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Shepherd23 wrote:
So lets say a judge somehow determines that Romeo has a case. Does this mean that another case will follow or will it be determined by this judge as well?

If it is not this judge that will handle it, Does Romeo then get choice of venue?

You know how on Law and Order: SVU the episode always begins with a crime that at least seems to be sexual, but even if it is just a vanilla murder the SVU team keeps investigating it anyway?

That is sort of the situation here. The allegations are before a Court. The facts are what they are, and once a Court starts working on something, it wastes time and money to make someone else start all over. The suit will remain before that Court and that Judge unless someone tries to move it, unless I am missing something.

http://www.popehat.com/2013/05/02/battlefoam-learns-why-legal-threats-can-be-dangerous/

Popehat has a post up about this now. Nothing particularly in depth, but hopefully if the case moves forward he'll post more.


A bit more hidden in the comments, which I'll post up because lots of folks skip comments in blog posts:

WRT the C&D being over done:

Here's a few of the things that make it blustery:

1. They demand removal of all mentions of Battlefoam et al, but "at a minimum" the allegedly defamatory article. There's no basis to remove anything but the defamatory article.

2. The demand for attorney fees within one week.

3. The demand to post an attorney-provided affidavit (which, by the way, is a trick; any affidavit admitting the statements were false could be used against Hayden later, because the promise not to sue in the letter is inadequate).

4. A one-week deadline.

WRT some of the defamation stuff:

Also, with respect to Battlefoam's claim that it is defamatory to say that Filip threatened customers, a search turned up this claim.

If it is true that Filip sent a message like this:

From: Battle Foam
Title: You can hide, but not forever…

Hey clown, I'll tell you this one time and one time only. I will find out who you are and we will handle this like men. Not only are you full of gak and causing drama in all kinds of place but you have no fething clue who I am and what I am capable of doing.

Do me the biggest favor and tell me who you are. Tell me what your name is and what part of the world you live in. I'm guessing you'll continue to hide on forums and trash talk me.

When I find out who you are, and I will we will take care of this. I promise you that. You have pushed this to far and you are now my new hobby.

Tick, tick, tick, your time is coming.

. . . then it will be very difficult to prove it's defamatory to say he threatened someone.

 Kirasu wrote:
Romeo seems to have a severe anger problem. That is not a good quality in a business owner.

My only experience with Battle foam is great product, terrible customer service.

40k-noob wrote:

 Warboss Gubbinz wrote:
I think the fact that Romeo can't stand his own business reputation and decided to do this instead of change his ways gives me enough of a reason not to order the XL i was looking at for my 30k Iron Warriors Project.

Time to go with Sabol instead.

The Black Label series of cases from Battlefoam are just Hardigg cases with BF stamped on them.

Find yourself a Hardigg case on the cheap from ebay or elsewhere and just get yourself some custom foam trays.


Compare:
BF
Black Label J-8 Case w/Trays @ 249
Inside Case Dimensions - 18.5W x 13L x 7H" (470W x 330L x 178H mm)

Ebay
Hardigg IM2450 case @ 135
Inside Case Dimensions - 18.00" x 13.00" x 8.40" (45.7 x 33 x 21.3 cm)

Roughly the same case, 100+ cheaper.

Expect a C&D letter shortly...

 Inquisitor_Malice wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
I did enjoy the stickers in the elevator at Adepticon though

Yeah - and of course the stickers caused issues that AdeptiCon and Westin staff had to deal with since they were placed on other vendor booths and throughout different areas in the hotel. Westin staff were not happy with this and neither were some of the other vendors that we work with.

So a message to the person / people who did this. Please find a different method of protest. Because while you may have achieved some personal satisfaction, all you did was cause problems for an overworked volunteer AdeptiCon staff and an hotel that tries to bring you a wonderful atmosphere to meet up with other enthusiasts.

I just found them amusing. At the same time I hope they caught the person doing as I love the Westin who has been very accomodating to me personally and it seems the convention as a whole.

Basically I laughed then winced. Knowing it was going to cause issues with the Adepticon Staff and the Hotel. I do feel for you guys, it would only have made it a longer weekend.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Sorry, I'm still struggling to work out what this suit is over?

When a boy foam company and a girl foam company get together, they share a special kiss. Sometimes another girl foam company doesn't like this, and cooks their pet rabbit.

 Frazzled wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Sorry, I'm still struggling to work out what this suit is over?

When a boy foam company and a girl foam company get together, they share a special kiss. Sometimes another girl foam company doesn't like this, and cooks their pet rabbit.

Your weiner dog taught you that, didn't he? I knew they were smart....

I've never dealt with Battlefoam personally, but I know others who have and I have heard nothing but bad things about their customer service. I also have a friend who met Romeo and was told that he is a complete donkey-cave. I'm quite interested to see how this turns out. I foresee it ending very badly for Romeo.

Oh no, Romeo, please don't send a C&D at me too.

 Polonius wrote:

Shepherd23 wrote:
You are correct in this. What I meant by saying that it is pointless, is that this should never have come to a court in the first place. The whole C&D nonsense was pointless.

A C&D is like asking a girl for her phone number: it doesn't cost much, and sometimes you get lucky.

alas, sometimes her boyfriend is there, and kicks your ass. In this case, they got hit with a complaint for DJ, which meant they couldn't file suit locally, and now have to respond.

Of course, if the statements made by BoK are not true, then a C&D is actually not a bad thing to do. Based on what I've heard, they were pretty inflamatory. Of course, BoK has multiple affirmative defenses...

Polonius wins for acquainting a legal document with dating advice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Darth Bob wrote:
I've never dealt with Battlefoam personally, but I know others who have and I have heard nothing but bad things about their customer service. I also have a friend who met Romeo and was told that he is a complete donkey-cave. I'm quite interested to see how this turns out. I foresee it ending very badly for Romeo.

Oh no, Romeo, please don't send a C&D at me too.

Too late. C&D and threatening email incoming.

 Frazzled wrote:

Too late. C&D and threatening email incoming.

I'm expecting him to send me an email asking me to tell him where I live while he elaborates on how 'I don't know what he's capable of'.



/sarcasm
Who would have thought that the maker of miniature storage could be such a scary guy.
/sarcasm

 Frazzled wrote:

40k-noob wrote:

 Warboss Gubbinz wrote:
I think the fact that Romeo can't stand his own business reputation and decided to do this instead of change his ways gives me enough of a reason not to order the XL i was looking at for my 30k Iron Warriors Project.

Time to go with Sabol instead.

The Black Label series of cases from Battlefoam are just Hardigg cases with BF stamped on them.

Find yourself a Hardigg case on the cheap from ebay or elsewhere and just get yourself some custom foam trays.


Compare:
BF
Black Label J-8 Case w/Trays @ 249
Inside Case Dimensions - 18.5W x 13L x 7H" (470W x 330L x 178H mm)

Ebay
Hardigg IM2450 case @ 135
Inside Case Dimensions - 18.00" x 13.00" x 8.40" (45.7 x 33 x 21.3 cm)

Roughly the same case, 100+ cheaper.

Expect a C&D letter shortly...

I have Family in Arizona. If he threatens me to meet and settle it like a man, I will make that happen next time I visit Az.

Another little update in the popehat comments, re california's anti-SLAPP statute:

California's anti-SLAPP statute wouldn't apply to the complaint. But it could apply to any cross-complaint Battlefoam files.

Info about California's anti-SLAPP statute:

http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/anti-slapp-law-california

Quick summary:
Hearing gets scheduled within 30 days. (the matter could be resolved very quickly).
No discovery.
Costs award.
Possibility of a SLAPPback suit which lets you collect damages for abuse of process.




-------

How to get information from the courthouse on this case (for those interested)

This link should work:

http://icms.cc-courts.org/tellme/tellme/topics.asp?language=ENGLISH&courtcode=A&casetype=CIV&casenumber=MSC13-00674

To get actual copies of the documents filed I think we have to either write the courthouse or go in person unfortunately.

Should be interesting to see Romeo try and dig his way out of this.

My experience with BF is rather limited, but this thread has brought to light many claims and statements from Romeo that just shut down any thought of buying his product.

He's lucky his company is privately owned, as I could damn near guarantee that stock holders would demand his removal from active roles in the company with behavior like this. Quite unprofessional.

I am subscribing to this thread with great interest.
Definitely seems like a case of BattleFoam getting their bluff called.
It also seems like a lot of tit-for-tat pettiness.
Finally, I find it hilarious that BattleFoam now has to travel to CA to respond.
I'd like to see this thread continue in much the same way the CHS v. GW thread has, i.e. with updates and facts about the suit.

Seriously, why?

What's there to prove? So some dude said some crap about you, so what...from the sounds of it many people say many things. My thought has always been in most of these cases, that unless there is some truth to it why give it power? Granted there is over-the-line and without having seen the blog post in question, I can only say this; You throw rocks at a wasp nest, you will get results...that goes for both parties involved.

Who would have thought miniature wargaming would turn in to such a legal battlefield?

I'll probably receive some flak for this but I'm siding with Romeo on this one from a purely business perspective.

I had the opportunity to move to AZ about 2 years ago and went to all of the local hobby shops. Out of all of them, Romeo and the Battlefoam Gaming Saloon accepted me with open arms and made me feel like I was their best customer every time I walked through those doors. Even though I was only a "customer" in the other local shops, Romeo was very friendly and helpful. I've seen him working in his office for countless hours (well beyond the normal grind of the 9-5er). Romeo has a clear and dedicated passion for this business which is why I can see why he would take something like that article to heart.

I haven't read the article but judging by the bits and pieces I put together I can counter a few of the "potential" claims being made. For starters, I've never seen Romeo raise his voice let alone yell at any of his customers (potential or current). He always sounds very humble when he's on the phone. The amount of professionalism I see from him on a daily basis is a testament to why his business has done so well. He takes pride in what he puts his name on and isn't trying to merely sell something to you to make a quick buck. This business isn't an easy one. If it was, there'd be a whole lot more companies trying to do the same thing. I've played a few games in the Saloon and even with Battlefoam logos and product on 50% of the walls, not once did Romeo or the BF staff ever give crap to someone who came in to play some games that brought in a competitor's bag/foam. I made a joke about it once and Romeo just casually said "It's all good. We're here to hobby and have fun. If he sees something he likes here maybe he'll buy it." I've never once seen or heard Romeo deface any competitors in front of an audience or just between myself and him.

From a business standpoint, Romeo has a right to protect his and his company's image from these claims. Reputation is a key selling factor. If you were told something horrendous about a company you support, wouldn't you consider doing business elsewhere even if their product is superior? And why would they do that? Guilt by association. That is why Romeo is justifiably doing everything in his power to defend himself. These claims are not only affecting Battlefoam but any other company that he carries a license for (Privateer Press, Mantic, ect). I'm sure those companies wouldn't want to associate themselves with another based on claims made in a blog so I fully support Romeo's actions in this matter. He has the right to protect his business. Something like this could be potentially devastating so he needs to take the best course of action in order to protect himself, his business, and his partners.

I know I don't have much of a dog in this fight but I feel like I owe it to the man who welcomed me so warmly when I first arrived.

 DrLegend wrote:
That is why Romeo is justifiably doing everything in his power to defend himself. These claims are not only affecting Battlefoam but any other company that he carries a license for (Privateer Press, Mantic, ect). I'm sure those companies wouldn't want to associate themselves with another based on claims made in a blog so I fully support Romeo's actions in this matter. He has the right to protect his business. Something like this could be potentially devastating so he needs to take the best course of action in order to protect himself, his business, and his partners.

It would be good to see the allegedly defamatory article. It doesn't seem to be cached anywhere. I'm not sure why it wasn't included with the released complaint (it was filed with it as exhibit A).

My personal relationship with Battlefoam is best described as 'neutral'... I use and like their product, but have had some CS issues that diminish the overall rating.

However, here's the thing: Complaining about negative reviews rarely, if ever does much positive. It often ends like this, with continued comments about the incident that can have a much wider and more negative impact than the original comment.

It is very possible to be a nice guy in person and very professional and a donkey-cave on the internet. I'm living proof!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

czakk wrote:
I'm not sure why it wasn't included with the released complaint (it was filed with it as exhibit A).

Because it was removed since it was being complained about. It wouldn't be bright to include a link to it right on BOK.

Regardless of how valid or in-valid the BF claims are vs BoK, there is zero to be gained by BF by advancing this suit.

If BF presses on and wins, the article is taken down, and BF is seen as an oppressor of free speech and a legal bully.

If BF presses on and loses, BoK becomes insufferable*, BF is on the hook for legal fees, and still suffers the reputation losses from above.

The best move? Eat crow. Try something akin to this: "We were overzealous in defending our reputation. I still maintain that that TastyTaste's accusations are false, and I will defend my company's reputation for innovative, high-quality war-gaming accessories with every fiber of my being, but I will do it outside of the US legal system. I'm passionate about the quality my products and my customer service, as you all well know, and for that, I will never apologize."**

That way, we know he's aware of the level of backlash, we know that he's a grown-up who can recognize when he's gone too far, and the damage to BF's reputation is minimized.*** BoK will crow for a bit, but people will care less, because there's no on-going circus side show in court. That's the best move, IMHO.

*well, more insufferable.

**Not an actual quote, but it gets the point across.

***I doubt this will happen

 Balance wrote:
My personal relationship with Battlefoam is best described as 'neutral'... I use and like their product, but have had some CS issues that diminish the overall rating.

However, here's the thing: Complaining about negative reviews rarely, if ever does much positive. It often ends like this, with continued comments about the incident that can have a much wider and more negative impact than the original comment.

I agree. I had no knowledge of Romeo's douchebaggery prior to this thread and incident. Had he left well enough alone, I had planned on buying a case for my paint collection.

So thanks Romeo, for freeing up some of my money for other things.

I could be wrong, but don't court filings avoid the whole defamation issue? They are considered to have absolute privilege up here and you can post, discuss, and debate about court documents as much as you like. Outside of a publication ban that is.

You guys had your chance. A number of you held to the restrictions properly, but at least half the posts on this page alone are at least off-topic, and many are also rude.