Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Quick question for Kom. Kel... Have you ever tried to play it using your interpretation? And if so have you ever played against that person a second time? Just curious...

feth it - not worth it. People are failing to fething read the thread. I'm done.

But those purchases still have effects along the way. A unit purchased as Troops scores you points in most games. A unit selected as Fast Attack or Heavy Support scores points in some games by nature of its selection. Taking away these characteristics once they hit the tabletop changes the game.

An Ally is a unit that wouldn't be a part of your army due to not being in your codex, an internal division created in your codex (ie SM of differing Chapter Tactics) or being selected from a Codex Supplement (ie Farsight - Tau Empire alliances). If you take the rule that makes them a part of your army away mid game, they cease to be a part of your Army and in 40K, an IC that is not part of your army can't join your units.

So, if the interpretation of the rule is that the joining to a unit removes the Battle Brother rules, thus removing the restriction on boarding a transport, then the joining to a unit also removes the Battle Brother rules allowing them to be joined in the first place, forcing them to leave the unit. At that point the Battle Brothers rules return and they can rejoin said unit, but again must leave.

In short, the model is or isn't covered by the Ally rules, you can't have it both ways.

rigeld2 wrote:
feth it - not worth it. People are failing to fething read the thread. I'm done.

Nah... People are reading just fine... They come to a very different conclusion from the written words than you and Kel are coming to... Just because someone doesn't agree with your interpretation (or your take on logical conclusions) doesn't mean they ahven't read the thread... Asserting otherwise is disingenuous...

Beast wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
feth it - not worth it. People are failing to fething read the thread. I'm done.

Nah... People are reading just fine... They come to a very different conclusion from the written words than you and Kel are coming to... Just because someone doesn't agree with your interpretation (or your take on logical conclusions) doesn't mean they ahven't read the thread... Asserting otherwise is disingenuous...

No offense intended, but people saying "NO YOU CAN'T DO IT CUZ IT IS STILL BATTLE BROTHERS" was proven invalid a long time ago, and only a few people here have stated anything but this.

I think you will find quite a bit of dissent on the notion that it has been proven at all, much less long ago...

 Lord Magnus wrote:
No offense intended, but people saying "NO YOU CAN'T DO IT CUZ IT IS STILL BATTLE BROTHERS" was proven invalid a long time ago, and only a few people here have stated anything but this.

Actually proving that something is invalid and saying that you proved it are two different things.

Oh, you asked what you are missing on the last page:
1) IC-rules state that they count as part of the unit for all rules purposes, it does not state that they count as part of the same detachment which means they are still Battle Brothers.
2) Even IF you were right, you join IC's and units at the same time as you embark them on transports. So the IC would not be eligible for it.

So just wondering exactly what "for ALL rules purposes" actually means when an IC joins a Allied unit? If we literally mean ALL rules purposes, then that IC must also follow all the rules (and nothing more) for that unit. In this case we are talking about a Tac Sqd... So Any IC psycher that joins it may no longer use psychic powers since that unit doesn't have access to psychic powers. And that IC can't use his special weapon since that probably isn't an option for that Tac Sqd. And likewise, he can't have more than 1 wound since Tac Sqds don't have multi-wound models... So then, exactly what does "ALL rules purposes" actually mean? Apparently we are being at least somewhat non-literal by the very fact that we are letting him be a part of this unit yet not following "ALL" of the rules for that unit (and only the rules for that unit)... But perhaps we actually are allowed to use other rules and restrictions IN ADDITION to the rules for that unit??? For example maybe he is actually allowed to use his psychic powers and use his special weapon and maybe he actually does have some restrictions (like Battle Brothers.......) Hmmm....

Edit, spelling

Beast wrote:
So just wondering exactly what "for ALL rules purposes" actually means when an IC joins a Allied unit? If we literally mean ALL rules purposes, then that IC must also follow all the rules (and nothing more) for that unit. In this case we are talking about a Tac Sqd... So Any IC psycher that joins it may no longer use psychic powers since that unit doesn't have access to psychic powers. And that IC can't use his special weapon since that probably isn't an option for that Tac Sqd. And likewise, he can't have more than 1 wound since Tac Sqds don't have multi-wound models... So then, exactly what does "ALL rules purposes" actually mean? Apparently we are being at least somewhat non-literal by the very fact that we are letting him be a part of this unit yet not following "ALL" of the rules for that unit (and only the rules for that unit)... But perhaps we actually are allowed to use other rules and restrictions IN ADDITION to the rules for that unit??? For example maybe he is actually allowed to use his psychic powers and use his special weapon and maybe he actually does have some restrictions (like Battle Brothers.......) Hmmm....

Edit, spelling

I know, I said I was done, but this argument is so full of fail I can't help responding. I have no idea why people keep trying this straw man like it's even possibly relevant.

Different models in a unit are allowed to have different rules.
A model joining a unit does not have to conform to the same rules other models conform to. For example, the Tac Squad member with a missile launcher does not have his range, AP, STR set to that of a Bolter.
The model's type and rules do not change. He just ceases to be a unit by himself.

And the Battle Brother restriction is on a *unit*. This has been proven over and over and can't really be disputed (with actual rules). The Battle Brother restriction is not on a model.

rigeld2 wrote:

Beast wrote:
So just wondering exactly what "for ALL rules purposes" actually means when an IC joins a Allied unit? If we literally mean ALL rules purposes, then that IC must also follow all the rules (and nothing more) for that unit. In this case we are talking about a Tac Sqd... So Any IC psycher that joins it may no longer use psychic powers since that unit doesn't have access to psychic powers. And that IC can't use his special weapon since that probably isn't an option for that Tac Sqd. And likewise, he can't have more than 1 wound since Tac Sqds don't have multi-wound models... So then, exactly what does "ALL rules purposes" actually mean? Apparently we are being at least somewhat non-literal by the very fact that we are letting him be a part of this unit yet not following "ALL" of the rules for that unit (and only the rules for that unit)... But perhaps we actually are allowed to use other rules and restrictions IN ADDITION to the rules for that unit??? For example maybe he is actually allowed to use his psychic powers and use his special weapon and maybe he actually does have some restrictions (like Battle Brothers.......) Hmmm....

Edit, spelling

I know, I said I was done, but this argument is so full of fail I can't help responding. I have no idea why people keep trying this straw man like it's even possibly relevant.

Different models in a unit are allowed to have different rules.
A model joining a unit does not have to conform to the same rules other models conform to. For example, the Tac Squad member with a missile launcher does not have his range, AP, STR set to that of a Bolter.
The model's type and rules do not change. He just ceases to be a unit by himself.

And the Battle Brother restriction is on a *unit*. This has been proven over and over and can't really be disputed (with actual rules). The Battle Brother restriction is not on a model.

okay so pls provide a page and rule showing where a Tac Sqd has an option for psychic powers... If we are being as literal in the writing as you want (for ALL rules purposes) then you would be correct.. I am pointing out the fail of YOUR argument... lol.. Thx for reinforcing that... lol The wording is clearly NOT as literal as you would have. That opens the door to the reality that there are restrictions and additional rules that can apply to this "unit"...

Beast wrote:
okay so pls provide a page and rule showing where a Tac Sqd has an option for psychic powers... If we are being as literal in the writing as you want (for ALL rules purposes) then you would be correct.. I am pointing out the fail of YOUR argument... lol.. Thx for reinforcing that... lol The wording is clearly NOT as literal as you would have. That opens the door to the reality that there are restrictions and additional rules that can apply to this "unit"...

The tac squad does not have that option. That's irrelevant however as there's nothing that changes the special rule of a model that joins a unit.
Your argument has no basis in actual rules - he's a member of the unit for all rules purposes. There's no rule changing his type, etc. There is a rule that with a restriction tied to an allied *unit* (not that unit and model are not interchangeable).

Cite a rule that gives you permission to change a unit type and special rules of a model based on the unit it's in. If you cannot your argument has failed. You're not showing anything but an unwillingness to argue using actual rules.

Beast wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Beast wrote:
So just wondering exactly what "for ALL rules purposes" actually means when an IC joins a Allied unit? If we literally mean ALL rules purposes, then that IC must also follow all the rules (and nothing more) for that unit. In this case we are talking about a Tac Sqd... So Any IC psycher that joins it may no longer use psychic powers since that unit doesn't have access to psychic powers. And that IC can't use his special weapon since that probably isn't an option for that Tac Sqd. And likewise, he can't have more than 1 wound since Tac Sqds don't have multi-wound models... So then, exactly what does "ALL rules purposes" actually mean? Apparently we are being at least somewhat non-literal by the very fact that we are letting him be a part of this unit yet not following "ALL" of the rules for that unit (and only the rules for that unit)... But perhaps we actually are allowed to use other rules and restrictions IN ADDITION to the rules for that unit??? For example maybe he is actually allowed to use his psychic powers and use his special weapon and maybe he actually does have some restrictions (like Battle Brothers.......) Hmmm....

Edit, spelling

I know, I said I was done, but this argument is so full of fail I can't help responding. I have no idea why people keep trying this straw man like it's even possibly relevant.

Different models in a unit are allowed to have different rules.
A model joining a unit does not have to conform to the same rules other models conform to. For example, the Tac Squad member with a missile launcher does not have his range, AP, STR set to that of a Bolter.
The model's type and rules do not change. He just ceases to be a unit by himself.

And the Battle Brother restriction is on a *unit*. This has been proven over and over and can't really be disputed (with actual rules). The Battle Brother restriction is not on a model.

okay so pls provide a page and rule showing where a Tac Sqd has an option for psychic powers... If we are being as literal in the writing as you want (for ALL rules purposes) then you would be correct.. I am pointing out the fail of YOUR argument... lol.. Thx for reinforcing that... lol The wording is clearly NOT as literal as you would have. That opens the door to the reality that there are restrictions and additional rules that can apply to this "unit"...

Are you saying models in a unit are not allowed to use their own rules?
Instead of a Tac Squad with a Psyker, how about a Thousand Sons squad. comes with a Psyker as standard. That model can't use it's powers?

I'm sayin nothing of the kind... Just pointing out the ridiculousness of rigeld's line of thinking and the level of literalness he wants to assume in the RAW... He wants the IC to abide by ALL the rules for that unit yet wants to be able to use other rules and restrictions for the IC at the same time, but not rules and restrictions placed upon it by the BB ruleset... He wants to have his cake and eat it too...

You can't claim a level of literalness in one part of the rules and then turn around and claim you aren't using the same degree of literalness in the very next breath...

Beast wrote:
I'm sayin nothing of the kind... Just pointing out the ridiculousness of rigeld's line of thinking and the level of literalness he wants to assume in the RAW... He wants the IC to abide by ALL the rules for that unit yet wants to be able to use other rules and restrictions for the IC at the same time, but not rules and restrictions placed upon it by the BB ruleset... He wants to have his cake and eat it too...

No - I never said that. You're misrepresenting my statements. One of the reasons I shouldn't bother contributing to the thread any more.

Your argument fails, you've failed to understand my argument, and you're trolling me now. Good bye.

Nope not trolling you at all... Just pointing out the failure of your argument through its inherent inconsistency... But saying that I am trolling you might be a form of passive-aggressive trolling in and of itself... lol not sure though... (psst- that was a joke...)

Beast wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Beast wrote:
So just wondering exactly what "for ALL rules purposes" actually means when an IC joins a Allied unit? If we literally mean ALL rules purposes, then that IC must also follow all the rules (and nothing more) for that unit. In this case we are talking about a Tac Sqd... So Any IC psycher that joins it may no longer use psychic powers since that unit doesn't have access to psychic powers. And that IC can't use his special weapon since that probably isn't an option for that Tac Sqd. And likewise, he can't have more than 1 wound since Tac Sqds don't have multi-wound models... So then, exactly what does "ALL rules purposes" actually mean? Apparently we are being at least somewhat non-literal by the very fact that we are letting him be a part of this unit yet not following "ALL" of the rules for that unit (and only the rules for that unit)... But perhaps we actually are allowed to use other rules and restrictions IN ADDITION to the rules for that unit??? For example maybe he is actually allowed to use his psychic powers and use his special weapon and maybe he actually does have some restrictions (like Battle Brothers.......) Hmmm....

Edit, spelling

I know, I said I was done, but this argument is so full of fail I can't help responding. I have no idea why people keep trying this straw man like it's even possibly relevant.

Different models in a unit are allowed to have different rules.
A model joining a unit does not have to conform to the same rules other models conform to. For example, the Tac Squad member with a missile launcher does not have his range, AP, STR set to that of a Bolter.
The model's type and rules do not change. He just ceases to be a unit by himself.

And the Battle Brother restriction is on a *unit*. This has been proven over and over and can't really be disputed (with actual rules). The Battle Brother restriction is not on a model.

okay so pls provide a page and rule showing where a Tac Sqd has an option for psychic powers... If we are being as literal in the writing as you want (for ALL rules purposes) then you would be correct.. I am pointing out the fail of YOUR argument... lol.. Thx for reinforcing that... lol The wording is clearly NOT as literal as you would have. That opens the door to the reality that there are restrictions and additional rules that can apply to this "unit"...

Did you ignore my post or are you claiming that adding an IC(Same codex, same detatchment) to a Space Marine tactical squad allow me to retroactively assign 1 model a Heavy weapon?

ICS ALWAYS RETAIN THEIR OWN STATS, SPECIAL RULES, AND WARGEAR this is not hard to understand and any claims otherwise is either willful misinterpretation, or a sign that you should not be in YMDC at all.

rigeld2 wrote:
That's irrelevant however as there's nothing that changes the special rule of a model that joins a unit.

So then it is no longer "ALL rules purposes" is it??? You continue to undermine your own line of reasoning...

(sorry for the late quote, but just noticed this additional inherent incosistency...)

Beast wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
That's irrelevant however as there's nothing that changes the special rule of a model that joins a unit.

So then it is no longer "ALL rules purposes" is it??? You continue to undermine your own line of reasoning...

(sorry for the late quote, but just noticed this additional inherent incosistency...)

It absolutely is all rules purposes. Is there a rule that says all members of a unit must have the same special rules? Please cite one.
Is there a rule giving you permission to change special rules during a game? Please cite one.

Or are you continuing to misrepresent my argument? You've obviously failed to actually understand it if you're harping on this unarguable point.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:


Did you ignore my post or are you claiming that adding an IC(Same codex, same detatchment) to a Space Marine tactical squad allow me to retroactively assign 1 model a Heavy weapon?

ICS ALWAYS RETAIN THEIR OWN STATS, SPECIAL RULES, AND WARGEAR this is not hard to understand and any claims otherwise is either willful misinterpretation, or a sign that you should not be in YMDC at all.

Same comment to you Kel... If we take your line of reasoning, then logically the IC would be disallowed from using his own rules because he is a part of the "unit" "for ALL rules purposes" isn't he... That then takes us to the reality that there ARE additional rules and restrictions we must use (these would allow the IC to use his own rules and restrictions after joining the unit)... Therefore, if we are allowing additional rules and restrictions beyond just those of the unit itself, then you have to allow all of the rules and restrictions in the BRB... And the BB rules are included in that...

Edit spelling and grammar...

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry boys but you can't ahve your cake and eat it too... Nobody has ever managed it so to keep trying is folly... lol...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You guys are obviously not understanding the failure of your line of reasoning... So I'll leave you to your games... Have fun with them... The other 85% of the people out here will play "our way" with "ALL" of the rules... lol Cheers and no hard feelings...

Beast wrote:
If we take your line of reasoning, then logically the IC would be disallowed from using his own rules because they are a part of the "unit" "for ALL rules purposes" are they...

A statement which you've completely failed to supply rules support for. Please stop trolling and follow the tenets of YMDC.

rigeld2 wrote:

Beast wrote:
If we take your line of reasoning, then logically the IC would be disallowed from using his own rules because they are a part of the "unit" "for ALL rules purposes" are they...

A statement which you've completely failed to supply rules support for. Please stop trolling and follow the tenets of YMDC.

Repeatedly claiming someone is trolling you when they are just arguing against your POV is a form of trolling rigeld... Just so you know....

Beast wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Beast wrote:
If we take your line of reasoning, then logically the IC would be disallowed from using his own rules because they are a part of the "unit" "for ALL rules purposes" are they...

A statement which you've completely failed to supply rules support for. Please stop trolling and follow the tenets of YMDC.

Repeatedly claiming someone is trolling you when they are just arguing against your POV is a form of trolling rigeld... Just so you know....

At this point you have two options:

1) Provide rules support for your assertions.
2) Fail to provide rules support and instead keep saying "ALL rules purposes" "lol", etc. like it helps your argument. If you pick this one you're failing to contribute and choosing to do nothing but "poke" other people. That's pretty much the definition of trolling.

rigeld2 wrote:

Beast wrote:
If we take your line of reasoning, then logically the IC would be disallowed from using his own rules because they are a part of the "unit" "for ALL rules purposes" are they...

A statement which you've completely failed to supply rules support for. Please stop trolling and follow the tenets of YMDC.

I have no need to provide a rule for this because it wasn't my assertion, it was pointing out the fallacy of yours....

Beast wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:


Did you ignore my post or are you claiming that adding an IC(Same codex, same detatchment) to a Space Marine tactical squad allow me to retroactively assign 1 model a Heavy weapon?

ICS ALWAYS RETAIN THEIR OWN STATS, SPECIAL RULES, AND WARGEAR this is not hard to understand and any claims otherwise is either willful misinterpretation, or a sign that you should not be in YMDC at all.

Same comment to you Kel... If we take your line of reasoning, then logically the IC would be disallowed from using his own rules because he is a part of the "unit" "for ALL rules purposes" isn't he... That then takes us to the reality that there ARE additional rules and restrictions we must use (these would allow the IC to use his own rules and restrictions after joining the unit)... Therefore, if we are allowing additional rules and restrictions beyond just those of the unit itself, then you have to allow all of the rules and restrictions in the BRB... And the BB rules are included in that...

Edit spelling and grammar...

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry boys but you can't ahve your cake and eat it too... Nobody has ever managed it so to keep trying is folly... lol...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You guys are obviously not understanding the failure of your line of reasoning... So I'll leave you to your games... Have fun with them... The other 85% of the people out here will play "our way" with "ALL" of the rules... lol Cheers and no hard feelings...

Gotcha; you are of the willfully negligent camp.

I bolded and Capped my statement. If you cannot grasp the rules from such a blatant statement then you are also in the "Shouldn't be in YMDC" camp as well.

I never said the IC(BB or otherwise) Gains the rules of the models in the unit(although certain ICs joining Certain squads would be fricken awesome were this the case). Special rules, stas, and wargear in a unit entry only apply to the specified models.

rigeld2 wrote:

Beast wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Beast wrote:
If we take your line of reasoning, then logically the IC would be disallowed from using his own rules because they are a part of the "unit" "for ALL rules purposes" are they...

A statement which you've completely failed to supply rules support for. Please stop trolling and follow the tenets of YMDC.

Repeatedly claiming someone is trolling you when they are just arguing against your POV is a form of trolling rigeld... Just so you know....

At this point you have two options:

1) Provide rules support for your assertions.
2) Fail to provide rules support and instead keep saying "ALL rules purposes" "lol", etc. like it helps your argument. If you pick this one you're failing to contribute and choosing to do nothing but "poke" other people. That's pretty much the definition of trolling.

I have many more options that just the two you lsited here. The relevant rules have been posted ad naseum, so repeatedly reposting them is annoying to everyone... We all know what "for ALL rules purposes" refers to here... and lol is a term used to denote humor and levity in case you didn't know that.... So maybe you should try to be less emotional about this and more open to what other people are trying to tell you about your argument...??? So quit falsely accusing me of trolling you when I have repeatedly said I'm not and when my posts are aimed at your argument and not at your person...

Really done this time, no matter who trolls me with stupid gak.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

Gotcha; you are of the willfully negligent camp.

I bolded and Capped my statement. If you cannot grasp the rules from such a blatant statement then you are also in the "Shouldn't be in YMDC" camp as well.

I never said the IC(BB or otherwise) Gains the rules of the models in the unit(although certain ICs joining Certain squads would be fricken awesome were this the case). Special rules, stas, and wargear in a unit entry only apply to the specified models.

Saying I am "willfully negligent" doesn't prove anything about your argument. It is merely inflamatory and I think you are a better debater than that Kel... Your posts here and in the original thread show that you want the IC to retain all of the benefits (rules) that he normally follows when he would join a unit from his allied detachment, but none of the restrictions... Sorry but most people (86% now...) see through your inherently inconsistent application of the rules... I can see how you might twist a loose reading of the rules to become what you desire, but the VAST majority of us out here happen to see the RAW as well... RAW....

But like I told rigeld, have fun (cuz that's what all this is about) and enjoy your games. I have no hard feelings after debating you over this... I hope you feel the same...

Edit for continued spelling silliness

Basically, the IC either becomes a part of the unit for all rules purposes or it does not. It either keeps its own rules (including Battle Brother which specifies no bording allied transports) or it loses its rules (including Battle Brother which is the rule that allows the model to join the unit in the first place). You can't pick and choose which rules it keeps and which it loseses.

So, either the IC remains a Battle Brother and can not board an Allied Transport or it loses Battle Brother and is no longer a valid member of the unit.

Or, you can stop and think about what is meant by being a member of a unit for all rules purposes. In 6th Edition there is a significant emphasis on individual models having individual rules within units but still needing to follow restrictions based on the unit. For example, units can have different movement rates, but still move at the speed of the slowest member. Likewise I can attach a model in terminator armour to a squad of Tactical Marines and the Tactical Marines could not Sweeping Advance or board a Rhino.

So based on precedent it is logical to determine that being a member of the unit for all rules purposes means that the IC still has all of its rules (including Battle Brother and its transport restrictions) but is subject to the rules of being a member of a unit with the other models (ie things like moving in coherrancy, targeting the same unit as the other models in the unit, not being targeted seperately from the unit and unit wound allocation) as modified by any individual rules held by the unit or the model.

The argument that the IC loses some of its rules (ie Battle Brother) by joining the unit goes against the precedent laid out in the system and so is clearly an incorrect interpretation of the phrasing of the statement about ICs becoming a member of the unit for all rules purposes.

As I and others have pointed out above, if joining the unit does remove rules, then it needs to remove them all as per the phrasing. Specific to this argument, as the BB rules are the ones that allow models chosen from an Allied Detachment to become members of the units of another detachment, then removing the rule would make the IC Ineligible to be a part of that unit.

So, the logical conclusion that an allied IC can board the transport of his allies just because he is joined to a squad is actually not that logical.

Obviously sergeants don't actually get to use that higher leadership - they're a member of a Tac Squad for all rules purposes, not a Tactical Sergeant Squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jefffar wrote:
Basically, the IC either becomes a part of the unit for all rules purposes or it does not. It either keeps its own rules (including Battle Brother which specifies no bording allied transports) or it loses its rules (including Battle Brother which is the rule that allows the model to join the unit in the first place). You can't pick and choose which rules it keeps and which it loseses.

I'm not. Jesus tapdancing Christ - how about trying to understand the argument?!

What is the BB restriction on - a model or a unit? Answer that question before posting anything else please.

Beast wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

Gotcha; you are of the willfully negligent camp.

I bolded and Capped my statement. If you cannot grasp the rules from such a blatant statement then you are also in the "Shouldn't be in YMDC" camp as well.

I never said the IC(BB or otherwise) Gains the rules of the models in the unit(although certain ICs joining Certain squads would be fricken awesome were this the case). Special rules, stas, and wargear in a unit entry only apply to the specified models.

Saying I am "willfully negligent" doesn't prove anything about your argument. It is merely inflamatory and I think you are a better debater than that Kel... Your posts here and in the original thread show that you want the IC to retain all of the benefits (rules) that he normally follows when he would join a unit from his allied detachment, but none of the restrictions... Sorry but most people (86% now...) see through your inherently inconsistent application of the rules... I can see how you might twist a loose reading of the rules to become what you desire, but the VAST majority of us out here happen to see the RAW as well... RAW....

But like I told rigeld, have fun (cuz that's what all this is about) and enjoy your games. I have no hard feelings after debating you over this... I hope you feel the same...

Edit for continued spelling silliness

So your position is that an Ethereal who joins a FW squad no longer has the IC, Invocation of the Elements, Failure is not an option, or stubborn rules; but instead has the supporting fire rule? He also no longer has the wargear purchased for him, but instead has Combat armour, Pulse rifle and Photon grenades right? Finally; what are his stats? WS2, BS3, S3, T3, W1, I2, A1, or 2? LD7, or 8? Sv 4+?