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Gwar! wrote:LMAYONAISE! You clearly have not read any part of this thread. Seal Hunting is NOT for population control at all! It's so they can sell the meat and furs.

Oh no, I've read the thread. Seal hunting amongst indigenous people has a great deal to do with meat and fur. However, seal hunting of the kind which actually degrades the population via kill quotas, the kind which this thread has been discussing, has nothing at all to do with sales or profit.

dogma wrote:However, seal hunting of the kind which actually degrades the population via kill quotas, the kind which this thread has been discussing, has nothing at all to do with sales or profit.

Ratbarf wrote:The European Union has banned all seal products from being imported into the EU on the basis that hunting seals is of itself, inhumane.

I think it does have something to do with sales and profit.

Sadly, the existence of sanctions does not indicate that profit is the driving force behind the hunt. Japan still hunts whales even though Greenpeace actions long ago made it unprofitable. Try again.

dogma wrote:Sadly, the existence of sanctions does not indicate that profit is the driving force behind the hunt. Japan still hunts whales even though Greenpeace actions long ago made it unprofitable. Try again.

You know, your User name is a perfect fit. Whale hunting is VERY profitable, because of Greenpeace making the supply so hard to deliver.

Gwar! wrote:You know, your User name is a perfect fit. Whale hunting is VERY profitable, because of Greenpeace making the supply so hard to deliver.

The progressive decrease in the whaling fleets of participating nations speaks otherwise.

dogma wrote:Sadly, the existence of sanctions does not indicate that profit is the driving force behind the hunt.

Okay then, what is?

(Let me guess: hunting seals is their religion.)

Japan still hunts whales even though Greenpeace actions long ago made it unprofitable.

Nice oversimplification you got there.

Japan is no longer allowed to hunt whales commercially. Their hunts are (officially) for scientific research, with the hopes of getting their foot in the door so they can resume whaling commercially.

Try again.

dogma wrote:

Gwar! wrote:You know, your User name is a perfect fit. Whale hunting is VERY profitable, because of Greenpeace making the supply so hard to deliver.

The progressive decrease in the whaling fleets of participating nations speaks otherwise.

Just because the fleet decreases it doesn't mean it is not profitable. it just means the eco-warriorsTerrorists are having an effect.

Orkeosaurus wrote:Okay then, what is?

(Let me guess: hunting seals is their religion.)

Aren't you cute. No, it isn't their religion. Though I've heard of several tribes that treat hunting as a religious experience, so the conception is not invalid, just not necessarily appropriate to this conversation. There are many factors that go into the seal hunt. Direct subsistence is the most obvious one, as the majority of seal meat is consumed by the hunters themselves. The rest of the carcass is sold to whatever broker the state has contracted to act as the quota agent. That contractor agrees in advance to purchase whatever can be collected, primarily in terms of pelts, up to a set amount. This quota is generally set by state funded conservation agencies, and has very little to do with how much the pelts will fetch on the open market. Instead, the primary motivational factor is population control.

Orkeosaurus wrote:
Nice oversimplification you got there.

Japan is no longer allowed to hunt whales commercially. Their hunts are (officially) for scientific research, with the hopes of getting their foot in the door so they can resume whaling commercially.

Try again.

I don't need to, you didn't refute anything I said. Japan hunts whales. They do so despite the fact that there is little profit in the endeavor. So little that they have had to progressively cut back on the size of their whaling fleet despite the presence of a great deal of demand in the Japanese market. They want to whale commercially, but will not be permitted to do so at their current quota level. So they'll cut quota, cut the fleet, and see a reduction in profit as a result of a general price hike.

Gwar! wrote:]Just because the fleet decreases it doesn't mean it is not profitable. it just means the eco-warriorsTerrorists are having an effect.

The effect of reducing the overall profitability of whaling.

The key thing is, the EU has judged that the manner of killing the seals is inhumane.

Actually, they stated that any killing of seals is inhumane. Regardless of the method.

Instead, the primary motivational factor is population control.

The main purpose for the hunt is so that some Newfoundlanders can do something they have been doing for hundreds of years and make a profit in the process. This years quota is 225 000 seals out of a population of 5.9 million. Thats roughly 5% of the total seal population. That is by no means a hunt purely for conservational purposes. In fact, the government has said that if the hunting won't be done for commercial reasons they may have to cull the population to keep it from exploding. So while the hunt does indeed help to control the population it is not it's main purpose. Im pretty sure that the Newfoundlanders woke up one moring and thought, "We have to keep the seal population down!" instead of, "We can eat these tasty tasty animals and then sell the pelts to Europeans and Chinese people on the side! Bonus!"

dogma wrote:There are many factors that go into the seal hunt. Direct subsistence is the most obvious one, as the majority of seal meat is consumed by the hunters themselves.

With you so far. However, remember that food costs money. If they save money by eating the food the hunt, they are indeed motivated profit.

It's merely a difference of money saved instead of money received.

The rest of the carcass is sold to whatever broker the state has contracted to act as the quota agent. That contractor agrees in advance to purchase whatever can be collected, primarily in terms of pelts, up to a set amount. This quota is generally set by state funded conservation agencies, and has very little to do with how much the pelts will fetch on the open market.

The quota doesn't matter.

The 2009 harvest is expected to be significantly under the quota, due to the low potential to turn a profit on seal pelts.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2009/04/03/seal-pelt-prices.html?ref=rss

I don't need to, you didn't refute anything I said. Japan hunts whales. They do so despite the fact that there is little profit in the endeavor.

But it's not a situation similar to Canada's seal hunt. It doesn't matter. Your analogy is poor.

This argument sounds like a broken record.

That because some people keep saying the same thing over and over and over again without realising what they are saying is misinformation propagated by people who think wearing leather shoes is a crime against the earth.


Lets just throw this in here for good measure.


Bu the reason we argue on the internet is its fun to argue! That and we get to flex out intellectual muscles and hone arguments so that they can be used in real life when an argument similar to this one might come up and actually matter. Plus, we get o properly inform the misinformed masses.

Also, /b/'s down!

Orkeosaurus wrote:Also, /b/'s down!

Yeah, I am guessing that was a major factor in the recent intensity of Dakka's debates.