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ShumaGorath wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Then those dividends are taxed at 15%.

And despite such crushing socialism corporate profits are the highest they have ever been and people are flocking to dividends as a way to cheat on their taxes. What do other countries do for tax structures relating to investment payouts? I know it's not nearly so contentious an issue in europe or the asias.

How are receiving dividends cheating on your taxes?

Its an income stream that individuals are taxed at often times half what the majority of America is going to have to pay for its own income. It's generates further income disparities as those with means are vastly more likely to receive excessive income from dividend payouts while the havenots are left paying higher taxes and working for their income.

So yeah, you don't have a job? You have a trust fund? You pay half the taxes of the next dude? Thats a legal form of tax evasion. Ignoring when people will pay themselves through dividends to avoid taxes entirely, it's just bad social engineering.

Half of America doesn't pay income taxes.
I can probably say a very large percentage of retired people recieve dividends. If you have a retirement plan, one day you will be paid dividends. Does that make you a cheater?

Frazzled wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Then those dividends are taxed at 15%.

And despite such crushing socialism corporate profits are the highest they have ever been and people are flocking to dividends as a way to cheat on their taxes. What do other countries do for tax structures relating to investment payouts? I know it's not nearly so contentious an issue in europe or the asias.

How are receiving dividends cheating on your taxes?

Its an income stream that individuals are taxed at often times half what the majority of America is going to have to pay for its own income. It's generates further income disparities as those with means are vastly more likely to receive excessive income from dividend payouts while the havenots are left paying higher taxes and working for their income.

So yeah, you don't have a job? You have a trust fund? You pay half the taxes of the next dude? Thats a legal form of tax evasion. Ignoring when people will pay themselves through dividends to avoid taxes entirely, it's just bad social engineering.

Half of America doesn't pay income taxes.
I can probably say a very large percentage of retired people recieve dividends. If you have a retirement plan, one day you will be paid dividends. Does that make you a cheater?

Yeah, i phrased that wrong. I'm smashing these out while at work so I'm going a bit fast. You caught it before I could edit it. My bad.


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Frazzled wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Then those dividends are taxed at 15%.

And despite such crushing socialism corporate profits are the highest they have ever been and people are flocking to dividends as a way to cheat on their taxes. What do other countries do for tax structures relating to investment payouts? I know it's not nearly so contentious an issue in europe or the asias.

How are receiving dividends cheating on your taxes?

Its an income stream that individuals are taxed at often times half what the majority of America is going to have to pay for its own income. It's generates further income disparities as those with means are vastly more likely to receive excessive income from dividend payouts while the havenots are left paying higher taxes and working for their income.

So yeah, you don't have a job? You have a trust fund? You pay half the taxes of the next dude? Thats a legal form of tax evasion. Ignoring when people will pay themselves through dividends to avoid taxes entirely, it's just bad social engineering.

Half of America doesn't pay income taxes.
I can probably say a very large percentage of retired people recieve dividends. If you have a retirement plan, one day you will be paid dividends. Does that make you a cheater?

I don't think that system is going to exist when I'm that age. It's a broken one. I doubt I'm gonna get social security either.

ShumaGorath wrote:I don't think that system is going to exist when I'm that age. It's a broken one. I doubt I'm gonna get social security either.

Thats not a system, thats stock ownership. Do you not think people are going to have retirement plans in the future?

ShumaGorath wrote:Its an income stream that individuals are taxed at often times half what the majority of America is going to have to pay for its own income. It's generates further income disparities as those with means are vastly more likely to receive excessive income from dividend payouts while the havenots are left paying higher taxes and working for their income.

So? The wealth that is generating the income has already been taxed. I don't see why it should be taxed again for earning interest or gains.

ShumaGorath wrote:So yeah, you don't have a job? You have a trust fund? You pay half the taxes of the next dude? Thats a legal form of tax evasion. Ignoring when people will pay themselves through dividends to avoid taxes entirely, it's just bad social engineering.

Interesting. So paying the amount of taxes you're legally required to pay is "tax evasion"?

Are you engaged in tax evasion?

Also, to answer your earlier question: Europe and Asia generally don't double tax corporate earnings.

ShumaGorath wrote:

broodstar wrote:And businesses don't pay tax, they pass them on to the consumer through raises in price, so when you tax a business you are actually taxing yourself. Once you realize that I'll talk to you about why I don't tax businesses.

Thats a beautiful cup full of koolaid you just handed out. I mean, if it was simply going to consumers and everything else was maintained upper management pay wouldn't have skyrocketed in the past 20 years! Clearly the tax rates are whats directing the gravy train in U.S. corporate boardrooms (well, the companies that actually pay the taxes anyway. That numbers surprisingly small.)

He's right.

If you run a corporation and all of a sudden the government tells you that your income will be reduced by 20%, what would you do? Probably raise prices, if you can afford to. (Of course, you would get undercut by foreign firms not subject to the same tax rates, but hey, too bad for American jobs).

ShumaGorath wrote:

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broodstar wrote:

biccat wrote:

Vulcan wrote:So... corporations no longer have to pay taxes under your plan? You seem to have left them out.

We can but dream.

Vulcan wrote:Corporations pay the percentage on profit, including stock dividends; not on gross. Is this enough? Not a tax lawyer or accountant; someone will have to enlighten me.

Corporations deduct all of their expenses (including salaries) then pay tax on that amount. After they've paid tax (35%) they distribute stock dividends.

Then those dividends are taxed at 15%.

And businesses don't pay tax, they pass them on to the consumer through raises in price, so when you tax a business you are actually taxing yourself. Once you realize that I'll talk to you about why I don't tax businesses.

Thats a beautiful cup full of koolaid you just handed out. I mean, if it was simply going to consumers and everything else was maintained upper management pay wouldn't have skyrocketed in the past 20 years! Clearly the tax rates are whats directing the gravy train in U.S. corporate boardrooms (well, the companies that actually pay the taxes anyway. That numbers surprisingly small.)

Actually you can see that you can see that quite clearly in tobacco (I know, I use it). In 2007 a can of Grizzly cost $1.49, in 2008 Obama signed a bill raising the tobacco tax by $1 per ounce, then the price of Grizzly was $2.49. Yesterday the price of a can if Grizzly was $3.89. How else do you expect the price of a good to rise $2.40 per unit in 5 years.

Frazzled wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:I don't think that system is going to exist when I'm that age. It's a broken one. I doubt I'm gonna get social security either.

Thats not a system, thats stock ownership. Do you not think people are going to have retirement plans in the future?

I don't think the stock market will function as it does now in the future. Its becoming steadily more unstable and confusing and it's creating economic instabilities that it was physically incapable of causing even 30 years ago. Either it will destroy itself or it will be transformed by some sort of desperate series of harsh international regulations. All the signs are pointing to further and deepening instability caused by the financial markets and transaction automation, the simplest prediction is that something will eventually go very wrong.


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broodstar wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

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broodstar wrote:

biccat wrote:

Vulcan wrote:So... corporations no longer have to pay taxes under your plan? You seem to have left them out.

We can but dream.

Vulcan wrote:Corporations pay the percentage on profit, including stock dividends; not on gross. Is this enough? Not a tax lawyer or accountant; someone will have to enlighten me.

Corporations deduct all of their expenses (including salaries) then pay tax on that amount. After they've paid tax (35%) they distribute stock dividends.

Then those dividends are taxed at 15%.

And businesses don't pay tax, they pass them on to the consumer through raises in price, so when you tax a business you are actually taxing yourself. Once you realize that I'll talk to you about why I don't tax businesses.

Thats a beautiful cup full of koolaid you just handed out. I mean, if it was simply going to consumers and everything else was maintained upper management pay wouldn't have skyrocketed in the past 20 years! Clearly the tax rates are whats directing the gravy train in U.S. corporate boardrooms (well, the companies that actually pay the taxes anyway. That numbers surprisingly small.)

Actually you can see that you can see that quite clearly in tobacco (I know, I use it). In 2007 a can of Grizzly cost $1.49, in 2008 Obama signed a bill raising the tobacco tax by $1 per ounce, then the price of Grizzly was $2.49. Yesterday the price of a can if Grizzly was $3.89. How else do you expect the price of a good to rise $2.40 per unit in 5 years.

Ahh, yes, you point out something where the price has risen specifically in response to vice taxes. Taxes put in place specifically to raise the price of the vices in question. Throw the dart again please.

There is a billion of examples, of how the taxes are being passed to you. Would you like me to start naming them off?

So? The wealth that is generating the income has already been taxed. I don't see why it should be taxed again for earning interest or gains.

Every form of worker compensation and payment has been taxed already farther up the chain. Why should the chosen pay method of the rich be exempted from paying into the pot all the normals have to pay into?

Interesting. So paying the amount of taxes you're legally required to pay is "tax evasion"?

When you set pay policy in your company and you pay yourself in dividends? Yeah. Its tax evasion in the same way that insider trading is insider trading even when congress does it. Laws aren't applied evenly, but when two revenue streams are identical except one can pay twice the taxes of the other than something has gone wrong.

Are you engaged in tax evasion?
Also, to answer your earlier question: Europe and Asia generally don't double tax corporate earnings.

Taxes on dividends aren't taxes on corporate earnings, they're taxes on income.

Also, to answer your earlier question: Europe and Asia generally don't double tax corporate earnings.

Please answer what I actually asked, don't just throw buzzword bs at me.

He's right.

No, not really. Otherwise corporate profits wouldn't be the highest they have been in history and executive pay wouldn't be the same. If our tax rate is so abominable than why the feth are they making (and then sharing with themselves) so much money?



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broodstar wrote:There is a billion of examples, of how the taxes are being passed to you. Would you like me to start naming them off?

No, because I'm quite convinced you don't actually understand most of the things you're talking about. If you really must though than I can't stop you.

The gas tax (at the pump), the energy taxes to your home, the communication tax on your phone.... The list goes on and on

biccat wrote:So? The wealth that is generating the income has already been taxed.

That is utterly irrelevant.

The wealth of the corporation is separate from the wealth of the shareholder because they are legally separate entities.

broodstar wrote:Explain to me how America doesn't spend too much of its budget on social welfare programs when medicare/medicaid is 120% of defense spending

Why should the government spend more on defense than on improving the lives of its citizens?

ShumaGorath wrote:


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broodstar wrote:There is a billion of examples, of how the taxes are being passed to you. Would you like me to start naming them off?

No, because I'm quite convinced you don't actually understand most of the things you're talking about. If you really must though than I can't stop you.

No Sir, it is I who am convinced that you don't know what is going and when you take the time to research and add up all the little taxes around you, you'll find at you are actually being taxed 75% of your income.

broodstar wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:


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broodstar wrote:There is a billion of examples, of how the taxes are being passed to you. Would you like me to start naming them off?

No, because I'm quite convinced you don't actually understand most of the things you're talking about. If you really must though than I can't stop you.

No Sir, it is I who am convinced that you don't know what is going and when you take the time to research and add up all the little taxes around you, you'll find at you are actually being taxed 75% of your income.

Adorable. This is the man that wanted to cut every government service including most essential services because the tax code was too complicated now telling me mathematically (with numbers!) how I am receiving fully one quarter of the money I should.

Melissia wrote:

broodstar wrote:Explain to me how America doesn't spend too much of its budget on social welfare programs when medicare/medicaid is 120% of defense spending

Why should the government spend more on defense than on improving the lives of its citizens?

The Federal government isn't supposed to be doing social welfare programs. The government to jobs, provide for the common defense and and monitor state to state trade.

broodstar wrote:

Melissia wrote:

broodstar wrote:Explain to me how America doesn't spend too much of its budget on social welfare programs when medicare/medicaid is 120% of defense spending

Why should the government spend more on defense than on improving the lives of its citizens?

The Federal government isn't supposed to be doing social welfare programs. The government to jobs, provide for the common defense and and monitor state to state trade.

And just who the hell decided that? The slave owners that wrote the initial system that our modern government doesn't particularly resemble? Ron Paul? Who the hell cares about state to state trade, we became the most powerful economy on earth by throwing the ideas of independent state economic governance out the window. Thats the exact kind of gak that is currently torpedoing Europe and you're posting some halt wits comics to try and prove an insoluble point about how it's better?

Melissia wrote:The wealth of the corporation is separate from the wealth of the shareholder because they are legally separate entities.

No it's not. We've been over this before. The corporation is an extension of the shareholders' common ownership.

ShumaGorath wrote:

So? The wealth that is generating the income has already been taxed. I don't see why it should be taxed again for earning interest or gains.

Every form of worker compensation and payment has been taxed already farther up the chain. Why should the chosen pay method of the rich be exempted from paying into the pot all the normals have to pay into?

Because we have an income tax scheme, not a wealth tax scheme.

ShumaGorath wrote:When you set pay policy in your company and you pay yourself in dividends? Yeah. Its tax evasion in the same way that insider trading is insider trading even when congress does it. Laws aren't applied evenly, but when two revenue streams are identical except one can pay twice the taxes of the other than something has gone wrong.

So paying the amount of taxes you're legally required to pay is "tax evasion"?

If you want to avoid paying taxes on money your company earns, you pay yourself a salary, not dividends. Salaries are paid pre-tax and top out at a federal rate of 35% (individual). Dividends are taxed first at the corporate level (35%) and then at the dividend level (15%), which is more expensive.

ShumaGorath wrote:Taxes on dividends aren't taxes on corporate earnings, they're taxes on income.

No, they're taxes on corporate earnings, just applied to the individual shareholder.

ShumaGorath wrote:Please answer what I actually asked, don't just throw buzzword bs at me.

Frankly, I don't care enough to scroll up and find out what you actually asked. Plus, I have no idea why you're being so hostile.

ShumaGorath wrote:No, not really. Otherwise corporate profits wouldn't be the highest they have been in history and executive pay wouldn't be the same. If our tax rate is so abominable than why the feth are they making (and then sharing with themselves) so much money?

Unless - and just bear with me here - corporate profits are at an all time high in spite of high corporate tax rates.

Whoa. Mind fething blown!

ShumaGorath wrote:And just who the hell decided that? The slave owners that wrote the initial system that our modern government doesn't particularly resemble? Ron Paul? Who the hell cares about state to state trade, we became the most powerful economy on earth by throwing the ideas of independent state economic governance out the window. Thats the exact kind of gak that is currently torpedoing Europe and you're posting some halt wits comics to try and prove an insoluble point about how it's better?

Slaveowners who wrote the US constitution are "currently torpedoing Europe"? What the hell?

ShumaGorath wrote:

Adorable. This is the man that wanted to cut every government service including most essential services because the tax code was too complicated now telling me mathematically (with numbers!) how I am receiving fully one quarter of the money I should.

OK, let focus on one commodity, say gas, How much of every dollar you pay at the pump is actually going to getting the oil company, would you say 99% or 100%?


Taxes: 13 cents
Distribution and Marketing: 8 cents
Refining: 14 cents
Crude oil: 65 cents

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficiency/fuel-consumption/gas-price1.htm

So, not only are you being taxed for your get your income but also being taxed for using that income. Take a look around examples of that are everywhere.

broodstar wrote:

biccat wrote:

Vulcan wrote:So... corporations no longer have to pay taxes under your plan? You seem to have left them out.

We can but dream.

Vulcan wrote:Corporations pay the percentage on profit, including stock dividends; not on gross. Is this enough? Not a tax lawyer or accountant; someone will have to enlighten me.

Corporations deduct all of their expenses (including salaries) then pay tax on that amount. After they've paid tax (35%) they distribute stock dividends.

Then those dividends are taxed at 15%.

And businesses don't pay tax, they pass them on to the consumer through raises in price, so when you tax a business you are actually taxing yourself. Once you realize that I'll talk to you about why I don't tax businesses.

Me and you own widget stalls. At the moment we are both competing with each other and charging $5 per widget, making $50k a year profit, of which 7.5k, 15%, is taxed.
The government raises corporation tax by 5%, and YOU respond by raising prices to $5.25, in order to retain your profit.
I, however, take the hit on my profits.
Which of us is going to get more customers?
Tax increases are only passed on to the consumer in a monopoly or a cartel (like energy in the UK).


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broodstar wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Adorable. This is the man that wanted to cut every government service including most essential services because the tax code was too complicated now telling me mathematically (with numbers!) how I am receiving fully one quarter of the money I should.

OK, let focus on one commodity, say gas, How much of every dollar you pay at the pump is actually going to getting the oil company, would you say 99% or 100%?


Taxes: 13 cents
Distribution and Marketing: 8 cents
Refining: 14 cents
Crude oil: 65 cents

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficiency/fuel-consumption/gas-price1.htm

So, not only are you being taxed for your get your income but also being taxed for using that income. Take a look around examples of that are everywhere.

Yes, it's called salex taxes. Point?

Joey wrote:Me and you own widget stalls. At the moment we are both competing with each other and charging $5 per widget, making $50k a year profit, of which 7.5k, 15%, is taxed.
The government raises corporation tax by 5%, and YOU respond by raising prices to $5.25, in order to retain your profit.
I, however, take the hit on my profits.
Which of us is going to get more customers?

If you could have taken the hit to your profits, why didn't you drop your price earlier in order to get more customers?

If I'm selling widgets at $5, but could afford the drop in profit by selling them at $4.75, why would I continue to compete with you for customers by selling them at $5?

biccat wrote:

Joey wrote:Me and you own widget stalls. At the moment we are both competing with each other and charging $5 per widget, making $50k a year profit, of which 7.5k, 15%, is taxed.
The government raises corporation tax by 5%, and YOU respond by raising prices to $5.25, in order to retain your profit.
I, however, take the hit on my profits.
Which of us is going to get more customers?

If you could have taken the hit to your profits, why didn't you drop your price earlier in order to get more customers?

If I'm selling widgets at $5, but could afford the drop in profit by selling them at $4.75, why would I continue to compete with you for customers by selling them at $5?

Because you have to maintain a profit margin? There's no evidence at all that raises in corporation tax is "passed on to the consumer" or every tax rise would result in an increase in inflation and the revenue raised would be irrelavent.

Joey wrote:Because you have to maintain a profit margin?

Why do I "have to maintain a profit margin" when the difference in earnings is price, but not when the difference in earnings is taxation?

I'm assuming the $0.25 difference is equal to the difference in tax obligation.

biccat wrote:

Joey wrote:Because you have to maintain a profit margin?

Why do I "have to maintain a profit margin" when the difference in earnings is price, but not when the difference in earnings is taxation?

I'm assuming the $0.25 difference is equal to the difference in tax obligation.

Mate I failed Business GNVQ don't ask me.

Joey wrote:

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broodstar wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Adorable. This is the man that wanted to cut every government service including most essential services because the tax code was too complicated now telling me mathematically (with numbers!) how I am receiving fully one quarter of the money I should.

OK, let focus on one commodity, say gas, How much of every dollar you pay at the pump is actually going to getting the oil company, would you say 99% or 100%?


Taxes: 13 cents
Distribution and Marketing: 8 cents
Refining: 14 cents
Crude oil: 65 cents

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficiency/fuel-consumption/gas-price1.htm

So, not only are you being taxed for your get your income but also being taxed for using that income. Take a look around examples of that are everywhere.

Yes, it's called salex taxes. Point?

That way to high to be sales tax, that's double what sales tax is. Anyways the point I am making is that everyone is taxed multiple times throughout the day. Your taxed for your income and then taxed for using your cell phone, tax at the pump, and on and on.

My proposal is that instead of all the little taxes throughout the year, why not consolidate them into one bill that the government sends you once a year? That way you get to keep all of your pay throughout that year, juggle your finances better, and be placing the tax payment into a bank account where it can accrue interest.


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Joey wrote:

biccat wrote:

Joey wrote:Me and you own widget stalls. At the moment we are both competing with each other and charging $5 per widget, making $50k a year profit, of which 7.5k, 15%, is taxed.
The government raises corporation tax by 5%, and YOU respond by raising prices to $5.25, in order to retain your profit.
I, however, take the hit on my profits.
Which of us is going to get more customers?

If you could have taken the hit to your profits, why didn't you drop your price earlier in order to get more customers?

If I'm selling widgets at $5, but could afford the drop in profit by selling them at $4.75, why would I continue to compete with you for customers by selling them at $5?

Because you have to maintain a profit margin? There's no evidence at all that raises in corporation tax is "passed on to the consumer" or every tax rise would result in an increase in inflation and the revenue raised would be irrelavent.

Have you ever stopped to think that the taxation on goods maybe the cause of the inflation.

broodstar wrote:
That way to high to be sales tax, that's double what sales tax is. Anyways the point I am making is that everyone is taxed multiple times throughout the day. Your taxed for your income and then taxed for using your cell phone, tax at the pump, and on and on.

My proposal is that instead of all the little taxes throughout the year, why not consolidate them into one bill that the government sends you once a year? That way you get to keep all of your pay throughout that year, juggle your finances better, and be placing the tax payment into a bank account where it can accrue interest.

Well it would be policially unpalitable in the United States, for one. In Denmark IIRC their average citizen is taxed at 55% but sales taxes are almost negligent and quality of life is very high.
There is definitely something to be said for consolidating all taxes (except alcohol and tobacco tax, if you like, not entirely decided myself) into income tax. The amount you'd save on beurocracy would be huge, for a start.

broodstar wrote:
Have you ever stopped to think that the taxation on goods maybe the cause of the inflation.

Our government recently raised VAT by 2.5% and as a concequence inflation rocketed. So yes.
However inflation occurrs for many complicated reasons. Sales tax may be one of them but it's temporary. For example in January of last year the rise in sales tax occurred, so inflation immediately jumped from ~3 to 5%. Now last month it "dropped out" and inflation is down to 3.5%. Inflation still occurrs regardless of sales tax. It's not like the Weimar Republic collapsed because they had a billion percent sales tax.

broodstar wrote:

biccat wrote:

Vulcan wrote:So... corporations no longer have to pay taxes under your plan? You seem to have left them out.

We can but dream.

Vulcan wrote:Corporations pay the percentage on profit, including stock dividends; not on gross. Is this enough? Not a tax lawyer or accountant; someone will have to enlighten me.

Corporations deduct all of their expenses (including salaries) then pay tax on that amount. After they've paid tax (35%) they distribute stock dividends.

Then those dividends are taxed at 15%.

And businesses don't pay tax, they pass them on to the consumer through raises in price, so when you tax a business you are actually taxing yourself. Once you realize that I'll talk to you about why I don't tax businesses.

A great example of how businesses pass taxes onto the consumer was the expiration of aviation taxes last year. When the aviation taxes expired in July all the customers buying airline tickets got instant savings when the cost of tickets went down. Taxes that no longer needed to be collected resulted in instant savings for consumers .

But what actually happened was that as soon as the airlines no longer needed to collect $x for each ticket sold, they raised the prices of each ticket by $x. The airlines realized that people were willing to pay $500 for an airline ticket (random number), so they decided that if the government would no longer take their cut they would just keep the end price the same and pocket the difference. Call me a "corporations are evil" guy if you want. But if a business knows that you have always been willing to pay $50 for something, then why would they drop the price to $45 just because they don't have to pay taxes? The price of an item is set by what the market is willing to pay, not what the cost is to the company.

The primary responsibility of a company is to make the maximum amount of profit they can. Passing tax savings onto the consumer is not part of that responsibility.

Joey wrote:

broodstar wrote:
That way to high to be sales tax, that's double what sales tax is. Anyways the point I am making is that everyone is taxed multiple times throughout the day. Your taxed for your income and then taxed for using your cell phone, tax at the pump, and on and on.

My proposal is that instead of all the little taxes throughout the year, why not consolidate them into one bill that the government sends you once a year? That way you get to keep all of your pay throughout that year, juggle your finances better, and be placing the tax payment into a bank account where it can accrue interest.

Well it would be policially unpalitable in the United States, for one. In Denmark IIRC their average citizen is taxed at 55% but sales taxes are almost negligent and quality of life is very high.
There is definitely something to be said for consolidating all taxes (except alcohol and tobacco tax, if you like, not entirely decided myself) into income tax. The amount you'd save on beurocracy would be huge, for a start.

Actually America is a mix. Liberals are generally found in the northern states like Maine, New Hampshire, and New York, as well as the Pacific Coast like California, Nevada and Washington. Conservatives is usually found in southern state like Alabama, Georgia and Kentucky as well as interior states like Omaha,Texas and Wyoming.

broodstar wrote:

Joey wrote:

broodstar wrote:
That way to high to be sales tax, that's double what sales tax is. Anyways the point I am making is that everyone is taxed multiple times throughout the day. Your taxed for your income and then taxed for using your cell phone, tax at the pump, and on and on.

My proposal is that instead of all the little taxes throughout the year, why not consolidate them into one bill that the government sends you once a year? That way you get to keep all of your pay throughout that year, juggle your finances better, and be placing the tax payment into a bank account where it can accrue interest.

Well it would be policially unpalitable in the United States, for one. In Denmark IIRC their average citizen is taxed at 55% but sales taxes are almost negligent and quality of life is very high.
There is definitely something to be said for consolidating all taxes (except alcohol and tobacco tax, if you like, not entirely decided myself) into income tax. The amount you'd save on beurocracy would be huge, for a start.

Actually America is a mix. Liberals are generally found in the northern states like Maine, New Hampshire, and New York, as well as the Pacific Coast like California, Nevada and Washington. Conservatives is usually found in southern state like Alabama, Georgia and Kentucky as well as interior states like Omaha,Texas and Wyoming.

I am aware of this...

And what doesn't help is that America is in the middle of a massive culture war, so ideological tensions are really high.

broodstar wrote:And what doesn't help is that America is in the middle of a massive culture war, so ideological tensions are really high.

A massive, real, and thoroughly manufactured culture war.

Actually I think the tensions are so high that the culture war will go hot, (that liberals and conservatives will start shooting each other.) and a civil war will happen. But I pray that I'm wrong.


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Anyway, back to the topic.

So, what can we walk away from this with?

biccat wrote:No it's not. We've been over this before.

And you've consistently been wrong.

The corporation is a separate entity, therefor it is taxed separately. If it wasn't a separate entity, it'd not have all the rights of being one. But of course, it is a separate entity, with separate legal rights, with the shareholders not being liable for its actions.