Heavy Bolters.

honestly i think unless you run units of 20+ worring about leadership is overrated. 200 blandguard walking advancing and firing would be a threat. for one that's a lot of bodies to get through even with battleshock.

Aye, especially if you're making use of the BSDT, assuming you can keep the carrying vehicles alive.

I take it the Protector Imperative wasn't taken into account when mathing the Vanguard?

Nope. Flat vanilla vanguard = very good damage per point against any non 2+ target. 3+ is OK. 4+ and worse is the beeznees.