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Razerous wrote:
It's only a small point but; if you can somehow hide your termagaunts from a tervigon, if the Tervigon goes pop, it won't be able to allocate to terms out of LOS.

Carnifexes getting fleet is pretty huge.

I'm puzzled that no-one tends to point out that the primaris power, as I understand it, on the tervy, can be Dominion. So you can keep termagants in synapse and out of range of the self-destruct.

 Therion wrote:
I would just like to see a Tyranid list idea in this thread that can make it a competitive game vs Tau. Many of the lists here seem to be playing right into the Tau's hands and that doesn't like very good army building since you know the Tau are out there.

This is an all-comer list I had thought up that I think will work well if you don't play on a kitchen table. Bastion with Venomthrope will not die easily to Tau, who are pretty bad at anti-AV14. 3 Flyrants can apply pressure while a forward Bastion gives them Venomthrope shrouding plus area terrain for a 3++ cover. Sure Tau can ignore cover sometimes, but not enough to take down everything. Tyrannofex will murder troops and be tough to kill, as will Biovores. Leaper targets an Ethereal or Farseer for the lulz. Basically all troops will reserve, but two will outflank. Mawloc will pop up and kill Broadsides/crisis/Firewarriors as needed, maybe even home in on the Leaper.

anyone? trying to figure out how to get spores to str10 like the book says they can max out at.. but i cant figure that out yet, best i see is 9.

 stormoffires wrote:
anyone? trying to figure out how to get spores to str10 like the book says they can max out at.. but i cant figure that out yet, best i see is 9.

Maybe is there is another cluster in proximity, it increases the strength even futher? Like a chain reaction.

 jy2 wrote:

Tactical_Genius wrote:
Has no-one mentioned escalation yet???

Let's take it one step at a time.

But I like running...

 jifel wrote:
2k points DFOC

Could you design a 1.85K or 1.75K version of it, since very few tournaments or even casual games are played with 2K DFOC?

Something I'm sure most will dismiss, but I like the concept of an Aegis Line (I believe Nids can purchase that much...unless I'm wrong) to put Momma, Exocrines and Biovores behind to give a 2+ cover save. From a Venomthrope(s), no less, hiding behind all those big models and out of LoS.

The list I want to run is 5x FMCs at 1850, just begin them behind the Aegis for a 2+ cover save for 1st turn protection. Maybe keep them there, doubt it given I want them to be Swooping. Nonetheless, keep a Venomthrope there to protect Momma, babies, Exocrines and Biovores.

Yeah, the most prominent lists ignore cover, but that's typically from Broadside weapons for Tau or Markerlights. Which I think would be more worried about 3x Harpies and 2x Flyrants. My 1850 has A LOT of Large Blasts in it. Wanna try it out to see how it goes.

 stormoffires wrote:
anyone? trying to figure out how to get spores to str10 like the book says they can max out at.. but i cant figure that out yet, best i see is 9.

I'd put my money on them just covering their butts in case there is some weird future rule on another unit that would increase the strength of the blast somehow. It's just to ensure that in the future, nothing breaks it so that it can somehow get greater than S10.

 Maelstrom808 wrote:

 stormoffires wrote:
anyone? trying to figure out how to get spores to str10 like the book says they can max out at.. but i cant figure that out yet, best i see is 9.

I'd put my money on them just covering their butts in case there is some weird future rule on another unit that would increase the strength of the blast somehow. It's just to ensure that in the future, nothing breaks it so that it can somehow get greater than S10.

That is more likely. Always good to have a cause to clarify things.

CleverAntics wrote:
Something I'm sure most will dismiss, but I like the concept of an Aegis Line (I believe Nids can purchase that much...unless I'm wrong) to put Momma, Exocrines and Biovores behind to give a 2+ cover save. From a Venomthrope(s), no less, hiding behind all those big models and out of LoS.

The list I want to run is 5x FMCs at 1850, just begin them behind the Aegis for a 2+ cover save for 1st turn protection. Maybe keep them there, doubt it given I want them to be Swooping. Nonetheless, keep a Venomthrope there to protect Momma, babies, Exocrines and Biovores.

Yeah, the most prominent lists ignore cover, but that's typically from Broadside weapons for Tau or Markerlights. Which I think would be more worried about 3x Harpies and 2x Flyrants. My 1850 has A LOT of Large Blasts in it. Wanna try it out to see how it goes.

nids atm can now take all fortifications.. making my stronghold assault awesome!

Bottom line is new nids might handle the meta poorly. I cant wait to play FMC daemons or shooty taudar against them to test.
I imagine as far as friendly games and non spam lists go nids will do alright although i feel like they cant even do that well inCC compared to some armies. GK force weapons will destroy fexs and most stuff (tyrants dont have EW?) and GUO/nurgle deamons balesword or anything instant death will hurt. Gaunts without synapse are like killing well bugs.

 Therion wrote:
I would just like to see a Tyranid list idea in this thread that can make it a competitive game vs Tau. Many of the lists here seem to be playing right into the Tau's hands and that doesn't like very good army building since you know the Tau are out there.

Post the Tau list first. It's easy for you to tear apart a bug list with everything in the tau codex, but they can't take everything so post the Tau list first.

Make sure you can have a way for the Riptides to stay upright and not pinned by the horror psychic power.

2 Dakka Flyrants

Tervigon

30 Termagaunts

NINE CARNIFEXES

Around 1850

Doesn't sound much on paper, but just picture in your head 12 giant MCs.

herpguy wrote:
2 Dakka Flyrants

Tervigon

30 Termagaunts

NINE CARNIFEXES

Around 1850

Doesn't sound much on paper, but just picture in your head 12 giant MCs.

lol this is what i was thinking... maybe add an old Eye one to get another fex :-p

 Therion wrote:

 jifel wrote:
2k points DFOC

Could you design a 1.85K or 1.75K version of it, since very few tournaments or even casual games are played with 2K DFOC?

Hm, 2000 is quite popular here. I'll design a new one, but what are your thoughts on said list? I think it can at least hold its own in most cases.

1850



Same thing. Central Bastion with venomthrope giving 3+ cover to units nearby with area terrain. Crone gets a 2++ while behind bastion, Tyrannofex advance and acid things to death while central army advances in blob, Flyrants play havoc. Priority on eliminating Pathfinders/marker drones with Flyrants/Biovores, then enjoy cover saves. Crone plays anti-vehicle and flyer.

I personally would never run 9 carnifexes. There's simply too much to do with other slots, especially when I can give a Trygon Prime the new sword bio-artefact.

7 S6 AP2 attacks is great. Make them S7 AP2 at Int 7 is amazing.

CleverAntics wrote:
Something I'm sure most will dismiss, but I like the concept of an Aegis Line (I believe Nids can purchase that much...unless I'm wrong) to put Momma, Exocrines and Biovores behind to give a 2+ cover save. From a Venomthrope(s), no less, hiding behind all those big models and out of LoS.

The list I want to run is 5x FMCs at 1850, just begin them behind the Aegis for a 2+ cover save for 1st turn protection. Maybe keep them there, doubt it given I want them to be Swooping. Nonetheless, keep a Venomthrope there to protect Momma, babies, Exocrines and Biovores.

Yeah, the most prominent lists ignore cover, but that's typically from Broadside weapons for Tau or Markerlights. Which I think would be more worried about 3x Harpies and 2x Flyrants. My 1850 has A LOT of Large Blasts in it. Wanna try it out to see how it goes.

I like the idea of the ADL, I have not got the defence line out for checking cover options against most units yet though, I had assumed the Exo might be too large and was thinking more about Warriors, with larger units behind the Warriors. ADL is only 50 points, doesn't have to perform miracles to be worth it. However, fluffing out synapse from other fortifications may be better for a all round list.

I know the Aegis won't provide enough cover for any of the FMCs though. But if your deploying 2nd I've never had a problem finding enough natural terrain cover.

I think my first list-for-fun will be compiled of many Hormagaunts.
They will do one of the following 2 things;
Get the charge before all synapse dies and omnom.
Fail to get the charge, eat themselves.

Sometimes its a good feeling playing all or nothing.

Therion wrote:

 LValx wrote:
New Nid codex is pretty bad....

That being said, I think you can build a list that makes it a relatively functional army. I think if you build around Flyrants/Crones/Mawlocs you can create a list that will give you the ability to win missions fairly easily. Those units are all fantastic at hunting troops and all 3 can play the denial game vs things like Taudar. FMC daemons do well vs Tau largely because they play a very cagey/tactical game. They dont beat you by tabling you, they win by contesting/killing troops. I believe Nids have the capability to do that well.

The Crone is such a disfunctional unit though considering it's fragility and the fact it's a massive model on a flyer base that it can't get down from, despite actually not being a flyer. It's never going to hide from anything. It's painfully apparent the rules have changed during playtesting/planning. The model is for a flyer but Cruddy & Co just screwed it all up. Come on, 4 missiles, a flamer weapon and a vector strike, of which it can select to do two per turn, all the while being way too big and visible to justify the T5 + SV4 + groundable combo of doom. It's frankly quite ridiculous. The only thing more ridiculous is the collective group of admirable Tyranid players in this thread who will still try to make it work.

I'm glad that someone else sees that the new Tyranid fliers are pretty bad. I'm not spending ~£35 and ~150 points on something that'll die to a Quad Gun as soon as it comes in.

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:

Razerous wrote:
It's only a small point but; if you can somehow hide your termagaunts from a tervigon, if the Tervigon goes pop, it won't be able to allocate to terms out of LOS.

Carnifexes getting fleet is pretty huge.

I'm puzzled that no-one tends to point out that the primaris power, as I understand it, on the tervy, can be Dominion. So you can keep termagants in synapse and out of range of the self-destruct.

Yeah, this is very useful. I'd always default to Dominion, unless I rolled Catalyst. Catalyst is my new favourite thing.

McNinja wrote:I personally would never run 9 carnifexes. There's simply too much to do with other slots, especially when I can give a Trygon Prime the new sword bio-artefact.

7 S6 AP2 attacks is great. Make them S7 AP2 at Int 7 is amazing.

You're paying 45 points for that though. And I can get +1S on the charge with Adrenal Glands for 15pts. So in a way you're paying 30 points for +3 Initiative, with no assault grenades. That's really not worth it. The bio-sword is cool, but only worth it on a Prime. I think the Miasma Cannon has use on a Trygon Prime though. It can pop up next to gunlines pretty safely and unleash a Poisoned (2+) template in addition to its normal shooting attack.

Deshkar wrote:
Biggest disappointment: Mawlocs scattering and becoming a sitting duck. However, if either of them had hit, it would have been able to nearly wipe an entire squad of broadsides, so -___-???. I am sorely tempted to swap over to dual Exocrines, for more board presence and reliable AP2 fire options.

Yup, my experience as well. It's cheap but doesn't deliver a whole lot on average.

Deshkar wrote:
2)Tyranid powers are pretty decent, though it relies on some finesse on when to use them. Dominion allowed me to screw up his Farseer's spells.

It doesn't work the way you seem to think it works. Dominion only extends synapse range, not SotW, those are two different things. SotW is always 12"

One small comment regarding the changes to Biovores that I haven't seen mentioned, and I don't think is super-obvious so it could be easily missed.

Spore Mines no longer appear to detonate automatically when shot or if you move within a certain distance of an enemy model. Looking through the rules the only way I see to detonate a Spore Mine is to Assault with it, at which point it explodes at I10.

On the plus side, there does appear to be a loophole that will allow you to Assault with your Spore Mines the same turn on which they are shot, and they are certain to be within charge distance of whatever you've shot them at. Even with half-charge distance you've got a very high probability of succeeding here.

On the minus side, there's a decent chance that your Spore Mines will be destroyed in Overwatch, and even if they are 1" away from the enemy, there will be no explosion if the enemy kills them this way.

I like the idea of the ADL, I have not got the defence line out for checking cover options against most units yet though, I had assumed the Exo might be too large and was thinking more about Warriors, with larger units behind the Warriors. ADL is only 50 points, doesn't have to perform miracles to be worth it. However, fluffing out synapse from other fortifications may be better for a all round list.

I know the Aegis won't provide enough cover for any of the FMCs though. But if your deploying 2nd I've never had a problem finding enough natural terrain cover.

I think my first list-for-fun will be compiled of many Hormagaunts.
They will do one of the following 2 things;
Get the charge before all synapse dies and omnom.
Fail to get the charge, eat themselves.

Sometimes its a good feeling playing all or nothing.

Hmm. So far as the FMCs go, can't you just plop down area terrain behind the Defense Line and claim the cover save of the Defense Line? Defense Line is a 4+, which you take the better save of two sources of saves. Being area terrain, you're in cover behind the Defense Line, as according to its description, to get its 4+ cover save. Though...I'm pretty sure I'm getting far too technical here and looking for a loophole. Grasping at straws, I'm pretty sure. Nonetheless, it'd be a 3+ save at worst. Just the way it's worded sounds like you need only to be behind the Defense Line to get it's 4+ save. Probably wrong, though.

The Haruspex and Exocrine is smaller than they look; unless you have a model yourself. Pretty sure 25% would be covered, so that shouldn't be a problem. Probably can cover the Flyrants, and the rest isn't a problem.

I'm glad that someone else sees that the new Tyranid fliers are pretty bad. I'm not spending ~£35 and ~150 points on something that'll die to a Quad Gun as soon as it comes in.

Don't quite understand this. Harpies/Crones have 5 Wounds, not 4. That, and there's an easy source for a 3+/2+ cover save besides the point.

Shrubs wrote:

Deshkar wrote:
Biggest disappointment: Mawlocs scattering and becoming a sitting duck. However, if either of them had hit, it would have been able to nearly wipe an entire squad of broadsides, so -___-???. I am sorely tempted to swap over to dual Exocrines, for more board presence and reliable AP2 fire options.

Yup, my experience as well. It's cheap but doesn't deliver a whole lot on average.

I don't think Mawlocs are going to be worth it unless you bring Deathleaper or Lictors to eliminate the scatter. They're too unreliable otherwise.

The Shadow wrote:
I'm glad that someone else sees that the new Tyranid fliers are pretty bad. I'm not spending ~£35 and ~150 points on something that'll die to a Quad Gun as soon as it comes in.

Except it won't. A single quad gun has a 0% chance of killing a Crone or Harpy in one turn, thanks to W5. What other flier can say that? That being said, a single quad gun will take one out in two turns for sure.

DarthDiggler wrote:

 Therion wrote:
I would just like to see a Tyranid list idea in this thread that can make it a competitive game vs Tau. Many of the lists here seem to be playing right into the Tau's hands and that doesn't like very good army building since you know the Tau are out there.

Post the Tau list first. It's easy for you to tear apart a bug list with everything in the tau codex, but they can't take everything so post the Tau list first.

Make sure you can have a way for the Riptides to stay upright and not pinned by the horror psychic power.

Well here's my standard TAC TauTau. Yeah, it doesn't give a hoot about Horror. Talisman of Arthas Moloch is cool like that. Yeah, it'll kill 2 Flyrants and more in a single phase. Already discussed with jy2 and some others in private messages, and basically the Nid gameplan has to be hoping to go second and then hiding behind skyscraper size buildings all game.

-Farsight
-O'Vesa
-Riptide, HBC, EC Pilot, EWO
-Riptide, HBC, ToAM, EWO, Target Lock
-3 Crisis Battlesuits, Missile Pods, Bonding
-1 Crisis Battlesuit, Missile Pod, Bonding
-Sky Ray Gunship, Blacksun Filter
-Sky Ray Gunship, Blacksun Filter
-Sky Ray Gunship, Blacksun Filter
-Commander, CCN, PEN, MSS, VRT, OG
-Riptide, IA, EWO
-10 Kroot
-10 Kroot

Total: 1850

Nate668 wrote:


Except it won't. A single quad gun has a 0% chance of killing a Crone or Harpy in one turn, thanks to W5. What other flier can say that? That being said, a single quad gun will take one out in two turns for sure.

Actually it's not 0% as you are forgetting the 1/3 chance to be grounded. So if the quad gun gets one more wound than average, and the flyer fails it's grounding test, that S9 hit is probably gonna kill it.

 Maelstrom808 wrote:

Nate668 wrote:


Except it won't. A single quad gun has a 0% chance of killing a Crone or Harpy in one turn, thanks to W5. What other flier can say that? That being said, a single quad gun will take one out in two turns for sure.

Actually it's not 0% as you are forgetting the 1/3 chance to be grounded. So if the quad gun gets one more wound than average, and the flyer fails it's grounding test, that S9 hit is probably gonna kill it.

Ah, you're totally right. My mistake.

 Therion wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:

 Therion wrote:
I would just like to see a Tyranid list idea in this thread that can make it a competitive game vs Tau. Many of the lists here seem to be playing right into the Tau's hands and that doesn't like very good army building since you know the Tau are out there.

Post the Tau list first. It's easy for you to tear apart a bug list with everything in the tau codex, but they can't take everything so post the Tau list first.

Make sure you can have a way for the Riptides to stay upright and not pinned by the horror psychic power.

Well here's my standard TAC TauTau. Yeah, it doesn't give a hoot about Horror. Yeah, it'll kill 2 Flyrants and more in a single phase. Already discussed with jy2 and some others in private messages, and basically the Nid gameplan has to be hiding behind skyscraper size buildings all game.

-Farsight
-O'Vesa
-Riptide, HBC, EC Pilot, EWO
-Riptide, HBC, ToAM, EWO, Target Lock
-3 Crisis Battlesuits, Missile Pods, Bonding
-1 Crisis Battlesuit, Missile Pod, Bonding
-Sky Ray Gunship, Blacksun Filter
-Sky Ray Gunship, Blacksun Filter
-Sky Ray Gunship, Blacksun Filter
-Commander, CCN, PEN, MSS, VRT, OG
-Riptide, IA, EWO
-10 Kroot
-10 Kroot

Total: 1850

What do you do when your troops are dead? And how does this NOT care about the Horror? Ovesa star can get pinned and then you don't have markers to boost their BS. Yes I understand you have the Talisman, but that is just roll 4d6 for DtW and pick the highest? On a 6+ still it's not at all impossible to fail that. Tyranids with Biovores and Flyrants will be able to take out your troops without too much difficulty.

Nate668 wrote:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:

Nate668 wrote:


Except it won't. A single quad gun has a 0% chance of killing a Crone or Harpy in one turn, thanks to W5. What other flier can say that? That being said, a single quad gun will take one out in two turns for sure.

Actually it's not 0% as you are forgetting the 1/3 chance to be grounded. So if the quad gun gets one more wound than average, and the flyer fails it's grounding test, that S9 hit is probably gonna kill it.

Ah, you're totally right. My mistake.

It's all good. It's still not all doom and gloom as there are a few ways to get a better chance of gettuing a few through to do nasty things to your opponent if you have plenty of FMCs. If they have a ton of solid anti-air though, you're probably in trouble.

What do you do when your troops are dead? And how does this NOT care about the Horror? Ovesa star can get pinned and then you don't have markers to boost their BS. Yes I understand you have the Talisman, but that is just roll 4d6 for DtW and pick the highest? On a 6+ still it's not at all impossible to fail that. Tyranids with Biovores and Flyrants will be able to take out your troops without too much difficulty.

This isn't a Tau tactics thread. The troops don't die since you just reserve them and play passive. That's pretty standard 40K and shouldn't be discussed here. What the heck are troops units like that going to do anyway?

O'vesastar has LD10 and 4D6 to deny. They can also opt for stubborn whenever necessary. Every unit within 12" of the Talisman model has 4D6 to deny. It doesn't get any better than that in this game. O'vesastar also doesn't necessarily need any markerlight support at all (automatically twin-linked guns that ignore cover and monster/tank hunt), so the 6 networked lights are used for other stuff in many cases. Once a Nid sticks his head out it's dead. What I posted is a pretty standard pattern GT winner Tau list and one of the strongest lists in the game, so it's probably not all that fair to compare that to Tyranids, but as you can see I only asked for people to post alternative ideas for dealing with Tau than 2 Flyrants and some Crones. It's not going to work. DarthDiggler then asked for my list. It actually lacks the 2 Kroot Hounds in it, one for each Kroot unit, but there's 2 needless EWOs in there so that's that.

herpguy wrote:
2 Dakka Flyrants

Tervigon

30 Termagaunts

NINE CARNIFEXES

Around 1850

Doesn't sound much on paper, but just picture in your head 12 giant MCs.

Too slow if you ask me. First, the enemy will ground your Flyrants if they come too close. Then a mobile army like Eldar or Necrons will pick your units at leisure.

 Therion wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:

 Therion wrote:
I would just like to see a Tyranid list idea in this thread that can make it a competitive game vs Tau. Many of the lists here seem to be playing right into the Tau's hands and that doesn't like very good army building since you know the Tau are out there.

Post the Tau list first. It's easy for you to tear apart a bug list with everything in the tau codex, but they can't take everything so post the Tau list first.

Make sure you can have a way for the Riptides to stay upright and not pinned by the horror psychic power.

Well here's my standard TAC TauTau. Yeah, it doesn't give a hoot about Horror. Talisman of Arthas Moloch is cool like that. Yeah, it'll kill 2 Flyrants and more in a single phase. Already discussed with jy2 and some others in private messages, and basically the Nid gameplan has to be hoping to go second and then hiding behind skyscraper size buildings all game.

-Farsight
-O'Vesa
-Riptide, HBC, EC Pilot, EWO
-Riptide, HBC, ToAM, EWO, Target Lock
-3 Crisis Battlesuits, Missile Pods, Bonding
-1 Crisis Battlesuit, Missile Pod, Bonding
-Sky Ray Gunship, Blacksun Filter
-Sky Ray Gunship, Blacksun Filter
-Sky Ray Gunship, Blacksun Filter
-Commander, CCN, PEN, MSS, VRT, OG
-Riptide, IA, EWO
-10 Kroot
-10 Kroot

Total: 1850

Awesome list. Jy2 plays on the West coast. I play in the Midwest. Home of Adepticon. Each region tends to have slightly different play styles dictated by types of missions we play. Here in the Midwest we are already seeing TO's not allowing armies to ally with their parent codex. It's nothing but a FOC manipulation.

That being said your troops are the weakness. I'd kill them and tie the game at worst. 20 Kroot and 4 suits?

Tyranid Prime, boneswords
Tyranid Prime, boneswords
2 Zopes
2 Zopes
2 Zopes
30 Termagants, poison
30 Termagants, poison
25 Hormagants, poison
25 Hormagants, poison
25 Hormagants, poison
30 Gargoyles, poison, adrenal

I'll put a Prime with each termagant squad and have them spread mid to backfield on each edge of the board to hunt down outflanking Kroot. This way my warlord is safe and I should have 2 sources of synapse the whole game. The Gargoyles will be your first target because they can engage everything including vehicles. The 75 Hoppies will be just behind. Your buff commander can only save one thing with his hit and run. The other Riptides will die to massed poison attacks and the surviving Hoppies and Gargoyles will hunt down the 4 remaining Crisis Suits to prevent any objective grabbing. I figure you'll have 2 turns of shooting if you go first and only one if the Bugs go first. The best part about this list is that in a timed tourney round it will be very hard to complete 5 turns which deny you more turns to shoot the horde.

Holy cow I almost forgot about the 6 Zopes. I'm sure the Skyrays will want to shoot them. They will use all their missiles and be useless for the rest of the fight. Maybe you kill all 6 and maybe you don't. All depends on saves. I figure you might have 1 turn to shoot them before the fast moving little bugs hit the lines.

4 Riptides are nice and combining them with Skyrays means you can really handle the armor 3+ monsters populating the scene. But you wil have trouble against the horde.

What do you think. Am I out of my mind or does it have a chance? 50/50 is all I need and pray we don't play the Relic mission.