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sebster wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Maybe its just animals doing what their instinct tells them to do , but i like to think they deserve way more praise then we give them credit for.

Loyalty and pack behaviour isn't the same thing as empathy and I say this as a guy who's always had dogs in my life, and thinks they're wonderful.

Elephants and other intelligent animals have been shown to display human-level empathy. Elephants, in particular, are known for this amongst researchers; they display recognizable grief, for example, should their child be brought down, and many great apes have shown to have emotional development roughly the equivalent of humans, engaging with those people they "like" (not recognize, like; captive apes have been proven to show preferences between their handlers) and treating them differently according to preference.

ArtfcllyFlvrd wrote:

Ma55ter_fett wrote:This is why scientifically speaking bow/blackpowder hunters have on average much larger balls than those hunters armed with semi automatic rifles and shotguns.

I don't know about other state's laws but in Illinois you can't hunt with rifles and shotgun season is only one week a year. Does that say something about the men in IL

No... it says something about the animal population, versus hunter population and includes incroaching housing/industry. BTW if the hunters that I know from IL are any indicator, you need a year round deer season. These guys just cant shoot.

On an aside... the quote that was attributed to me above wasnt actually mine. I LOVE hunting with guns. And Bows. And traps. I would hunt with Claymores (not the sword.... wait.... hell, the sword too) if it was legal.

4M2A wrote:Neither is 1 person

One person has vastly more potential to affect the world at large than almost any number of animals.

Bromsy wrote:

4M2A wrote:Neither is 1 person

One person has vastly more potential to affect the world at large than almost any number of animals.

Too True. I've yet to see Hitler Chimpanzee, Karl Marx Walrus, or Babar the Eleph..... no wait... I have seen one of those.

Evil Overlord List #46: If an advisor says to me "My liege, he is but one man. What can one man possibly do?", I will reply "This," and kill the advisor.

As testing on grown human skin cells and what not is more accurate, cheaper, and more humane, in most cases animal testing is unnecessary.

But hunting is A-Okay.

ArtfcllyFlvrd wrote:I don't think it's right to abuse animals, but I have to come down close to ChrisWWII. I would let a lot of animals die before I would let a person die. People are just on a different level of importance than animals.

No we arent, we only think we are because we are a part of the human race, humans are fascinating and a natural marvel but in terms of ecological importance we are one of the most unimportant beings on this planet. Our damage to the planet outweighs our ecological niche and the planet would be far better off if we werent here. We are extremely unimportant, if all the pollinating insects in the world died tommorow the worlds plant life would be severely affected and a great deal of our oxygen production would dissapear, insects in general are vital to just about every food chain on the planet, even the humble worm serves a greater importance then our self glorifying species.

Bromsy wrote:

4M2A wrote:Neither is 1 person

One person has vastly more potential to affect the world at large than almost any number of animals.

This has been true in the past but is not true in practice, what you really mean is one person with just the right amount of intelliegence, charisma, skill, connections, motivation and luck has the potential to affect the world at large. And then there is the nature of their effect, Hitler killed millions of our own species and instigated a war which ravaged Europe, the Pacific, Africa and many other areas of the world with problematic consequences still felt today. He did affect the world though, for the better I dont think so.
In history the amount of people who genuinely affect the world are less then a percent of our population and even less had positive affects.

We cant just bogart exemplarary people from our history and hold them up as the average human, the truth is the majority of humans will serve in menial jobs with no willingness to affect the world in a positive way.

micahaphone wrote:As testing on grown human skin cells and what not is more accurate, cheaper, and more humane, in most cases animal testing is unnecessary.

I beg to differ. Whilst alternate techniques have been (and continue to be) developed, they still do not provide, in many cases, all the data that is required. A lot of tests can be done using them, but there are still those which require animal and human testing.

I would also like to point out that animal testing controls are some of the strictest controls in the world (in the UK at least) and you don't get permission to do it willy nilly.

micahaphone wrote:As testing on grown human skin cells and what not is more accurate, cheaper, and more humane, in most cases animal testing is unnecessary.

I also beg to differ:
1) Animal testing has saved thousands upon thousands of human lives over the years.
2) Human skin testing can only go so far, sometimes you need a full body to test the effects of a certain drug. Human skin cells might be perfect for cosmetic testing though.

If it aids science, it's fine.

If it's just unnecessary cruelty, it's wrong.