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Anti-Mag wrote:I can't believe that the people who are making these massive releases, in a industry which makes billions, can be so far removed from the quality of their final product.

Why is this so hard to believe? You clearly understand the psychology of franchise games from your posts in this thread. It's totally believeable that Rebellion wouldn't really care about the final quality, because they knew it was going to sell before it hit the stores. They're already talking sequel.

Aliens versus Predator is a franchise game. It doesn't have to work that hard. If you go online and read comments about the game in response to negative reviews, you will see a lot of variations on this theme:

"The game wasn't great, and if it wasn't Aliens versus Predator I wouldn't play it...but I love AvP, and so I love this game."

People will turn their back to solid gameplay mechanics if they get the franchise tie-in they wanted, like you've observed. Rebellion knows this.

Anti-Mag wrote:With time, dedicated AVP players will of course maximise the potential of the seperate classes, and may gain more enjoyment when that happens, but I think their perseverence will based more on love of the franchise than a belief that the game is a quality title.

Like I said, you get it.

Demonslayer82 wrote:You know what I have a sneaking suspicion that the game started out as Colonial Marine and then it evolved into Aliens Vs Predator as the tuther faded into obscurity.....

I may be wrong but hey.....

Yes, you are wrong. Two totally different titles, two totally different developers. Colonial Marines is being developed by Gearbox, who made Borderlands. Now that they've done most of the work for Borderlands they are moving back into Colonial Marines:

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/37740/Aliens-Colonial-Marines-resurfaces

Thanks I had a suspicion that I was wrong.

There you go again carinius , ALWAYS with the "you'll only like this game because you are fan boi fan gurl "

I love AVP as the FPS it is , and it has nothing to do with the franchise.

Well w/e thats how you always call things.

Yes we get it , you have reason to dislike it ,
but you know what , there are tons of elements to why i like it , and it has nothing to do with the franchise.

In other words , everyone have different taste , and dont tell me that the only
reason its worth playing is because we like the franchise.

LunaHound wrote:In other words , everyone have different taste , and dont tell me that the only
reason its worth playing is because we like the franchise.

Even if that's the case, that's not really a bad thing.

Luna, if I hadn't just struck a nerve you wouldn't bother responding to me.

Just curious: how many First Person Shooters do you play on a regular basis? How about the five most recent preceding Aliens versus Predator?

Cairnius wrote:Luna, if I hadn't just struck a nerve you wouldn't bother responding to me.

Hmmm as the wise Neo said , "No" because its pretty awful the only way you expect another human to respond is to hit their nerves first

Cairnius wrote:Just curious: how many First Person Shooters do you play on a regular basis? How about the five most recent preceding Aliens versus Predator?

LunaHound wrote:Something that doesn't make sense + ignores question

Had you answered the question I imagine it would have been something along the lines of "I don't know," or "I don't really play shooters that much." Perhaps you understood where I was going with this and thus chose not to answer.

Anti-Mag is clearly someone who has played a lot of shooters. So have I. Pretty much every meaningful shooter ever made other than the Half-Life series, which I have done enough reading on to understand why it was so important to the genre and what made it great. Someday I'll pick up The Orange Box to experience the sequel, and I have played Portal.

"What is fun" and "what is good from a technical, comparative perspective" are entirely different things, Luna. If you haven't played many, many shooters, and understand what makes a good shooter in terms of design methodology, physics engines, and the other key ingredients, then you lack the perspective that Anti-Mag and I, among others, have.

So you may not understand the difference between "fun" and "well-constructed FPS," and that's fine - but that's what Anti-Mag and I are talking about. Aliens versus Predator may be "fun," but when you aggregate the people who actually write about video games for a living, they gave it a C- :

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/aliensvspredator

Read the reviews. The franchise appeal of this game will tie into almost every positive observation a reviewer makes. "If you like the Alien / Predator movies - you will love this game" comes out of the mouths of commenters on a regular basis across all the sites.

This isn't a fun game, it's a step back. Normally that wouldn't be bad, if the game had something going for it. This is just a poorly done fan-spank.

The only reason I got the game was Steam had it on sale, early on, and to play the Marine campaign. That's done, and I feel disappointed that I ended up fighting damned Predators and Androids for the majority of the game.

I miss my AvP 2 discs.

Cairnius wrote:

Anti-Mag wrote:I can't believe that the people who are making these massive releases, in a industry which makes billions, can be so far removed from the quality of their final product.

Why is this so hard to believe? You clearly understand the psychology of franchise games from your posts in this thread. It's totally believeable that Rebellion wouldn't really care about the final quality, because they knew it was going to sell before it hit the stores. They're already talking sequel.

Aliens versus Predator is a franchise game. It doesn't have to work that hard. If you go online and read comments about the game in response to negative reviews, you will see a lot of variations on this theme:

"The game wasn't great, and if it wasn't Aliens versus Predator I wouldn't play it...but I love AvP, and so I love this game."

People will turn their back to solid gameplay mechanics if they get the franchise tie-in they wanted, like you've observed. Rebellion knows this.

Anti-Mag wrote:With time, dedicated AVP players will of course maximise the potential of the seperate classes, and may gain more enjoyment when that happens, but I think their perseverence will based more on love of the franchise than a belief that the game is a quality title.

Like I said, you get it.

Demonslayer82 wrote:You know what I have a sneaking suspicion that the game started out as Colonial Marine and then it evolved into Aliens Vs Predator as the tuther faded into obscurity.....

I may be wrong but hey.....

Yes, you are wrong. Two totally different titles, two totally different developers. Colonial Marines is being developed by Gearbox, who made Borderlands. Now that they've done most of the work for Borderlands they are moving back into Colonial Marines:

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/37740/Aliens-Colonial-Marines-resurfaces

Eh. I looked at the game from a strange position.

1. I loved AVP 1.
2. I hated AVP 2.
3. And as you can tell I was extremely underwhelmed with the latest offering.

I see comments like ''hey heard the game kinda sucks but I love the films so I'll definitely be getting it''. When did people become sheep? If anything, ragaing fanboys of a franchise should demand more out of a game aimed at them. Shame on Rebellion for releasing an unfinished game. And no, it doesn't make sense from a business point of view. Excuse the pun, but how many people who bought this game have now become alienated with Rebellion? When the next AVP game hits the shelves you bet your pulse rifle that people who hated this game wont give it a second glance. Rebellion had the chance to make a real impact here. The timing was great; MW2 fatigue had begun to set in, it was a quieter time for games. But they totally blew it. If Rebellion had tested the game for five minutes they could have seen the faults that drip from this game. They could have gone back to the drawing board and made a truly unique title that would have put them in good stead for future releases and gained a solid fanbase to build upon. Instead they were deservedly greeted with a resounding meh by both neutrals and fans alike. Rebellion are not a major studio when compared to Infinity Ward, etc, which makes their sloppy bid for attention all the more bizarre.

For another example of how trusting to blind devotion can backfire, you only have to look at the threads on Dakka regarding the new Ultramarines film.

Many hardcore AVP fans will know of all of the great storylines which the comics covered. I am sure that they were the ones hit hardest by this weak offering. Rebellion deserve all of the citicism they get, as they have failed thousands of customers with an average title that was heavily implied to be something different.

Oh, and if you're going to release a 'special edition' of a game, make it special. A happy meal facehugger in a cardboard box does not count as 'special'!


As a last point, this weekend I will be drafting my letter to Rebellion. This thread has been a great help; both opinions for and against the game and/or my review of it have all been dignified and considered, so whatever your viewpoint, a round of applause all round for intelligence and sportsmanship

Now you're just whining. Writing to Rebellion? Is it so hard to comprehend that some people will like a game just because it's part of a major franchise? True fans can look past a game's flaws and enjoy it.

Cheese Elemental wrote:Now you're just whining. Writing to Rebellion? Is it so hard to comprehend that some people will like a game just because it's part of a major franchise? True fans can look past a game's flaws and enjoy it.

I don't believe that. I also don't believe that my past comments, which I feel are structured and justified, should be labelled as 'whining'. I don't see as how writing to Rebellion can hurt? If they make a better game as a result of customer feedback then yourselves and other slaves to a franchise will be happy. Even the biggest fans of AVP have admitted problems with this game; you think they want to be sold another limp product in a years time? I'm advocating progression.

Cheese Elemental wrote:True fans can look past a game's flaws and enjoy it.

The farmer called, he's looking for his cattle.

BrookM wrote:

Cheese Elemental wrote:True fans can look past a game's flaws and enjoy it.

The farmer called, he's looking for his cattle.

So because I like a game simply for being part of a franchise, I'm a sheep?

Real pathetic, Brook. There's more to games than mechanics or story. I like the AvP franchise simply because the idea of a human/alien/Predator free-for-all is cool. So how about you drop the pathetic personal attacks?

Anti-Mag: I may have come across as a bit harsh there, I apologise. I agree, AvP is not a well-constructed FPS, but Rebellion still succeeded in making a good game in terms of fanservice. It's just more of a niche game than anything else.

I support Anti-Mags idea to write feedback directly to the developer. I did this myself a few times and I prefer to do it per mail than to dive into the swamps that are the offical Forums.

On topic of licence games: I'm currently playing the last Spider-Man game and I enjoy it. The camera's dumb, the controls are a mess, but I still enjoy it, because I haven't played a Spider-Man game in years. It's shame they never re-used the almost perfect swining controls from Spider-Man 2, but it's still a nice game. For fans.

Cheese Elemental wrote:There's more to games than mechanics or story. I like the AvP franchise simply because the idea of a human/alien/Predator free-for-all is cool.

Well, yes. There's mechanics, story, graphics, and sound design if we wanted to make a more complete, yet basic, list.

But you're not talking about games. You're talking about the Aliens versus Predator franchise. Franchise is concept. It's "idea." You like the idea of humans and Aliens and Predators running around killing each other, and the idea is enough for you on its own. Therefore, even a poorly-realized version of that idea is also good enough for you because, psychologically, you're satisfied with the idea without any physical realization of it in the form of a video game.

The game is just gravy for you. For those of us who are more concerned with the game, it's not enough. We actually want a good game in terms of mechanics, story, graphics, and sound design.

This is pretty much the mentality that most franchise offerings depend on, and is responsible for why most franchise offerings suck. The developers of the franchise offerings know that this is precisely how franchise fans think, and so they don't have to push themselves very hard.

I don't know if anyone was paying attention to the Game Developers Conference this past week, but Sid Meier gave a great speech about player psychology which was fascinating, if not merely a statement of truths. I would love to hear a developer discuss franchise player psychology at some point.

ON EDIT:

Check it out, a new Predator movie...from Robert Rodriguez??

http://kotaku.com/5493412/a-look-at-predators?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+kotaku%2Ffull+(Kotaku)&utm_content=Google+Reader

Hey, Walton Goggins is in it! He's one of my favorite actors. Has real talent. Of course, I don't expect it to be utilized here. lol

Cheese Elemental wrote:

BrookM wrote:

Cheese Elemental wrote:True fans can look past a game's flaws and enjoy it.

The farmer called, he's looking for his cattle.

So because I like a game simply for being part of a franchise, I'm a sheep?

Real pathetic, Brook. There's more to games than mechanics or story. I like the AvP franchise simply because the idea of a human/alien/Predator free-for-all is cool. So how about you drop the pathetic personal attacks?

Anti-Mag: I may have come across as a bit harsh there, I apologise. I agree, AvP is not a well-constructed FPS, but Rebellion still succeeded in making a good game in terms of fanservice. It's just more of a niche game than anything else.

Except while they may have done a good fanservice and a niche...they promised sheer gold. They promised that it would "revolutionize online gaming".

It failed to deliver on all counts except for the campaign.

I guess I'm not a true fan of the franchise then if I can't stand flawed shovelware gak.

Is it warm in here or is that just your discussion getting heated?

My bad, I'm just annoyed that I was stupid enough to buy it now, instead of downloading it or waiting until it hit the bin. I'll go sit in a corner now.