Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So basically you're saying the Emperor has become Malal?

I prefer "Star Child."

But there I go, calling 1hadhq a heretic.

At this point, clearly the Emperor is a God.

How many untold billions worship him as such?

I'm a bit confused on how he's not able to 'fully manifest' as such, but I'm sure the Golden Throne has something to do with that.

The Inquisition game background implies that the Golden Throne is a prison tethering the Emperor's soul to his former body so that he cannot be reborn. Others claim that he will not be reborn once he dies (i.e., throne is unplugged) but rather that his soul will finally enter the Warp and destroy the Ruinous Powers. In the Realm of Chaos books and the Inquisition War trilogy, (at least part of) the Emperor's soul is said to be already drifting out in the Warp. It is called the Star Child and in this theory, the Emepror's mind--manifested in the Astronomicon--is distinct from his soul. A group called the Illuminati want to sacrifice the Emperor's biolgical sons (the Sensei) en masse in order to reincarnate the Emperor.

Bear in mind of course if the Emperor dies or is removed from the Golden throne then there is next to nothing to prevent a vast daemonic horde from pouring through the breach and overrunning earth in short order, and all but the shortest of warp jumps will become impossible as there will be no Astronomican to navigate by.

Sure, I'm not saying the Inquisition are the bad guys.

::waves at cameras::

I'd never say that.

Melissia wrote:So basically you're saying the Emperor has become Malal?

No. I'm the fifth. just look at my pic. All I know is there's something about Tzeetch welcoming one of his children home...just saying.

Frazzled wrote:

Melissia wrote:If dropping a few barrages of orbital bombardment ontop of a bloodthirster, two soulgrinders, and a swarm of juggernaughts isn't right, then your morals are screwed!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

1hadhq wrote:Who cares for a body when his spirit is still with us.

Amusingly enough, it's actually the Daemons codex which provides the most current evidence that yes, the Emperor is still active.

Of course the demon codex has the most current information that the Emperor is active in the warp. He's one of us.

So he's a MOD?

Manchu wrote:I prefer "Star Child."

But there I go, calling 1hadhq a heretic.

I am a heretic ?
Says a follower of conrad curze with a DE avatar

Maybe I am missing the joke in your post, but how should I be what you claim?
Did I ever say "god-emperor" in a sense of GOD ....emperor ? Thougth you know me better

Can I find this 'starchild theory in any 3rd to 5th ed background? NO?
There you go.

reds8n wrote: Bear in mind of course if the Emperor dies or is removed from the Golden throne then there is next to nothing to prevent a vast daemonic horde from pouring through the breach and overrunning earth in short order, and all but the shortest of warp jumps will become impossible as there will be no Astronomican to navigate by.

Thats what we want you to think.

That whole "daemonic horde waiting to destroy Earth but for the Throne" thing is one of the weaker aspects of the new background.

The Golden Throne 'project' was to gain access to the Eldar Webway... and now, there are a bunch of Daemons running around, in the Webway?

Either way, it unnecessarily raises the 'grimdark' to ridiculous levels.

At least throw us a bit of a bone here!

Times are tough, humanity is on the edge!

OK, the Emperor dies and there goes the Astronomicon!

Maybe he's reborn, maybe he becomes a 'proper' God, whatever.

But now, on top of everything else, Daemons gobble up Terra?

Please.

Alpharius wrote:That whole "daemonic horde waiting to destroy Earth but for the Throne" thing is one of the weaker aspects of the new background.

The Golden Throne 'project' was to gain access to the Eldar Webway... and now, there are a bunch of Daemons running around, in the Webway?

Either way, it unnecessarily raises the 'grimdark' to ridiculous levels.

At least throw us a bit of a bone here!

Times are tough, humanity is on the edge!

OK, the Emperor dies and there goes the Astronomicon!

Maybe he's reborn, maybe he becomes a 'proper' God, whatever.

But now, on top of everything else, Daemons gobble up Terra?

Please.

If they are in the webway, wouldn't the Eldar have had a slight problem? As that hasn't occurred can we say ixnay on that theoreay? Maybe a doorway opened but its been taken care of by the professionals.

When you absolutely, positively have to get that doorway to another dimension closed overnight, you call...Harlequins.

Besides doorway this, doorway that, its nothing a few sheet of plywood and a nice spackle touchup can't take care of. In the year 30K Mankind has forgotten...basic carpentry...

Well, that's what I was getting at.

So, there's a rip in the Webway, or near it, but only threatening Earth, even though certain Daemons would love to get at Eldar anyway possible, etc., etc.

I think Malcador sacrificed himself to fix that problem, right, after Magnus's psychic e-mail re: the HH gummed up the Emeperor's Webway portal? So, no worries. But unplugging the Golden Throne would definitely make Warp travel all but impossible . . . assuming the Emperor actually "died" (whatever that might mean) when disconnected from the Throne.

@1hadhq: So, the Emperor's spirit still being with us is . . . an empty platiutude?

Manchu wrote:I think Malcador sacrificed himself to fix that problem, right, after Magnus's psychic e-mail re: the HH gummed up the Emeperor's Webway portal? So, no worries. But unplugging the Golden Throne would definitely make Warp travel all but impossible . . . assuming the Emperor actually "died" (whatever that might mean) when disconnected from the Throne.

@1hadhq: So, the Emperor's spirit still being with us is . . . an empty platiutude?

There was space travel before the pschic choir and no direct link between it and the emperor actually (maybe I am incorrect on the secnd part) . You don't need the emperor to burn out pscher minds in a blaze.

Warp travel will still be possible, it will just be much more dangerous and much more time consuming - shorter jumps are all that will be realistically possible, meaning longer travel time (maybe, as the Warp is capricious!)...

The Golden Throne is a lie, sure, that's one theory.

Certainly, the Emperor was not confined to his Throne during the Great Crusade and his fleets got around pretty handily. That leads me to believe that the Astronomicon is not really bound by the spacial/temporal dimensions of the materium. Because they were navigating by it even in those days, right?

Anyway, as has already been noted, there are other ways to get around--not just limited to the Webway, either. Someone brought up that the Necrons managed (still manage, actually) without either method.

reds8n wrote:
With regards to the sons thing : it's worth remembering that at one point in the background the Emperor did have various offspring, literally from his loins, that he'd left all about the galaxy. This idea seems to have been dropped in the current background, not least one suspects due to the slight flaw in this story that it wasn't really all that practical for the Emperor to have travelled around the galaxy "sharing the love" in the circumstances of the current setting.

Klawz wrote:Also, if he didn't want to be a god, why is he helping his Church?

I don't really think he's doing anything out of choice at the moment ( so to speak). If you delve into some of the Inquisition background there's factions in there ( if not the Imperium as a whole) who wouldn't even want the Emperor to return/be reborn as they would lose their position/power and they at least are doing alright.

There's an ongoing sort of sub meta plot, to do with the interdependent relationship between Gods and mortals in the 40K setting ( and to a lesser extent in the WFB setting as well) that emphasises the fact that each seems to be dependent upon the other and somewhat subject to the whims and drives of the other.

Well put. In 40K gods don't make mortals; Mortals make Gods. (just like real life)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

reds8n wrote: Bear in mind of course if the Emperor dies or is removed from the Golden throne then there is next to nothing to prevent a vast daemonic horde from pouring through the breach and overrunning earth in short order, and all but the shortest of warp jumps will become impossible as there will be no Astronomican to navigate by.

Bah! That's just propaganda.

Ok to anser this thread in all truth of why there is no religion in the 40k univers is simple back before the Emperor was created. The scientists who created him and his sons were part of a group know today as the "Church of Scientology". This was a dark time back then as Religous Wars were breaking out everywere on the planet killing millions. In North America the Church of Scientology was expelled/chassed out of the country on their beliefs on clonning. Which the Church of God in North America had called immoral. So these Church of Scientology guys and their experiments moved to the only place that was safe for them, the Enemies of North America. Modern day Iran, were at that time was a big time supporter of terror and militant activity against the Free Worlds then. So in compleate privacy and security the Church of Scientology created the Emperor and his sons to form a perfect army. North America and its allies must have found out about this clone army and the super soldiers that the Church of Scientology was making, thinking these soldiers were for the armies in the Middle East. Attacking abit to late as the Emperor escaped and the sons (Primarchs) escaped in all manner of ways being scattered and lost. But the Emperor and his army of new super soldiers fought on and won victory after victory against every country and put the religions of the world down by destroying every church he found. Thinking that Religion was the basis of every war man has ever fought, the Emperor made the dissision to wipe away all religion that man worshipped or prayed to. Making it a Heresy crime to do so in any form, Prooff is in the book written by Nick Kyme and Lindsey Priestly "Tales of Heresy" a writter named Gram McNeil penned "The Last Church" States this to be true. The last Catholic church was burned and destroyed on the Emperors command. The Priest was told his story by the disqiused Emperor and the Emperor listed to the Priest story. The priest choose to die in the fire with his beliefs in Gods, not believing in the Emperors story about how Religion was the cause of all mans problems. Its all there in black and white also buy a few old editions of White Dwarf there are related tales there to back up this story.

LordWynne wrote:Snip wall of text.

Wow. Simply wow.

So does that make Xenu a chaos god?

Alpharius wrote:Well, that's what I was getting at.

So, there's a rip in the Webway, or near it, but only threatening Earth, even though certain Daemons would love to get at Eldar anyway possible, etc., etc.

The webway IS broken there, so it made sense to have a direct attack on the nearest gate in the HH story.
Actually this access is sealed. Maybe these gates hold without the Emperor, but its easier with his presence.

Manchu wrote:I think Malcador sacrificed himself to fix that problem, right, after Magnus's psychic e-mail re: the HH gummed up the Emeperor's Webway portal? So, no worries. But unplugging the Golden Throne would definitely make Warp travel all but impossible . . . assuming the Emperor actually "died" (whatever that might mean) when disconnected from the Throne.

@1hadhq: So, the Emperor's spirit still being with us is . . . an empty platiutude?

No Codex chaos demons clearly states at page 24 that the EMPEROR PROTECTS with his will and power of his spirit.
Even the minions of chaos have to admit he protects mankind.

Alpharius wrote:Warp travel will still be possible, it will just be much more dangerous and much more time consuming - shorter jumps are all that will be realistically possible, meaning longer travel time (maybe, as the Warp is capricious!)...

Agreed. Lack of focus would hinder travel.

Manchu wrote:

Certainly, the Emperor was not confined to his Throne during the Great Crusade and his fleets got around pretty handily. That leads me to believe that the Astronomicon is not really bound by the spacial/temporal dimensions of the materium. Because they were navigating by it even in those days, right?

Anyway, as has already been noted, there are other ways to get around--not just limited to the Webway, either. Someone brought up that the Necrons managed (still manage, actually) without either method.

Agreed too.
Necrons know more about high tech without using the warp as others.

Since BA and Necrons are best friends now, maybe we can borrow some drives?


IMO, the backstory moved from crusade (roman empire) to IoM (medieval age) so they need to go to end times (30years war) next....

Just reminding folks that some parts of the webway have broken down and invaded. Those parts are sealed off.

Alpharius wrote:
But now, on top of everything else, Daemons gobble up Terra?

Would that honestly be so terrible? Ignoring the regrettable loss of human life, such a thing occurring would result in the destruction and subsequent dissolution of the Adeptus Administratum and the head of the Ecclisiarchy, most likely. If anything, it would save the reborn Emperor some time getting rid of religion, again, and rooting out bureaucratic corruption.

Commander Endova wrote:

Alpharius wrote:
But now, on top of everything else, Daemons gobble up Terra?

Would that honestly be so terrible? Ignoring the regrettable loss of human life, such a thing occurring would result in the destruction and subsequent dissolution of the Adeptus Administratum and the head of the Ecclisiarchy, most likely. If anything, it would save the reborn Emperor some time getting rid of religion, again, and rooting out bureaucratic corruption.

Good point!

So when he shows up in Ultramar (New Terra!), he'll be good to go!

Ah, but you're forgetting that the Emperor is a god who foresaw all of this happening and thus must have intended it to be so!

The Emperor did not see any of this coming. He poweres of prognostication were blocked by Chaos. All 4 of them spent a lot of time trying to take him down. Most likely because they saw his ascension coming.

Ah, but their vision was blocked by his gellar fields!

See, how this can only ever go round and round?

no, geller fields are only on warp-borne ships.....

Alpharius wrote:

Commander Endova wrote:

Alpharius wrote:
But now, on top of everything else, Daemons gobble up Terra?

Would that honestly be so terrible? Ignoring the regrettable loss of human life, such a thing occurring would result in the destruction and subsequent dissolution of the Adeptus Administratum and the head of the Ecclisiarchy, most likely. If anything, it would save the reborn Emperor some time getting rid of religion, again, and rooting out bureaucratic corruption.

Good point!

So when he shows up in Ultramar (New Terra!), he'll be good to go!

Lol maybe he should claim the body of Gulliman and get it over with. He could be Ultra-Emperor Smurf.

The head of the Ecclesiarchy isn't on Terra.

Not anymore, anyway. Sebastian Thor made sure of that after what Vandire did.

I said I would find In one of the books someone aside from a person in the Imperial cult saying what Horus was doing was Hersey and I did. In Tales of Heresy one of the silent sisters did such a thing. I found it in The Voice.