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Eight Ball wrote:I don't think there is much way of getting the point across to people (like Sourclams, no offense) about this issue...

Seems like there's a lot of that going around. Still yet to see anyone who thinks the Deffrolla doesn't work answer any of the questions that undermine their position.... like 'how do I declare a Ram?'.

But seriously, Sourclams, you had said before to explain why the dogs and poodles example doesn't work, HERE'S WHY: If dogs are tank shock and poodles are ramming, what are dogs? You can't say "I have a dog" a dog is a huge species of many different kinds, so it's a BIT more correct to say "Collies are Tank Shock, and Border Collies are Ramming", because that is a (very similar) class to the main one. BETTER than the damn poodle thing!!
Using my (collies to border collies) example, if the rule says a (collie) tank shock, that doesn't mean you can use (border collie) ramming, because while they are similar, they are NOT the same..

You are so confused by the flaws in your argument you can't take a trick, poor fella. Do you realise you are making Sourclams' argument for him in this paragraph? If you try and get your dog into a club, you'll be able to get your border collie into the collie-fanciers' association. AKA things that affect tank shocking (all collies) also affect ramming (border collies) unless specifically otherwise stated.

Centurian99 wrote:Then you're going to love it when version 2.1 comes out...by Wednesday...

I hope this entry doesn't change as it was a good call in the version 2.0 INAT FAQ.

Oh? It changes things?

Why bother to answer the bulls*** about poodles when you could just look at the rulebook?

The Ork Codex makes explicit mention of "Any Tank Shock." Notice the use of a proper noun.

Going to the rulebook, we find exactly one matching section for Tank Shock and a section after that called Ramming.

English language agrees with me. John Spencer agrees with me. BRB agrees with me.

Boss Ardnutz wrote:

Eight Ball wrote:I don't think there is much way of getting the point across to people (like Sourclams, no offense) about this issue...

Seems like there's a lot of that going around. Still yet to see anyone who thinks the Deffrolla doesn't work answer any of the questions that undermine their position.... like 'how do I declare a Ram?'.

Drunkspleen wrote:If I understand correctly you are claiming that the only way to execute a ram is to declare a Tank Shock with the parameter of full speed, but that's flawed because when you declare a tank shock you follow the tank shock rules down to the fact that when you come within 1" of an enemy vehicle you stop. While there's no allowance made for declaring a ram you have to naturally assume it can be done because frankly, the alternative is far too confusing.

Ok folks, I'm going to lock this thread, not because my opinion is the most right (it ain't) but rather because we have several threads arguing the same thing over and over again and there is absolutely no new information being brought up just never-ending circular arguments.

The fact is, GW needs to answer this question in an official FAQ for everyone to agree on how it should be played no matter how you look at it.


As for the INAT FAQ (for those who care), in the 2.1 version that will be coming out tomorrow we have reversed our previous ruling and gone with the stance that Deff Rollas cannot be used with Rams (and also therefore that Reinforced Rams do not allow Trukks to Ram either).

I personally believe that the rules support the position Sourclams has been arguing:

Ramming is a type of Tank Shocking, similar to how a Morale Check is a type of Leadership Test. The Deff Rolla says it works with any Tank Shock and therefore it should function with a Ram. This would be the same concept as if there was a special rule that did D6 S10 hits to a unit when it took a Ld test. If a unit then had to take a Morale check would this not still be a Ld test? Of course it would and as such the rule would apply.


However, having said that, there are other factors to consider some of which being the fact that both the UKGT house rules this year (which I've gotten the chance to read a preview version of) and John Spencer are both ruling that Deff Rollas do not work with Ramming. With an issue that so divided and one that can have a pretty big impact on games we felt it behooved us to have our FAQ ruling the same way as these other two sources, especially since the argument either way really comes down to semantics.


So for those of you looking to play strictly by the RAW you just have to know that this is an issue you'll have to discuss with your opponent before the game, and for those playing in the UKGT or a tournament using the INAT FAQ this year, you will not be able to use Deff Rollas when ramming.

Beyond that, we'll all just have to wait until GW decides this issue worthy enough to include in their official FAQs.