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I have been thinking of a Drop Pod Army for a while now. What does the most competitve lists look like?

I'm pretty sure it's still two librarians, five terminator squads (2 command, 3 elite), all with Assault cannons and tank hunters,and two min sized melta units. A couple of the termie squads will need to teleport rather than pod (points are tight), or you can drop a termie squad for a dreadnought w/ heavy flamer.

I thought it was a power armored SM force using apothecaries and two assault weapons (plasma) in each squad....

I have that one, the apothicary army, and it isnt to bad. But you cant spread them out or the apothicaries lose some of their value.
The termies work better because you really need the long range of their assult cannons. Melta guns just dont cut it against mobile armies.

Well, I know that Mauleed plays a Terminator/Dread heavy army.

I think it is my BA list. Hopefully I can prove this claim at the Adepticon gladiator event.

- Greenie

Greenie-

What does your list look like?

-ender502

Space Wolves are tailor made for an effective drop pod force.

My list is posted elsewhere under a thread created by muwhe for the Army Lists forum.

Space Wolves are great because of close combat capability coupled with short range firepower but their main weakness is that once they land they are relatively slow. Wolf Scouts and Blood Claw bikers can only do so much. BA are the only army with access to jump pack command. Careful deployment of your best units can force the SW player to take great risk when placing drop pods on table.

- Greenie

The Terminator/Dread build is the strongest layout. 

  The Tactical Marine version has multiple problems that the Terminator builds don't have to worry about.  First, you have to purchase several extra pods. (both in cash and in points) This means you immediately give your opponent close to 100 vps before the game even begins, while leaving you with 200 points less to play with. (oh, and you have to make those points back with bolters) Terminators don't have to take a drop pod, (but often do for the disembark move and terrain) and the fewer number of squads mean you give away fewer free points on them. 

  The second problem is you have to specialize your squads.  If you get 2 squads on turn 2 against tau, one with 2 melta guns and one with 2 flamers, What do you do?  You probably only have a few squads with melta guns, so if you try and keep it safe for later you miss your best chance to down that hammerhead. (hell, you won't even get in range again) But If you decide to engage, you can't come even close to guaranteeing you will kill it, so the squad might die for nothing. (also probable with only 2 shots against a skimmer) Conversely, if you do kill all his tanks, what are you going to do about his infantry? (its actually fairly standard to specialize your squads to a role, but with pods, the close proximities coupled with the lack of versatility becomes a BIG problem, particularly with assault) Terminators don't have to worry about things like this because of how overpow-versitle the Assault Cannon is.  Taking the above situation, and modifying it to say 2 terminator squads makes things much easier.  Since 4 assault cannons are dangerous to both targets, you can pick whichever one is more vulnerable.  Additionally, the extra 12" means the weapon is still a threat post dropping. (unlike the tactical marine assault weapons)  And terminators are a legitimate enough threat in CC to keep opponents from trying it without a lot of power weapons. (remember those invulnerable saves)

---

Changes Happening to Pod Lists: (this assumes knoledge of how pods already work)

Librarian: Most newer pod lists are cutting back to just 1.  This is because the metagame has begun adapting to Fear/Fury, and any lists that can't run ld 10/fearless are probably mechanized. (which makes your librarians look like extremely expensive veteran sgt.) That being said, any list not prepared for Fear is asking to lose the game on turn 2. 

If your willing to play true codex marines, (no traits) then Tigerious becomes a very powerful option. (this is how mauleed played his pod list) Doubling the range of Fear is nothing to sneaze at, as you effectively cover a 4 foot area (basically your opponents whole army) in Ld tests.  (it also gives you alot more freedom on what your other power will be) This does, however, limit the number of dreads, and tactical marine assault weapons you can take. 

Fewer Pods: Since Terminators can already Deep Strike, many players have opted to not bother giving them Pods at all.  As a person who still sees Plasma Cannons, (although I think I am the only one) I think this is a questionable move.  The disembark/cover that Pods give is pretty useful imo, but its still certainly up in debate.  Indeed, if you think your list has enough pods to provide the Terminators cover than they may well be superfuous. 

going with non terminator lists (as our termies are weak now)

dark angel battle company tac squads, assault squads and vet squads especially  now all look promising in pods when combined with the combat squad rules and unit options.

 

and having a libby HQ isn't to bad with hellfire if  you manage to get close enough and roll well on its random S/AP .

Posted By mughi3 on 03/17/2007 2:01 AM

dark angel battle company tac squads, assault squads and vet squads especially  now all look promising in pods when combined with the combat squad rules and unit options.

 

You can't use the combat squad rule with drop pods.

I've never seen it done, but I bet Space Wolves Pods would be mean 'n nasty.

Similarly, I bet Take The Fight To Them / Cleanse and Purify Trait Marines would make a pretty nice Pod List.  With BP/CCW on the tactical Marines and two special weapons per squad, they could do a number on most anything they can concentrate on.  Extra shooty power, if needed, could come from Drop Dreads or Termies, and Drop Assault Marines could provide mobility.

-Adso

Best drop pod list is the one where they all drop when you want them to drop.


sometimes I think they key to a drop pod army is them not dropping peicemeal.

Is doubling the area of effect of fear by using Tigerius kosher? I thought that was never resolved.

I think the strict RAW suggests that Tiggy only doubles range, not Area of Effect. However, only two powers have range: Smite and Vortex of Doom. Oddly enough, the broken effect almost seems to be what GW intended this time.

So do most people feel comfortable to take Tigerius and use his hood to double the area of effect for fear in a GT environment?

I'd get it clarified as to what the judges/organizers think before running it. If they gave it the OK, I'd go with it.

Of course, I've been burned by that kind of thing before, so beware flip-flopping judges.

You could not pay me to try to win tournaments with a drop pod army without heavy flamers/flamers.

Terrain can and does own terminator armies. Assault cannons do not kill enough Orks/Eldar/Dark Eldar/Nids/etc per turn to hang and time is up once you try to have a shooting match with an army that outnumbers you 4-1 and is just as resilient as you are and nearly as shootie.

Having played it a lot and seen a lot of other pod armies get owned, I'm still pretty sure my model is the best.

traits: bp/ccw, cleanse and purify
Libby terminator squad
2 x dreads with flamers/drop pods/ea
3 x 8 man dual flamer squads with fist
2 x 8 dual melta squads with fist
1 x 5 dual melta squad

You get a few assault cannons for range, a sacrificial melta squad for some tanks, flamers to deal with hordes, fists to deal with assault. And 50 warm bodies.

I have been doin SW Pods with pretty good success. Main things I learned:

- People struggle to kill 60 Marines in 4 rounds (going second)
- Shooting when dropping in is vital (SW were not so good here)


Id say 10 men units with fist and double Melta/Plasma trait should do best. Accompanied by a Librarian with Termys. Plus two Tornados that hide behind terrain early game. So its pretty similar to the above.

I haven't been playing much, but when I have, it's been some variation of:

Librarian with terminator command squad

3 terminator squads

2 5 man tac squads with plasma or melta (just one)

2 venerable dreads.

I've only lost two tournament games with it, and in neither case did I find any error in play on my part (but that's rather subjective). The army can deal with just about anything if I don't make any mistakes and I roll an average amount if 6's.

If I make any mistake I'm done. I actually lose a ton of pickup games with this list, but I'm much more inclined to take risks in pickup games.

 

Are the venerable dreads really worth it over standard dreads? Are you taking tank hunters with the venerables?

Just venerable, and I would not take them if I couldn't make them venerable.

Tank hunter is a much better deal on the terminators.

I assume they have extra armor and a heavy flamer?

Thank you for your input Mauleed. That is the list I am leaning towards (I love Terminators and Dreads).

How do the Tactical Sqauds work for you. Are they just throw away units, or do you get some value out of them.

Posted By mauleed on 03/27/2007 4:39 AM

I haven't been playing much, but when I have, it's been some variation of:

Librarian with terminator command squad

3 terminator squads

2 5 man tac squads with plasma or melta (just one)

2 venerable dreads.

I've only lost two tournament games with it, and in neither case did I find any error in play on my part (but that's rather subjective). The army can deal with just about anything if I don't make any mistakes and I roll an average amount if 6's.

If I make any mistake I'm done. I actually lose a ton of pickup games with this list, but I'm much more inclined to take risks in pickup games.

 

Thank you for sharing your list.  I wonder how many, if any, of your terminator squads use drop pods. 

Thanks,

Watcher

Posted By BrotherAdso on 03/20/2007 2:50 PM
I've never seen it done, but I bet Space Wolves Pods would be mean 'n nasty.

Just got my wolves in pods on the table this past week.  Worked better than I was expecting (although, I was taking wolves because I wanted a list more weaker and more limited than vanilla marines).

The crux of the matter is you're forced to pay more for extra assault ability on your troops, and your terminators are more expensive but more survivable (due to the Runic Charm, although I think point per point vanilla termies are still superior; a generic terminator is 40 points for vanilla SM and 53 points for SW with a rerolled armor save), and in exchange for this you get access to the special rules Old and Wise and Operate Behind Enemy Lines, the sum of which might even be close to worth the price of admission.  You also get cheap power fists in your squads.

In raw effectiveness, cheap vanilla terminators are going to win out (in my opinion, at least).  Wolves are going to be at least reasonably competitive with other vanilla SM builds, though -- the less terminators the vanilla list has (even with Trust Your Battle Brothers), the better the SW list looks in comparison.

So are the wolves better off with bolters or pistols?

Posted By Mr. X on 03/29/2007 4:23 PM
So are the wolves better off with bolters or pistols?

I'm not sure yet.  I started with 3 bolter-equipped GH squads and a BC squad, with the expectation of using the BC squad as counter-charge, but experience on the table is pushing me towards 2:2.  At the least, there's reason to have both represented.

I tend to prefer the fist and bp/ccw swarm to the terminator drop due to it being more forgiving of mistakes and standing up better vs. plasma-heavy armies.

Far be it from me to say it's not viable, though. It's a good list.

I really hate not having flamers, though. Too much 4+ cover and too many Tau/Ork/Nid/Eldar players in my area.