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This kind of thing rather grinds my gears. The European Union has banned all seal products from being imported into the EU on the basis that hunting seals is of itself, inhumane. Frankly I think this is a load of crap, and is an incredibly hypocritical thing to do. I seem to remember the HOUR (a Canadian culture/news show) talking about how Germans were concerned about how to get rid of a group of Wolves that had recently roamed in from Poland. (And I think they were supposedly going to kill them but I didn't followup on that story.) and contains France, a place were people put out Glass covered in Honey in the hope that a bear will eat it.

Seriously? What the hell. They say its inhumane but its just as humane as eating horses or bunny rabbits, or any other cute animal that people eat. Parts of Europe hunt Cats for Petes Sake! Quite a bit of the info used by Animal lobbyists like PETA is simply false. We don't even hunt baby seals anymore, which is one of their largest lies and allusions about it! Also, they say that their populaces don't want the fur in the first place. I would dissagree, seeing as they buy it from us anyways. You would think that if they didn't want it they would discontinue its purchase on their own. Secondly, the seals will have to be killed anyways. If the population gets to large the government will be forced to enact a cull or there could easily be a fish shortage. Thirdly, this kind of thing just peeves me off.....

/rant

What do you think? Its no different from hunting Dear or Turkey, and in most cases is a lot less traumatic to the animal.

Finally.

Well my friend, it's all to do with the way the poor buggers are killed.

Take my objection to the now thankfully banned 'sport' of Fox Hunting in the UK. 20-30 Toffs galavanting about the Countryside, with 4 time their number in hunting hounds, chasing a single fox. Not only a single fox, but often one which had been trapped somewhere, and exported to the hunts patch, thus leaving it with absolutely no idea where it is, then being chased across said alien countryside. Now, if it got away, the 'sport' needn't be over. After all, you can always dig it out, throw it's terrified carcass to the hounds, then 'blood' your over privileged, under educated toff kids with it's remains whilst drinking Brandy.

Bunch of onanists!

Foxes do need their number controlling, as we committed the faux pas of bumping off their competitors and predator (Wolves and Bears) allowing them to thrive, then wind up the easiest prey in the world (chickens) all neatly bunched up in a mahoosive geet shed. Bit like a Fox McDonalds if you will. But why not shoot them? And seeing as trapping does work, why not Trap, THEN shoot them, instead of letting it go then hunting it down?

It's the Clubbing of Seals (no, not in the big fish, little fish, cardboard box style) that people quite understandably find distasteful. Shoot them, sure. But smacking it to death with a club....no ta.

Can't shoot them. If you shoot them they have a terrible habit of sliding off the ice flow before you can get to the carcass. Plus shooting acurately off of a moving boat in the open ocean is not exactly the easiest thing to do. Especially if you need to kill the seal with one shot and not ruin the pelt/meat in the process. And the reason they need controlling is more for the fishermans sake. If they eat all of the fish what will the fishermen do? (Especially as you already took away their other form of income...)

Clubbing a baby seal to death is inhumane. Saying the best way to kill a seal is by beating it's brains out with a stick is a joke. Saying that all the seals will eat the fish is a joke also, whales, lepord seals and bears keep thier numbers in check.
Shooting something is a lot less tramatic than clubbing it.

Ratbarf wrote:And the reason they need controlling is more for the fishermans sake. If they eat all of the fish what will the fishermen do? (Especially as you already took away their other form of income...)

Uh, sorry, but no. The only threat to wild fisheries is the fisherman themselves. The seal population is hardly exploding. It is simply disingenuous to presume that they are even remotely related to any shortfalls in the commercial fishing industries. I don't like PETA either, but if you're going to rant at least rant honestly.

What kind of fethed-up person would beat a baby seal to death? And if it's for the fur, that's even worse because think how many you'd need to make one coat.

The difference is that the animal is cute. If it were a loathsome creature, nobody would bat an eye.

It's the same reason why panda preservation exists. That animal should've been left behind in evolution's wake.

I have an issue with people killing pigs by beating them to death. The big problem is not that the seals are cute, but that they're very young animals who have every right to live. I mean, if I came into your house, beat your baby to death, and said 'at least it was quick', would you feel offended?

It has nothing to do with it actually being inhumane, and everything to do with it being a cute animal that's being killed in a way that makes for a bad photo instead of being callously destroyed in a warehouse somewhere.

I don't see how being killed with a club is worse than being killed with a bullet. Both are lethal. Both are liable to cause the same amount of suffering.

What looks sad or scary or mean doesn't enter into it. The animal dies in both scenarios.

::EDIT:: Also, Cheese, if I raised you and your family in a cage and one day decided to line you up and kill you, would you feel glad that at least you didn't get hit with a club?

Personally, i've had a piece of flipper pie -- and never ever want to have it again. however, this banning of seal product imports is indeed a load of... crock. Canada no longer, with the exception of the Inuit (who we pretty much can't do anything against... long story) hunts baby seals.
that said, the most common type of Seal that is hunted in the Canadian Arctic is the ringed seal, and its range is approximately from the arctic to the border of Maine on the east coast and south Alaska on the west. They eat Cod. Cod is more endangered than the seals that hunt them, by two levels in fact -- Least concern vs. vulnerable. Seals are therefore very significant non-human consumers of Cod, as there numbers almost definitely exceed those of Whales (due to insufficient data on Orcas, it cannot be said for certain). It cannot be ignored then, that the numbers of Cod would definitely be increased by a decrease of seals. Seals are NOT ENDANGERED. Cod ARE. there is NO REASON NOT TO HUNT SEALS. It's the equivalent of CHICKENS. the only difference is a club vs a cleaver.

I'm not a huge supporter of the hunt, but it's hardly something worth banning. if anything, ban cod fishing. oh wait, that's right -- that would frack our economy so bad in the Maritime provinces that they would go into a recession they might never come out of -- oh wait. they already are, because they (almost) already did.

sexiest_hero wrote:Saying that all the seals will eat the fish is a joke also, whales, lepord seals and bears keep thier numbers in check.

Most whales don't eat fish. Most eat krill. The most numerous whale in Canadian waters (arctic and north atlantic) are humpback (krill variety) and probably orcas, but probably not nearly as much as seals all the same.

Ratbarf wrote: If they eat all of the fish what will the fishermen do? (Especially as you already took away their other form of income...)

The seal population will have feth all impact on the fish populations, fishing on an industrial scale is what's destroying fish populations.

Clubbing seals to death in this day and age is barbaric and pointless, populations are not high to begin with, guess what, cos they can't find enough fish as a result of humans fishing on an industrial scale. Yours is the same overly defensive and ultimately hollow argument the Japanese are using to continue killing whales.

Please read up on the cod and tuna population collapses.

So what do you actually USE dead baby seals for nowadays?

I had a baby seal toy made of baby seal fur when I was little.

What an absolute fail of a thread this is. Honestly how can you defend that, what a complete muppet. Canada, grow up.

'Killing seals help fish populations' = utter bollocks.
'Theres no other way to kill a seal' = utter bollocks

And before you blast me for being some animal rights nut, I aint, I'm no vegetarian either and one half of my family used to breed greyhounds for coursing.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Ratbarf wrote: If they eat all of the fish what will the fishermen do? (Especially as you already took away their other form of income...)

The seal population will have feth all impact on the fish populations, fishing on an industrial scale is what's destroying fish populations.

Clubbing seals to death in this day and age is barbaric and pointless, populations are not high to begin with, guess what, cos they can't find enough fish as a result of humans fishing on an industrial scale. Yours is the same overly defensive and ultimately hollow argument the Japanese are using to continue killing whales.

Please read up on the cod and tuna population collapses.

Before there were fishermen, there were seals and whales and plenty of fishes.

It is industrial scale fishing, effectively strip-mining the ocean, which has led to the collapse of essential food fish stocks.

This is why we should invade Canada. We'll lose maple syrup, but all wars have casualties.

Celine Dione will be first against the wall...


and not in a way she'd enjoy...

Funnilly enough the words 'trade war' is being thrown around by a fair few media reports I've just read. This being the most hilarious example...

Frank Pinhorn, managing director of the Canadian Sealers Association, said Canada should retaliate by banning a European product. "If we're going to have a trade war, let's go tit for tat," he said.

But it's ok, they have absaloutely no chance whatsoever. The EU have voted overwhelmingly in favour which kind of means the top dogs opinion (the only one needed for this to get the go ahead) fairly predictable. The only way Canada have of combating this is legally via the world trade organisation, and considering they failed when the US banned seal products almost fourty years ago they don't stand much of a chance.

Anyhow, finally the EU do something I can get behind.

Ratbarf wrote:This kind of thing rather grinds my gears. The European Union has banned all seal products from being imported into the EU on the basis that hunting seals is of itself, inhumane. Frankly I think this is a load of crap, and is an incredibly hypocritical thing to do. I seem to remember the HOUR (a Canadian culture/news show) talking about how Germans were concerned about how to get rid of a group of Wolves that had recently roamed in from Poland. (And I think they were supposedly going to kill them but I didn't followup on that story.) and contains France, a place were people put out Glass covered in Honey in the hope that a bear will eat it.

Seriously? What the hell. They say its inhumane but its just as humane as eating horses or bunny rabbits, or any other cute animal that people eat. Parts of Europe hunt Cats for Petes Sake! Quite a bit of the info used by Animal lobbyists like PETA is simply false. We don't even hunt baby seals anymore, which is one of their largest lies and allusions about it! Also, they say that their populaces don't want the fur in the first place. I would dissagree, seeing as they buy it from us anyways. You would think that if they didn't want it they would discontinue its purchase on their own. Secondly, the seals will have to be killed anyways. If the population gets to large the government will be forced to enact a cull or there could easily be a fish shortage. Thirdly, this kind of thing just peeves me off.....

/rant

What do you think? Its no different from hunting Dear or Turkey, and in most cases is a lot less traumatic to the animal.

Finally.

Wussy. If Europe was man enough they would declare war on Canada. Assuming you didn't get your heads handed to you, it would drive Canada to look for aid from the US. In return Canada would have to of course ebcome a protectorate. Canada becomes the 51st-55th states. Then my plan for world maple syrup uber domination will be complete.
MUAHAHAH

Ming would blatently be on europes side.

Whatwhat is right.

About what? I have no idea. Just want a spot in his sig.

it's true, but ive ran out of pixels goddamit!

Wow, what a fantastic load of very opinionated people with bad arguments. This looks to me like a rage thread. So let us look at the arguments here:

The EU has banned, (or will ban?) the import of seal products. Reference
Seal hunting is humane vs. seal hunting is inhumane. A discussion and FAQ many here could benefit from reading. (Or just enjoy.)
The methods used are inhumane, evil and cruel or efficient, quick and merciful. wikipedia entry on the Hakapik

Now, let us explore the situation in more detail. All emotions aside, what background do you, the people arguing here, have regarding the hunting and killing of seals and other ocean mammals? I noticed that someone mentioned whale hunting as a similarly distasteful industry.

I shall bring up an example from my home country, The Faroe Islands. Now, the Faroese people have hunted the Long-finned Pilot Whale for several hundred years. In fact, most of the scientific knowledge about this particular whale species comes from the extensive records kept about the whales that have been hunted there. The hunt evolved from a barbaric tradition involving harpoons, spears and guns into a more humane hunt where the kill is always performed with a knife. That's right, the best way to kill this species of whale is to stab right behind the cranium, severing the animal's spine and main arteries in one quick stab and cut. This empties the whale of blood extremely quickly, and it dies within seconds. It also feels no pain after the spine has been severed. However, it looks gruesome. The whales are driven to the shore, where they strand in the shallows. Then they are pulled further up to ensure a quick kill. This means that the surrounding water becomes red, the foam on the waves pink, and the hunters a spectacular palette of shade and highlights in red. Now, a couple of years ago, the Danish Government (who still have some say in the matters of this autonomous country) decided that it was inhumane to stab the whales in the back, and from now on, they should be killed by slashing the throat of the animal. Not only is the throat less accessible, so it was more difficult to reach the main arteries, but also, the spine was no longer reached, and so it turned out to be extremely painful for the animals. The hunters complained. No one wants their prey to be tortured like that. Eventually, the Danes conceded that perhaps the hunters knew more about how to hunt the animals than some snobs in suits that had never even participated in a hunt of any kind.

Why did I tell you that story? Well, the moral is that sometimes, governments that don't know what they're talking about should shut up, and accept that the people conducting the hunts have been following and elaborating on tradition because it is the best way to do things.
This leads us to our dear Hakapik. Has it occurred to you, dear protesters, that it is easier to hit a straight mark at short range, with a well-weighted hunting tool, than to shoot at said target from a boat? And that perhaps the people who have actually been out there, doing this stuff for their entire lives, might know more about the details of the hunt than you do, seeing as your knowledge comes from biased media and startling photographs?
The animal is not even endangered.

What about when kittens are euthanized? Bashing their heads against a wall is a lot more humane than drowning them, yet people seem put off more by the blood on their hands than by the fact that drowning takes much, much longer than a quick snap.

About the baby-seal thing. Seals usually live in colonies. Are you suggesting that the hunters kill most of the colony, and leave the baby seals to die from hunger? How can you be so heartless?

Now, in conclusion, as long as people want to buy the pelts, there is no reason to ban them from doing so. This is a gross infringement of freedoms and it frankly disgusts me. Who are you to say what other people can and can't do as long as it doesn't directly hurt you? But perhaps that is a discussion best kept for other times and places.

In conclusion, perhaps it is best to study your facts in detail before throwing feces at the OP, who seems to know more about the situation than most of the posters in this thread. Also, it is considered correct, in a discussion such as this, to make use of references and links when making claims or counter claims about the situation. The seals in question are not endangered. The over-fishing of our oceans is an off-topic discussion best served if placed in a separate thread, although the claims that cod is, in fact endangered, seem to be correct. Now, please think before you speak, and look up your facts before arguing in cases such as these. By making unfounded accusations and biased statements, all you do is undermine your own credibility. People do not take you seriously if you argue badly, so begin arguing cleverly, and interesting discussions might be the result.

Now if you will kindly excuse me, I have an exam to attend in half an hour, so I must be off.

-Gerbrith

So your argument is that it is ok because it is the best way to do it? Ignoring the fact it's completely unessary. The seal hunting industry in canada is worth around 16 million a year. I knowa small chain of sandwich shops near me who turnover more than that in a year.

Stating that the over fishing of cod is what is causing their endangerment is not off topic, not when people are claiming seal hunting keeps their population up by lowering the number of seals. That's just you dodging that whole argument.

And as far as I can see the rest of your argument is just assuming nobody on here knows what they are talking about and throwing about words like exagurate, biased and opinionated. Get over yourself.

whatwhat wrote:So your argument is that it is ok because it is the best way to do it? Ignoring the fact it's completely unessary. The seal hunting industry in canada is worth around 16 million a year. I knowa small chain of sandwich shops near me who turnover more than that in a year.

Playing 40k is Also Unnecessary. making Playing Cards is also Unnecessary. Slippery Slope there buddy.

Gwar! wrote:

whatwhat wrote:So your argument is that it is ok because it is the best way to do it? Ignoring the fact it's completely unessary. The seal hunting industry in canada is worth around 16 million a year. I knowa small chain of sandwich shops near me who turnover more than that in a year.

Playing 40k is Also Unnecessary. making Playing Cards is also Unnecessary. Slippery Slope there buddy.

Playing cards and 40k arent bludgeoning a seal to death are they?

Or does a 28mm plastic abaddon the despoiler have rights?

whatwhat wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

whatwhat wrote:So your argument is that it is ok because it is the best way to do it? Ignoring the fact it's completely unessary. The seal hunting industry in canada is worth around 16 million a year. I knowa small chain of sandwich shops near me who turnover more than that in a year.

Playing 40k is Also Unnecessary. making Playing Cards is also Unnecessary. Slippery Slope there buddy.

Playing cards and 40k arent bludgeoning a seal to death are they?

Or does a 28mm plastic abaddon the despoiler have rights?

Er Khrone demands sacrifice?

touché

Well in that Case whatwhat, lets ban Cattle Farming. It is 10 times as cruel but no-one gives a toss.

Or what about Battery Hens? Or Pig Farming? Or Veal? Hell, lets ban Jelly Beans because they have Calf Gelatine (made from their Bones) in them.

The only reason the EU is banning it is because, like the Icelandic gerbrith said (btw, Iceland: Beautiful Country. Been there once for a CCP Fanfest and cannot wait to go again someday), the suits in the EU see cute seals and want to make themselves seem important, with no regard as to how it actually works.

You people need to shut up. You're ruining my plans for world maple domination. One more word and cute duckies get it!