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Alright, we have finally reached the point where we all say the same in our individual words. :-)
Can a discussion turn out any better?^^
Really, the thread it a nice example of people arguing and finally forming a consense.
Sad that it can't always be like this

Nurglitch wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Technically, I think it's not possible for Nob to have S&C when the Boyz exchange for Shootas.

Similarly if a player upgrades their Nob's Choppa to a Power Klaw, then when it comes time to upgrade the entire unit to shootas the Nob lacks a necessary condition to being upgraded to having a Shoota, having a Choppa.

Here I'm going to have to point out that yes, if the Nob has a Slugga and a Choppa, and the entire unit exchanges Slugga and Choppa for a Shoota, then the Nob makes the exchange and now has a Slugga.

However, as you will notice it does not contradict the original schema showing how a Nob that has exchanged its Choppa for a Power Klaw does not have a Slugga and Choppa and thus does not exhange his Slugga and Choppa for a Shoota when the Shoota upgrade is applied.

Thanks for confirming things in long form. And I'm aware there is no contradiction - it's how you give a Nob a Shoota.

I think you were just a little incomplete earlier for not covering the base case Nob, which is why I jumped in earlier.

If you were aware that there was no contradiction, then why would you say "Technically, I think it's not possible for Nob to have S&C when the Boyz exchange for Shootas"?

Because of this exchange:

FuzzyOrb wrote:how is the Nob with S&C in a shoota-mob possible?
It seems to me that it is against your logic.

Nurglitch wrote:How does it seem against my logic?

You never answered the original question, so I answered it.

I did answer the original question, I asked how the Nob with a Slugga and a Choppa in a mob otherwise armed with Shootas was against my logic. Asking that someone specific a claim they're making is the only useful answer one can give to such questions. Sometimes a question is an answer.

Had my question been answered, or my interlocators explained themselves more fully, I might have clued in sooner that discussion had moved from discussing Nobz armed with Sluggas and Power Klaws to Sluggas and Choppas. But then I wouldn't have finally gritted my teeth and illustrated the operation of the rule.

Still, I would have appreciated someone taking the time to say: "Oh, we were talking about Sluggas and Choppas here, you got mixed up!"

got news...

few hour ago, when i was in a (german) GW store, the redshirts recieved an e-mail with an official Ork-FAQ.
It stated clearly that the PK is not possible in a shoota mob.
Same is true for S&C on a shoota-nob.

well, that was unexpected...

A Slugga and a Choppa on a Nob in a mob armed with Shootas is not permitted by the rules in the Codex. So no surprise there. A Nob with a Power Klaw is permitted by the rules in the Codex, but considering jaffes like the Kustom Force Field it's not unexpected that GW mispoke itself yet again.

http://download.games-workshop.biz/118#

Er, the link you posted leads to an FAQ of the old codex. Is this intended?

Huh. Guess I should have read it more carefully before I posted.

Anyone know what this german word is?

Energiekrallä

It's the PK, written in the typical orken (wrong ) way.

Energy Claw! The Tankbusta translation is the best: Panzaknackaz!

It's the PK, written in the typical orken (wrong ) way.

Except they have Energieklaua also in the same paragraph. Which is what made me think it was something else.

Wonder why the Germans are the only ones getting the much needed FAQ.

GW Germany is more methodical and precise?

I wish this was true.
The (latest) german faq only tried to whipe out translation errors (wich it did not, in fact ).
But then they wrote that PK-entry and even more questions came up .
As i said, the link above refers to an year-old FAQ...

RAW... no

If faced with an ork army with a power claw armed shoota boyz nob would I allow it... yes

Reviving a dead thread here..Just noticed something that might shed a little light on this discussion.

In the codex, on page 82, there is an Ork Horde army list. "unit 7" shows the Nob armed with a Choppa and Slugga, while all the boys have shootas.

I suppose it isn't anything really concrete, but while the rest of the models were put together meticulously to represent their equipment, it seems mildly unlikely that, IF the rule was intended to prevent the PK nob, that they would overlook it in this instance.

The real point is little more clear: If you take the upgrades in order, The boyz trade choppas and sluggas for shootas, and then they upgrade to a Nob, the Nob would have basic equipment (listed in the Codex as a Choppa and Slugga) allowing the powerclaw.

RAW: no.
RAI: I dont know.
Personally yes.

Naturally I think a nob should be allowed to take a power klaw even if joined into a shoota mob, the big problem is RAW.

I hope GW will release an ork codex FAQ soon (have they already?).

According to warseer ( http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131436 ) there's a new german ork FAQ out that says:

"on p. 100, change the text as following:
The boss may exchange all of his weapons for Slugga and big choppa for x points or Slugga and PK for y points"

I know this doesn't mean much for the naysayers, but it could be an indication of the direction of any future GW FAQ.

82% to 18% with 136 votes smells like consensus to me.

The GT rulings say you cant take pk to your ork nob.

Well, the GT rulings haven't always been the most accurate or well-thought-out things; at times, they've essentially been a couple employees' bias on the rules.

Wait for the FAQ, or come to some consensus with your regular gaming group.

Kallbrand wrote:The GT rulings say you cant take pk to your ork nob.

I'll take official errata over a poorly done FAQ that's specific to a tournament any day. Then again, considering the overall quality (or lack thereof) of the GT FAQ, I'm quite convinced that I'd get more accurate game rulings from a lobotomized platypus on crystal meth.

I asked Phil Kelly this question at adepticon. He said that you can indeed have a PK in a shootaboy unit. I'm sure you hardcore folks will still insist you can't unitl it's officially in a GW fAQ though.

I don't know German, but from the couple words I learned in this thread that does indeed say "power claw and something" for that points cost [and that's pretty standard powerfist price across most S4 models now].

And that's listed as 2008, so I'd say it's not talking about the old ork codex.

Phil Kelly told several people (including me) at Adepticon that he meant for Shoota mobs to be able to take Powerklaw Nobs and that when the FAQs roll out along with 5th edition that the Ork FAQ will in fact support this idea.

So if anyone is 'on the fence' wondering if they should go ahead and buy and assemble shootas I think you can feel fairly confident that this is a 'safe' thing to do.


Phil's comments also put a pretty large hole in the argument that the UKGT house rules are somehow influenced by the design studio.

GW is a many headed hydra.

There's a reason 2 man companies have taken away large portions of the mini market.

Oh and I swear I said this after the LVGT. Same guy and everything.

Stelek wrote:GW is a many headed hydra.

There's a reason 2 man companies have taken away large portions of the mini market.

Oh and I swear I said this after the LVGT. Same guy and everything.

I know you said it, but the more people who can confirm having heard something, the less likely others will believe its just something we're making up.

But we ARE making it up.

Same thing with the DE book.

Oops, was that my out loud voice?

Naughty, cynical Stelek.

Stop typing what others are thinking.......