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Posted By Voodoo Boyz on 07/03/2007 5:50 AM

Yeah, pretty much the people bringing pro-painted armies really only care about winning "overall" because the part of the hobby they enjoy the most is playing the game.   And yes, most people going to the GT only care about winning overall, because it's called the Grand Tournament and isn't the Golden Demon Painting Competition.

Actually they want best painted aswell.  And also if the part of the hobby that appeals to them the most is playing then  they  shoul;d not bother with awards but play for the sake of playing.  But the truth is the part of the hobby they that really appeals to them is WINNING.  By any meens possible.  No matter how hollow that victory.

"Did you have regular painting sessions where everyone involved was only able to use units they painted at those sessions? Failing that, I can't see how this can be achieved. It also seems impractical since under this type of scrutiny. Wouldn't it either take too long to get units ready to game, or the quality of the painting suffer? "

The tournaments I mention never have more than 20 people. I knew everyone well that attended. I know all their armies and could see the progress they made over time during friendly games and league play. As with any group there were some fantastic painters who I spent time with painting. Obviously this level of detailed attention is not possible at a GT. Maybe make the winners submit to a Vulcan mind meld? Just kidding there. If you know som.eone well and what they can do with a brush it is easy to spot something unusual for them.

- G

I have taken the time to paint well, and given enough time can produce a competition worthy piece. This does not change the fact that I absolutely abhor painting. I've read many articles stating that painting is a fun and relaxing aspect of the hobby, and I'm sure for those who enjoy painting it is. I don't enjoy painting.

I am a gamer. My hobby is pushing little metal and plastic dudes around the table( I like those dudes to look good, so I commission most of my stuff out). I have never liked the idea of having a score for painting. Their should simple be a requirement that your armies be painted and a set amount of points awarded or docked for painting.

Tin boy deluxe attitude there.

- G

Please clarify your statement. Some play to game, some to paint. Some think you're all full of it unless your army is fully converted.

The counterargument can also be made. You want to win painting then enter a painting competition, not a gaming tournament.

 

Only the event organizers can define what is necessary to win and I am okay with that now. If you don't want to pint then don't expect to win when it is a requirement unless you are willing to shell out some cold hard cash. On a related note and not to be inflammatory I believe some of the painting awards that were given this past weekend at a GT went to pro-painted models/armies.

- G

Posted By Green Bloater on 07/17/2007 7:12 AM
Only the event organizers can define what is necessary to win and I am okay with that now. If you don't want to pint then don't expect to win when it is a requirement unless you are willing to shell out some cold hard cash. On a related note and not to be inflammatory I believe some of the painting awards that were given this past weekend at a GT went to pro-painted models/armies.

- G

That is correct. But calling someone a tin soldier because painting is less a priority lacks cohesion as the same comment can be made about those who focus on painting.

of course, real men play an all grot army. And convert all the grots...

I like the suit of mega armor turned into a robot and kontroled by a grot.

- G

Now thats executive thinking Green Bloater

Hee!



- G

Posted By Green Bloater on 07/17/2007 7:12 AM
On a related note and not to be inflammatory I believe some of the painting awards that were given this past weekend at a GT went to pro-painted models/armies.

Got any evidence or reason to think that, or are we just throwing out random accusations now?  Oh, I got a couple, their dice were loaded, and coke and pepsi are the same thing!

Actually, I think this illustrates a very real potential problem.  We have long been accustomed to sore losers accusing the winners of using "cheesy" armies or cheating, but now we may have a new permutation of that, sore losers who didn't win the painting award accusing the winners of using pro-painted armies.

 

I wonder if the people extremely opposed to pro-painted armies are acting that way out of a philisophical distaste, or if they are simply lashing out at a potential threat to their own models winning an award someday.

Actually I did win a painting award. I am not going to drop a dime on anyone here in regards to what you want... it is just not cool and not how I roll. I was just throwing it out there as an observation.

- G

Posted By Green Bloater on 07/18/2007 7:50 AM

I was just throwing it out there as an observation.

So you admit it was a baseless accusation?

Its sounds like an observation not A baseless accusation. 2 seperate things IMO

I actually know some people who had pro painted armies and I can confirm a few that GBF knows about but I dont like to disclose names.

so there ya go.

- G

One little detail you are missing Greenie is that your so-called nameless person has never tried to pass off the painting of his army as his own and even had the Pro Painter in question be photographed with him for the Awards. Additionally, only parts of this nameless person's army is painted by a Pro Painter. Some of the Troops choices are painted by the owner of the army. Just a little observation from someone else who was there as well.

Capt K

"...even had the Pro Painter in question be photographed with him for the Awards."

I was there for the best unit photo shoot since I won 2nd place, and no he did not have the painter with him, which will be evident when the photos are released.

- G

And no one should enter a painting contest with models they did not paint themselves.

- G

painting contest-agreed. Tournaments are differenet. As long as it meets the minimum painting requirements then its ok.

The award wasn't for just Painting. It was a Player's Choice Award, which was voted by all our peers at the event. The Painter DID go went up with him for one of the Awards, but not for the other. Remember said person won in multiple catagories. You have mentioned this over several forums and it is begining to sound more like sour grapes, Greenie. Additionally, I know both the player and painter in question. The bottomline is that the owner of the army has never tried to pass off the paint jobs in his army as his. He always gives credit to the painters of his army.

Capt k

Anyone that tries to justify using a model painted by someone else to win a painting contest is pathetic. Sure it was player's choice for best model, best unit, and best tank... do you think they pick based on anything else other than appearance? Stop being an ass. I put a lot of time into my bike squad that won 2nd place and that is good enough for me.

- G

I'm not trying to justify anything. He wasn't trying to do anything in the wrong. Nor was there some sort of shadiness about his actions. Players were asked to bring their units to the table for judging. He did so. End of story. So they chose his units over yours. Get over it. Additionally, it wasn't a painting contest. Appearance has several factors included in it other than just paint. If you are so pissed about it, why don't you ask the player in question...better yet the organizers? Posturing about it on a forum full of people that weren't there isn't the answer and only makes you look like an ass.

PS: There were numerous players confused as to what was going on with those tables in the first place. I had to let some players know that the tables were for Player's Choice voting. As it is, I don't even think all mine were judged since I wasn't aware to put them up there for quite a while. I'm sure other players might have had a similiar problem.

Capt K

Posted By Green Bloater on 07/19/2007 9:44 AM
Anyone that tries to justify using a model painted by someone else to win a painting contest is pathetic. Sure it was player's choice for best model, best unit, and best tank... do you think they pick based on anything else other than appearance? Stop being an ass. I put a lot of time into my bike squad that won 2nd place and that is good enough for me.

- G

Bloat,

You've managed to call a lot of people "ass" so far, but frankly, you've been the biggest one in this disucssion.  I do applaud this thread, as you have proven to be the least competent poster I've ever seen at Dakka at debating a point.  This thread actually began as a discussion, and the only points made on your side have been made by other posters.  You've contributed nothing but anecdotally sketchy opinions and insults, while ignoring post after post after post of coherent points recommending something in contradiction of your initial post.  You've ignored these points time and again, falling back on junior high level name-calling.

It's actually embarassing to read.  I'm not one to go whine to mods, so I figured I'd just call you on your utter and completely specious b******t.  Feel free to respond, with logic and/or reason, to any of the points made by almost any of the posters on the opposite side from you.  I'd further point out that Player's Choice is NOT Best Painted, as evidenced by the fact that GT's have had them as *separate* awards for YEARS, but what's the point?  It's like arguing with a second-grader.

You inability to provide any measured defense of your position would be tolerable if you had provided any entertainment value in your non-defenses.  But your insults are painfully unfunny, and your wit completely absent from the discourse.

I await my own insult...at least I have earned it, unlike most of the others subjected to your scathing retorts.

Only at Dakka. If you feel embarrassed put a paper bag over your head when you read my posts. I hope that helps you.

And I almost forgot to mention one of the event organizers contacted me and said next year you can only enter models you paint. Pretty cool huh?

- G

Great! So your posturing has spoiled the event for the many players that attended with Pro-Painted armies...some of which may not return to the event next year because of that. I guess in your own personal crusade, you've managed to alienate some 40k players from attending. Thanks!*sarcasm*

Capt k

The painter in question sat next to me during the awrds ceremony. The player in question did come get him for the photo when his name was called.

I have a pro-painted army. There, I said it... This must be what an AA meeting is like.(lol)

I am a decent painter but nothing more. 20 years of this hobby tells me I'm not likely going to get better at the painting aspect of it - if it hasn't happened by now it's not going to. I enjoy seeing beautifull armies on the table. I don't care where they came from or who did them. They could be fresh delivered by F'n space aliens the day of the event for all I care.

No one I have played against has moaned about my army. I am completely open & honest about who painted it. I'm proud to have an army painted by this individual. If I had the ability to do this work myself  I'd certainly do it as it is far cheaper on my wallet.

A hobby can mean many different things to many different people. I know people who would never willingly play in a tournament as they don't like that sort of thing. I can't say they are any less a part of this hobby for their view....why enforce yours on them?

Lazarus.

From the Necro forums:


Hello All,

Once again, I hope you all had a great time at this year's Necro.

I know we had a thread on this very forum discussing the awards that people would be eligible for if they brought a pro-painted army. It actually turned out to be a heated, although healthy, discussion.

As the 2007 event approached, we (the Necro organizers) did not post a formal statement, nor requirement, on the website. Likewise, we did not include a statement in the campaign/scenario books, and did not ask each participant if their army was 'self painted'. This was partly due to the fact that we hadn't fully agreed to what 'pro painted' vs. 'self painted' meant. How much of the work do you need to have done personally to make it your own? The assembly? The conversions? The painting but not the assembly or conversions? The bases? The movement trays / display board? All of the above? Not as simple a question as it first sounded. Obviously there are some who purchased their army outright, and will gladly admit so when asked - that's an easy one. Likewise, there may be some who hesitate to say one way or another.

Long story short, we had not formalized this policy for 2007, and had elected to allow people to vote for whatever army they thought to be the most worthy of Player's Choice. Most people still kept their non-self painted models out of the single model and regiment competition however. As such, several awards went to individuals with armies that may not be entirely 'self painted'.

I would like to recognize Rick Sidebotham for being an honest, upstanding guy. Rick won the 40k Player's Choice award for his outstanding - Ultramarine - army. However, Rick was already at the airport returning to Charlotte when the awards were handed out. Rick immediately contacted me the next day to let me know that he did not paint all of his army himself (although he did contribute to the awesome army). Rick had not expected to win, was surprised, and in fact said that he thought there were better looking armies there (which is saying a lot!) He offered to give up his plaque if he received this award in error.

We will more clearly address this issue next year, as we do want to recognize the hard work of those attendees who have customized and painted their own armies. Bring the best looking thing you got though, as it makes for an awesome game of Warhammer! However, we will put a process in place for 2008 to limit eligibility of some awards based on the status of one's army. So, be forewarned now, if you want to be eligible for everything, start converting and painting that next army for 2008!

Jason Mitchell
Necro Master Scribe
Orlando, FL

The players with pro-painted armies who are as adamant as you describe are probably selfish enough to want to win a painting award they don't deserve. If you have a pro-painted army but don't care about winning best painted, how will this affect you?

It sucks though. Any proof required to show that someone who won best painted actually painted their army will be impractical. Maybe submit everyone to several lie detector tests, which will be fun because then you might have groups who start prepping each other for these tests as part of the tournament preparation stage.

I'm totaly cool with not being able to win a "best painted" award. What I'm not cool is the nerfing of overall points that come from painting.

 

Lazarus.