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Minsc wrote:I could understand a Flesh Golem as in the D&D "Animated construct of flesh", if only because of Necrarchs. If anyone else has the 6th Edition Army Book on hand, it provides a ready example (a Fairy / Forest spirit that was torn apart by a Necrarch in experiments). Fluff-wise, it can be anything from prized Ogre bodies animated for war (prized because Ogres are hard as nails, so acquiring one's body that is still useable is a bit difficult) to experiments with Warpstone to just straight-old "I wonder what would happen if I started stitching a bunch of Zombies / Ghouls together".
Bahaha.
I love the idea of Necrarchs essentially pulling a "Can it Blend?" with whatever body parts they can get.
But if I were a betting man, I'd say it would likely be similar to the Abominations we see in the Warcraft franchise.
Problem being that the only niches I can see such filling are either a pseudo-Giant-monster-thing (which Vampires already have via Vargulf, unless this is to be a Non-Vampire list variety akin to Wolf & Boar chariots), or it's a Troll analogue (which without Vomit attacks would need an interesting rule to make worthwhile). Hm, Unbreakable Undead that lacks the Unstable rule? Could see that somewhere in the list, something that's thrown in to tie things up and smash a few faces as it does so.
Oooh, or maybe it has some kind of explodey special rule?
Bombbies!
I don't exactly like the idea of Ghoul Cavalry, mostly because they skulk in graveyards and sewers and what-not. They're scavengers, typically along the fringes of society, and a mob of Ghouls on Wolves just doesn't work. Now, Wolves that can be sick'd from the unit instead (Like the old Sabretusks), those I could see.
Agreed on the Ghoul Cavalry part. It seems far, far too silly.
Like I said, if it were me I'd have some kind of Super Dire Wolf. Something the size of a daggone Rhinox or the like, which wouldn't be entirely unfounded as there's been "rumors and whispers" within the Empire of such things if that hasn't been retconned.
Just to cut down on clutter, I'm putting your big, wordy bit on the Strigoi in spoilers just to save people some screenspace. It's unchanged though.
Spoiler:
My understanding of the Strigoi was (and anyone who knows more feel free to correct me) that:
1) They started off like most all the other Vampire Bloodlines. Lord converted by what would become the Lamian bloodline's matriarch, part of ruling caste, etcetera.
2) When the Nehek' realm was sacked, they scattered like most other Vampires. However, unlike the other factions which either dissolved into personal projects (Blood Dragon combat-hunting, Necrarch studies) or their own projects of power / infiltration (Lamians and Von Carsteins), the Strigoi tried to recapture the splendor of their homeland. Create cities, rule a populace, etcetera.
3) For the most part, they did this well enough. They had a people under them who were at least somewhat loyal, life went on for their living serfs (arguably better than for the remaining living of Nehekhara), and so on. However, eventually in one campaign, the majority of their military strength was away from their realms as Orcs invaded. Their lands were pretty much sacked / destroyed, leaving only a few isolated communities and those who were away alive.
4) The Strigoi turned to their brethren for aid, which was met with resounding "Lolno"s as people either just didn't care for those outside their bloodline (or even then), frowned upon the Strigoi's activities, or were just general dicks.
5) Strigoi, hunted by both Vampires and other civilizations, went into isolation and started to devolve as they embraced the "beast within" in order to survive.
This about right for a Strigoi summary?
Sounds about right, except for the "beast within" part.
It says that "In their desolation many of them lost their minds completely and became solitary, pathetic creatures, afraid of feeding on humans for fear of attracting the attention of the witch hunters or, even worse, of other Vampres." and then goes on to talk about how their physical appearance soon started to reflect their miserable conditions, etc and so on and so forth. Their magic is "instinctual" and "less subtle" when compared to Necromancy proper.
NatTreehouse wrote:What I know:
New Black Knights/Some other mounted stuff kit
New Dual Kit makes two war machine things, NEITHER is a Black Coach
Monstrous Infantry Dual Kit
Ghouls up to 10pts
Current Black Coach kit stays and goes finecost
February release.
That is all.
Frgt/10 wrote:
What I know:
New Dual Kit makes two war machine things, NEITHER is a Black Coach
Current Black Coach kit stays and goes finecost
February release.
this is all incorrect from what im hearing
ihavetoomuchminis wrote:Frgt 10 is right, that info is all wrong from what i've been told.
Black coach goes plastic.
January release (here we disagree).
Ghouls not 10 points (i don't know about that, but i don't see it).
Do We have a GW member here misinformating us?
Harry wrote:I think of what Nattreehouse says sounds about right.
The duel Black Coach kit in which neither is exactly a black coach Check.
The current black coach staying and going finecast. Check ... which along with the plague cart gives you a fair few 'wagon type war machines' to go at.
Duel Monsterous infantry. Check
I hadn't considered a duel cavalry kit.
I know about new cavalry ... so assumed no Black Riders ... but a duel kit is doable.
BUT this is an interesting situation as Frgt10 is normally bang on. Ihavetoomuchmins also hastoomuchaccurateinfo to be just guessing most of the time and ghost who is singing like a canary on the contingents thread is nowhere to be seen.
Ghouls going to 10 points is stupid. The reason Ghouls are taken over Skeletons isn't because Ghouls are too cheap, it's because Skeletons are too expensive.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/11 00:06:41
All this big kit stuff and various rumour flying about but no mention of an undead giant which would probably be enough for me to dust off my WHFB stuff.
How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website "
Whilst it doesn't happen as often as Codexes (for which there are no pereceivable pattern), Fantasy Army Books have been known to "jump the cycle". Empire, Orcs & Goblins, and High Elves are usually the guilty parties though...
EDIT - Scratch Empire from that list
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/11 09:47:18
-Loki- wrote:Ghouls going to 10 points is stupid. The reason Ghouls are taken over Skeletons isn't because Ghouls are too cheap, it's because Skeletons are too expensive.
It's a bit of both, actually. Ghouls are pretty darn good for 8 points.
Anyway, if they don't revamp the Coach with a new plastic kit I will be hugely disappointed. That metal/finecast model is no fun, and I've had one sitting around for years that I don't feel like assembling. BTW, if anybody wants to buy a Black Coach PM me.
-Loki- wrote:I wouldn't want an Undead Giant. While an obvious choice, I want to see some stuff that's a bit more creative.
-Loki- wrote:A hunched over, feral looking Giant to match the Ghouls I can get behind. That would look badass.
So an undead Giant then mate?
I have some ogre sized Skellies from grendal/grenadier from about 20 years ago. I sways wondered why GW necromancers could raise Ogre zombies/Skellies too!
What I would really like (however boring) would be Undead warmachines that aren't made of bloody bones! While I have two of both the original Screaming Skull catapult and chariot it always bugged me that they were bone. We get it they're bloomin dead!
How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website "
What I would really like (however boring) would be Undead warmachines that aren't made of bloody bones! While I have two of both the original Screaming Skull catapult and chariot it always bugged me that they were bone. We get it they're bloomin dead!
Maybe the underlying idea was that the undead lords could knit together those constructs using their mastery of dead matter (as opposed to the slightly ridiculous conceit of a bunch of skeletal carpenters labouring away to build a normal chariot/catapult).
I wouldn't really have a problem with an undead giant, but it seems kind of wasteful in comparison to the other releases that could be undertaken. It's much easier to convert a Zombie giant than it is to convert Flesh Golems or a plastic Black Coach. Plus, considering that the current Giant kit is designed for use by, what, three different armies? it's kind of hard to imagine GW releasing another, single-army, one-per-army, Giant kit.
Four, actually- It can be taken by Beastmen and WoCs.
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-Loki- wrote:Ghouls going to 10 points is stupid. The reason Ghouls are taken over Skeletons isn't because Ghouls are too cheap, it's because Skeletons are too expensive.
There's no reason to think that just because the ghouls are going up in points that the skeletons aren't going down in points as well. Hell, 10 point ghouls with 4 point skeletons would actually make me rethink what to take in my list.
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings. Look on My works, Ye Mighty, and despair.
Chris Gohlinghorst wrote:Holy Space Marine on a Stick.
This conversation has even begun to boggle my internet-hardened mind.
I love there to be more non human skeletons and zombies - How mnay dead Orks, skaven and beastmen are lying baout waiting to raised. Great models in the Cursed Company but a bit expensive. Plastic raised non human undead would be nice and unique on the market as far as I am aware.
Lahimirians tend to be very subtle and take a dim view of other Vampires trying to conquer the world and generally draw attention to them. They are working to take control, yes on behalf of the Queen of Silver Pinacle - be fun to have them as an option for human armies against other undead or Chaos etc
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LunaHound wrote:As much as i welcome a VC update, isn't it Wood Elf's turn soon?
Or does GW deem VC to be more profitable?
I mean we recently have Tomb Kings , and soon to be Necrons...
The last Elf update was IoB.
If you're factoring Necrons into your Undead list, then you need to factor Dark Eldar onto the annoying-whining-pointy-eared-gits side of the scales...
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
-Loki- wrote:I wouldn't want an Undead Giant. While an obvious choice, I want to see some stuff that's a bit more creative.
-Loki- wrote:A hunched over, feral looking Giant to match the Ghouls I can get behind. That would look badass.
So an undead Giant then mate?
No, a giant Ghoul. When I think Undead Giant, I think either a giant that's been zombified or peiced together like a giant flesh golem. It's an obvious, though hardly creative, choice. A giant Ghoul is very different.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ixquic wrote:It would be awesome if ghouls went back to being alive so that something in the army could take advantage of steadfast.
Unless they go all the way and make them skirmishers. Which would severely piss off a lot of people who have hordes of them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/12 00:20:33
So if VC are rumored to come out in January, does that mean we will not get pics/advance orders until half way through Jan?
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When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
Ixquic wrote:It would be awesome if ghouls went back to being alive so that something in the army could take advantage of steadfast.
Unless they go all the way and make them skirmishers. Which would severely piss off a lot of people who have hordes of them.
You wouldn't want them to be skirmishers. You'd want a ton of them so that you could have a steadfast unit with lots of ranks using the general's leadership 10 to make them never break. They would probably have to lose the ability to be raised into but it would make one of the core choices a little more different than the other two when most armies typically have more specialized stuff (ranged, skirmishing, ranked close combat, cavalry, etc) when Vampires just have three flavors of movement 4 infantry.
LunaHound wrote:They could only nerf ghouls which makes me sad.
Perhaps a feeding rule to not chase down broken units.
Harry wrote:Current black coach going Finecast (possibly/eventually)
New Kit making something black coach like and something quite different.
New Cavalry Kit (could be dual kit?) making new riders (and possibly black knights?)
Monsterous kit making 'uge flesh golem, ghoul, zombie type things and something else.
75hastings69 wrote:the something else being pretty much exactly the same, but with wings.
You forgot that Harry also all but said the "new kit" for the Black Coach is making a Lahmian and Necrarch version.
He implied that when he stated something to the effect of looking at the Strigoi and Blood Dragon representation on the Zombie Dragon/Terrorgheist kits
Pirate Vampire Counts - WIP
Feastmaster Ogre Kingdoms - WIP
Fire Lords Space Marines - working towards 1500pts
Word Bearers Chaos Space Marines - Modelling project
