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 Enigwolf wrote:

MVBrandt wrote:
I think smaller bases for an army that needs to often fit into key firing lanes could be seen as an advantage. Also, blasts generally are going to get more hits on larger footprints by virtue of the fact that two thirds of blast shots scatter.

That said, like with super old DP, we can't really make you use new model bases. As long as it's not the new broadside on a 40mm.

Does this same thing apply to the old 2nd/3rd ed Terminator squads that were mounted on 25mm bases?

That's been the standard for years. Termies are on 40mm.

But if they are the old metal ones they would be legal on 25mm. It's the base they came with and that's also been the rule for years. Granted, people should all have rebased by now.

 Hulksmash wrote:
But if they are the old metal ones they would be legal on 25mm. It's the base they came with and that's also been the rule for years. Granted, people should all have rebased by now.

NEVER!!!!

 Hulksmash wrote:
But if they are the old metal ones they would be legal on 25mm. It's the base they came with and that's also been the rule for years. Granted, people should all have rebased by now.

So, it's the base they came on? That will make my 2nd ed. IG heavy weapons much easier to field...

No base = put on current base

Previously provided base means it's the legal base!

So many smarty pants on the internet and I'm not one of them

 Tomb King wrote:

KillswitchUK wrote:
Orcourwe..smaller bases allow you to deoloy them easier gaining a huge advantage.

lol, yes a totally massive advantage. Base size matters more on assault based units, whereas you can get more into combat. Having smaller bases actually means I can take more hits from blast weapons. Plus its the bases that the models originally came with.

Id say the advantages of using old ones far outweighs the downsides:
-Old ones are much easier to scatter off of with a blast, though they could potentially offer up more "hits" on the first placement if the scatter die hits (on a 1/3 chance + low scatter distance)
-Much easier to hide behind terrain as they're about half the size of the new ones, add in that broadsides now have a weapon that doesn't require LOS, and hiding them easier is a big advantage
-Easier to push more guys into an advantageous firing lane if desired

I'd lean towards it needs to be like converted models, you cant gain an advantage from it. Put them on the correct base, and in LOS cases use the size of the new one. Look at the example of old terminators versus new - pretty much no one will allow terminators on 25mm bases anymore, and that's just because it's been "long enough" that people "should have" changed them. For an event as big as nova, new bases probably aren't a big deal.

Hulksmash wrote:Looking forward to Nova already. Good news is that it seems there aren't going to be any books at this point that come out that are legal for Nova before the event so I can settle on an army in the current codex environment

Doesn't mean I know yet what the heck I'm bringing but it does make it a bit easier knowing there won't be any new books to throw what I build for a loop

With the Tau Codex and then the Eldar codex my CSM/Necron build is pretty much nixed. Been playing with a couple of idea's but having issues with taking a decent TAC list that doesnt have one or two counters. Can your list beat my DA 4 Landraider list that can now combat squad out of their transports late game? The build actually got better with that faq.

Target wrote:

 Tomb King wrote:

KillswitchUK wrote:
Orcourwe..smaller bases allow you to deoloy them easier gaining a huge advantage.

lol, yes a totally massive advantage. Base size matters more on assault based units, whereas you can get more into combat. Having smaller bases actually means I can take more hits from blast weapons. Plus its the bases that the models originally came with.

Id say the advantages of using old ones far outweighs the downsides:
-Old ones are much easier to scatter off of with a blast, though they could potentially offer up more "hits" on the first placement if the scatter die hits (on a 1/3 chance + low scatter distance)
-Much easier to hide behind terrain as they're about half the size of the new ones, add in that broadsides now have a weapon that doesn't require LOS, and hiding them easier is a big advantage
-Easier to push more guys into an advantageous firing lane if desired

I'd lean towards it needs to be like converted models, you cant gain an advantage from it. Put them on the correct base, and in LOS cases use the size of the new one. Look at the example of old terminators versus new - pretty much no one will allow terminators on 25mm bases anymore, and that's just because it's been "long enough" that people "should have" changed them. For an event as big as nova, new bases probably aren't a big deal.

The way I use mine cover doesnt matter. They are kitted out with a commander with his only roll being to point at which targets to shoot and to take hits for them. So firing arcs hardly matter unless their are alot of BLOS terrain. The bigger bases would allow me to spread out better and cover a bigger area. If being shot at with blast weapons I would rather have bigger bases then smaller ones. Less possible damage. 33% time they hit and then bs 2-7 dictates further accuracy. This isnt even including prescience and twin linked weapons.

Bottom line is they are metal models and they are glued down and painted. I would have to break them to remount them effectively. It is a 3 model unit so if it is allowed then I am just gonna leave them as is.

I actually have the old DP models that were mentioned and have refitted them to the bigger bases as I think assault units in particular benefit from smaller bases.

Glad Target made the obvious points..obvious. saved me typing.

@Tomb King: Bottom line is re base them and dont cheat..it really isnt that hard to get new bases..hell the fact that you havent dished out to the knew gorgeous models baffles me.

If that is your inly validating arguement..fine..nonproblem..but if it comes to los and blast templates I woukd expect your opponent to raise this issue with you..ir you coukd take advantagw if peoples kindness and just get the bestbfire lines and the least coverage of a blast template.

P.s. excuse my spelling..typing on the phone sucks!

@Tombking

It could from my Bugeater list onward. I made a few tweaks. Plus, it'll be harder to get a 4++ invul on the Raiders now.

But I'm probably not running anything like that list. 2 Best Overall's and a Best Painted out of 4 events means I'm a bit over it (hear that tooting? That's me with my horn)

KillswitchUK wrote:

P.s. excuse my spelling..typing on the phone sucks!

Ill excuse that and the allegations that I do it to cheat. You do realize that the TO for the entire event said it was ok? I merely providing you with my reasoning. Something that wasn't even required of me as it was already deemed acceptable. Sorry I havent forked up the $150 to replace the models I already have despite moving last month, buying a new car, and paying for the new dog.

Hulksmash wrote:@Tombking

It could from my Bugeater list onward. I made a few tweaks. Plus, it'll be harder to get a 4++ invul on the Raiders now.

But I'm probably not running anything like that list. 2 Best Overall's and a Best Painted out of 4 events means I'm a bit over it (hear that tooting? That's me with my horn)

lol yea I can hear the horn all the way in FT. Riley. Now you just need to figure out how to ground FMC's.

I hate FMC's. No one I play ever fails the dang tests. Or if they do it's after the last shots of the phase and I fail to wound or they make their invul.....

Anyway, if the new terrain has rules in the boxes Mike are they going to be legal to use?

Let's see what the rules are first. If it's "40k approved" D weapons, no :-P

 Hulksmash wrote:
I hate FMC's. No one I play ever fails the dang tests. Or if they do it's after the last shots of the phase and I fail to wound or they make their invul.....

Anyway, if the new terrain has rules in the boxes Mike are they going to be legal to use?

Wall of Martyrs - Firestorm Redoubt
Rules for using this scenery piece in games of Warhammer 40,000 are included in the box.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod2130100a

Yeah, I knew it had rules (at least they say they do) so I was asking if they were going to be legal.

Glocknall wrote:
The reviews on that bottle are hilarious.

I know this is from a page ago, but I just read through them all... and yes, yes they are

 Tomb King wrote:
Bottom line is they are metal models and they are glued down and painted. I would have to break them to remount them effectively. It is a 3 model unit so if it is allowed then I am just gonna leave them as is.

I'd take the model on the 40mm base and just put it on top of a 60mm base, and fill in the space like they're sitting on a hill. The extra height from the base stacking has the benefit of bringing the old broadsides up to the height of the new ones. No need to break any models.

1st degree burns to my urethra, had to go to the hospital

This is not a joke, I had a catheter and was sedated

Probably my favorite. There is a incredibly strong (and stupid) urge inside of me to try this stuff. I know I will hate myself if I do.

Reserve your rooms now if you're still sitting on the trigger for registration itself; we're starting to run low on Doubles rooms, and the rate of $85/night doesn't last forever.

Registration continues to be way up in pretty much all events - don't miss out on your preferences.

FAQ questions - go to http://whiskey40k.blogspot.com/2013/07/final-mission-packet-notice-faq-call-out.html

We plan to have that published within the next couple weeks. It's getting crazy in NOVA town!

I'm sure the question on everyone's mind is.... will there be a new NOVA 2013 shot glass this year?

How could there not be?!

Ah, thank god. The two I own from 2011 and 2012 are among my most prized possessions.

Mike you've seen some of my new Tau allies conversions. Is there anybody things like that should get run by at the beginning of the weekend?

I have to second that since I'm likely bringing a heavily converted army.

Also, Tau & Eldar supplements. Are they legit for the tournamnet and do they count as being the primary book for allies (i.e. no allying Eldar w/Iyanden or Tau w/Farsight Enclace). I assume the answer is yes for both but wanted to make sure

Generally speaking, counts-as conversions and unique army builds are fine.

The caveats that apply are always two-fold:
1) Do everything in YOUR power to prevent your opponent making a mistake as a result of your conversions/counts-as

2) Any model that is not the stock-standard variety gains no advantages as a result of its differences, and sustains any disadvantages as a result of its differences, even if in both cases the difference is an advantage at times, and disadvantage at times (meaning, said difference could very well be played differently at multiple points in the same game).

Simple example of #2 - let's say you have a slightly oversized base; should a blast marker touch your base when it would not if you were properly sized, it counts as a hit. Yet, if the slightly larger size would subsequently in the same turn yield a charge that would otherwise fall short, it falls short.


Regarding #1 - this one is more critical / important. In the case of your army, Werner, your Riptide is fine. Namely, the one model in your army on an oval base is both the correct size proportions, and is the Riptide. Your opponent can reasonably be expected to know the only model in your entire army on an oval base is in fact the only model that comes on an oval base (tautologically, of course).

That said, let's create an example custom and beautiful army of, say, Victorian Gentlemen as Space Wolves.

In this army, all of the person's Grey Hunters are wearing medium sized top hats and black overcoats. All of his Wolf Guard are wearing very large top hats and brown overcoats. All of his Blood Claws are hatless and wearing suspenders and overalls.

In this case, the army needs a dramatic addition to make it clear to opponents what is what DURING the game. Simply explaining that these different appearance but otherwise similar base size / etc. models all count as different things is insufficient, b/c you put an unfair onus on your opponent to keep track of "what's what" in the heat of play. Simply reminding him all the time is NOT sufficient.

In this case, I would recommend a minimum effort of taking some index cards, writing what each unit is on them in large sharpie, and keeping the cards with each unit (propped up, underneath it a little, etc.). That way, at any time if he looks at your Gentlemen (in the Victorian Wolves example), he'll see "GREY HUNTERS" or "WOLF GUARD" and not try to remember or be forced to constantly ask while also trying to figure out strategies and not blatantly broadcast them.

You would also be welcome to take further steps like cute little banners with the actual unit type on them or really whatever, but the point is - if you are running a FULLY converted army where nothing is as modeled, or even something close to this, you need to do something that gives your opponent utter clarity over what's what DURING play, without having to constantly ask.

Other than that, go buck wild - we encourage conversions at NOVA, and do not require use of GW models. Just keep in mind, when in any doubt, we will always err on the side of those who are not converted.

PS - To go back to the Victorian Wolves mock-up, if you do something like this army and DO NOT make blatant markers such as the index card example, this could SEVERELY harm you in the case of a dishonest opponent. To wit, if he charged your Blood Claws, only to genuinely or falsely claim he thought they were Grey Hunters and was too confused to tell, judges would be instructed to go with the non-converted player (even if in this case it resulted in your units literally swapping places). So, take the extra step if you're running a fully counts-as army ... index cards are super cheap!

You didn't answer the supplement question......ANSWER ME!!!!

OH, right ... well everyone should read the radical counts-as-question answer above also.

The supplements will be legal SO LONG AS they are available as at least ebook and ibook. That's to say, if you can read them on ANY smart phone or computer, then they're legal (presuming 30+ days in advance).

If Farsight only releases on Apple products this Saturday, and does not release on Android/open-source products until a couple months from now, it will NOT be legal.

In short, if everyone has the opportunity to purchase/view the rules (just as with print codices), they're legal. Otherwise, no.

And leaning YES on 40k-legal Apoc Fortification legality (the BS2 auto-firing quad gun, and the punisher thing).

Glad to hear it. It's suppose to be out on both platforms this Saturday so that means both supplements are in. Coolio.

And yeah, the fortifications aren't a worry I don't think for unbalancing with all the auto-firing and point costs.

I thank you sir, and your above answer for counts-as was excellent. Glad to see it hasn't changed, just wanted to make sure you didn't have someone to send stuff to like some other events do to approve :0

 Hulksmash wrote:
Glad to hear it. It's suppose to be out on both platforms this Saturday so that means both supplements are in. Coolio.

And yeah, the fortifications aren't a worry I don't think for unbalancing with all the auto-firing and point costs.

I thank you sir, and your above answer for counts-as was excellent. Glad to see it hasn't changed, just wanted to make sure you didn't have someone to send stuff to like some other events do to approve :0

I appreciate it when people do send things for pre-approval, but only in the sense of it protecting themselves. The policy is wholly geared toward encouraging whoever to model whatever in terms of getting creative, but to aggressively protect opponents from MFA. There's no way for MFA to assist you at NOVA, and every way for it to harm you. Caveat emptor on attending w/ intentional MFA.

MVBrandt wrote:
Update re: FW; will reflect in primer shortly:
NO FW rules for GT
40k-Approved/Unique for TT
Open for Narrative

I am out. It looks like they caved to Blackmoor and some of the other players that have attended Nova in the past.
In the front of IA1 SE - It states "these rules should be considered official". So, you are not allowing official Warhammer 40,000
units in the tournament and are discouraging many players from attending.

And Brandt, you have no evidence that the FW IA rules are not playtested. That is speculation and opinion coming from a select
few players. This event will be run using heavy house rules, and I don't play competitively with a bunch of house rules. The rulebooks
already take care of that.

The ruling was made long before Blackmoor's thread.

I'm sorry you're so upset about this one! Just as with AdeptiCon and many of the other major events, we run full and open FW in some of our premier 40k events, limited in some, and restricted in some.

It's all about working toward the majority, I'm afraid, and there will always be extreme crowds on both sides of some issues that we can't entirely satisfy. I DO feel bad that you're unhappy about it, however; the enjoyment of attendees and promotion of the hobby are literally the ONLY things we get out of running the NOVA Open. Maybe a little satisfaction of a job well done. Seeing anyone put out is never pleasant for us.