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Hollismason wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
This and this


When the power is resolved, the new unit then arrives via Deep Strike, within the power’s maximum range; the new unit is under your control and is treated as having arrived from Reserves for all rules purposes.

Happen before

This

When the power is resolved, the new unit then arrives via Deep Strike, within the power’s maximum range; the new unit is under your control and is treated as having arrived from Reserves for all rules purposes.

Yes. So when you get to the Deep Strike part, the unit is already treated as having arrived from Reserve. It is not, at that point, arriving from reserve. It already did. You just haven't put them on the table yet.

I've literally laid this out like 3 times now with direct references and examples.

Yeah. weird, right? It's almost starting to seem like people disagree with you.

It doesn't need to say that at all because stating it deepstrikes, includes all of the special rules from arriving from reserve.

Not at all. If they hadn't included that bit, people would be arguing that it shouldn't be treated as having arrived from reserve, because it was never in reserve to begin with. It just used the Deep Strike rules to get onto the table.'

And I know people would be arguing that, because we had that exact argument on numerous occasions over Gate of Infinity in previous editions.

I can't be any clearer that having arrived from is not a past tense statement. I've listed the grammatical rules. if you just simply refuse to acknowledge that it arrives from reserve before it deepstrikes , then I don't know what to tell you.

The 2nd part O_o , you simply didn't answer my question.

So now are you saying that Coteaz ability works on units that Deep Strike with Gate of Infinity but not units that are summoned. Cause arriving and having arrived are the same statement in that sentence we know these abilities trigger because of grammatical order. Point to a rule that that unit has to follow if it in fact is treated as arrived but not arriving from reserve. There's not one that's not included in Deep Strike. There's no rules in Reserve that it has to follow that are not including in the deepstrike rules themselves. It's a clarification on where it is arriving from so that you know to treat it as arriving from reserve. That's the purpose of that sentence. It clarifies where it is arriving from.

having arrived is not past tense it's present tense of arrives.

Then arrives - is not present tense.

I give up. If people disagree with me, the're disagreeing with the function of the English language. I don't know how to lay it out any more than to physically come to your house with a lesson plan and a red pen. Let someone else explain this gak.

Sadly, it seems that people are not seeing this because they are either unable to understand or unwilling to learn the rules for grammar. I wish I could go on explaining it as clearly as you have, but I dont see how it can be made any more clear. As they say, "You can lead a horse to water..."

 extremefreak17 wrote:

Hollismason wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
This and this


When the power is resolved, the new unit then arrives via Deep Strike, within the power’s maximum range; the new unit is under your control and is treated as having arrived from Reserves for all rules purposes.

Happen before

This

When the power is resolved, the new unit then arrives via Deep Strike, within the power’s maximum range; the new unit is under your control and is treated as having arrived from Reserves for all rules purposes.

Yes. So when you get to the Deep Strike part, the unit is already treated as having arrived from Reserve. It is not, at that point, arriving from reserve. It already did. You just haven't put them on the table yet.

I've literally laid this out like 3 times now with direct references and examples.

Yeah. weird, right? It's almost starting to seem like people disagree with you.

It doesn't need to say that at all because stating it deepstrikes, includes all of the special rules from arriving from reserve.

Not at all. If they hadn't included that bit, people would be arguing that it shouldn't be treated as having arrived from reserve, because it was never in reserve to begin with. It just used the Deep Strike rules to get onto the table.'

And I know people would be arguing that, because we had that exact argument on numerous occasions over Gate of Infinity in previous editions.

I can't be any clearer that having arrived from is not a past tense statement. I've listed the grammatical rules. if you just simply refuse to acknowledge that it arrives from reserve before it deepstrikes , then I don't know what to tell you.

The 2nd part O_o , you simply didn't answer my question.

So now are you saying that Coteaz ability works on units that Deep Strike with Gate of Infinity but not units that are summoned. Cause arriving and having arrived are the same statement in that sentence we know these abilities trigger because of grammatical order. Point to a rule that that unit has to follow if it in fact is treated as arrived but not arriving from reserve. There's not one that's not included in Deep Strike. There's no rules in Reserve that it has to follow that are not including in the deepstrike rules themselves. It's a clarification on where it is arriving from so that you know to treat it as arriving from reserve. That's the purpose of that sentence. It clarifies where it is arriving from.

having arrived is not past tense it's present tense of arrives.

Then arrives - is not present tense.

I give up. If people disagree with me, the're disagreeing with the function of the English language. I don't know how to lay it out any more than to physically come to your house with a lesson plan and a red pen. Let someone else explain this gak.

Sadly, it seems that people are not seeing this because they are either unable to understand or unwilling to learn the rules for grammar. I wish I could go on explaining it as clearly as you have, but I dont see how it can be made any more clear. As they say, "You can lead a horse to water..."

It's because they're makinga semantic argument that's incorrect. Having arrived in that tense means arriving or arrives. They think that -ed means past tense and that it has already happened but we know it is happening now because it uses -ing in that phrase. They're not going to write it like that because then it would imply or be unclear on whether you have to basically make a reserve roll. Having arrived makes it definitive that it is occuring and in fact arrives from reserve without any question. They'd be correct if the statement of afterwards, or after, occurs before that sentence.


The fact that the deepstriking sentence states "then arrives" does not actually make it present tense.

A simple rule to follow when understanding sentences is what does a phrase tell us and what information does it give us. We know when, where , and how in that statement. We know that it occurs when the power is successful, we know it comes from reserve, we know it uses deepstrike to get there. It's no point in arguing it further. I can't be bothered with it you are welcome to keep trying but honestly , it's going to just keep going in circles as they refuse to acknowledge rules of grammar.

You are welcome to continue, I'm not I can't make myself any clearer and explain any further as there is outright refusal to acknowledge the basic rules of grammar.

 insaniak wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
This and this


When the power is resolved, the new unit then arrives via Deep Strike, within the power’s maximum range; the new unit is under your control and is treated as having arrived from Reserves for all rules purposes.

Happen before

This

When the power is resolved, the new unit then arrives via Deep Strike, within the power’s maximum range; the new unit is under your control and is treated as having arrived from Reserves for all rules purposes.

Yes. So when you get to the Deep Strike part, the unit is already treated as having arrived from Reserve. It is not, at that point, arriving from reserve. It already did. You just haven't put them on the table yet.

This here, what Insaniak said, proves that the Webway can not be used by conjured daemons..

Also disallowed by the context of the DE codex...

Remember that the DE codex was written in 5th ed, there were no such thing as allies.

As such the context of the DE codex, "your army" in the DA book refers to Dark Eldar models and units only.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
This and this


When the power is resolved, the new unit then arrives via Deep Strike, within the power’s maximum range; the new unit is under your control and is treated as having arrived from Reserves for all rules purposes.

Happen before

This

When the power is resolved, the new unit then arrives via Deep Strike, within the power’s maximum range; the new unit is under your control and is treated as having arrived from Reserves for all rules purposes.

Yes. So when you get to the Deep Strike part, the unit is already treated as having arrived from Reserve. It is not, at that point, arriving from reserve. It already did. You just haven't put them on the table yet.

This here, what Insaniak said, proves that the Webway can not be used by conjured daemons..

Also disallowed by the context of the DE codex...

Remember that the DE codex was written in 5th ed, there were no such thing as allies.

As such the context of the DE codex, "your army" in the DA book refers to Dark Eldar models and units only.

Except his argument revolves around an idea that is grammatically incorrect, and thus, invalid. This has already been shown MULTIPLE times, and again in Hollismason's direct response to that post. "Having arrived" is not past tense within the structure of the rule. You CANNOT argue against that without ignoring the rules for grammar.

The context argument falls short as well. We have to assume that when they defined "your army" in 7th edition, they had all pertaining rules in mind. Your argument for this is clearly RAI as you have zero RAW support.

And we've shown multiple times where he is incorrect.

 Ghaz wrote:
And we've shown multiple times where he is incorrect.

Nope, you've shown either complete ignorance on what I have written or have completely ignored my statements on why that is written that way grammatically and how it is in fact not past tense at all.

Nope. Once again the pot is calling the kettle black.

 Ghaz wrote:
Nope. Once again the pot is calling the kettle black.

No. Just no.

Hollismason has cited serveral different sources which clearly show how the grammar functions in a case such as this.

You have cited, well, nothing.

If you think you can provide some evidence that proves the grammar of the rule allows it to work the way you think it does, please do. Otherwise, you have no valid argument here.

This like a conversation in a Joseph Heller novel.

 extremefreak17 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
This and this


When the power is resolved, the new unit then arrives via Deep Strike, within the power’s maximum range; the new unit is under your control and is treated as having arrived from Reserves for all rules purposes.

Happen before

This

When the power is resolved, the new unit then arrives via Deep Strike, within the power’s maximum range; the new unit is under your control and is treated as having arrived from Reserves for all rules purposes.

Yes. So when you get to the Deep Strike part, the unit is already treated as having arrived from Reserve. It is not, at that point, arriving from reserve. It already did. You just haven't put them on the table yet.

This here, what Insaniak said, proves that the Webway can not be used by conjured daemons..

Also disallowed by the context of the DE codex...

Remember that the DE codex was written in 5th ed, there were no such thing as allies.

As such the context of the DE codex, "your army" in the DA book refers to Dark Eldar models and units only.

Except his argument revolves around an idea that is grammatically incorrect, and thus, invalid. This has already been shown MULTIPLE times, and again in Hollismason's direct response to that post. "Having arrived" is not past tense within the structure of the rule. You CANNOT argue against that without ignoring the rules for grammar.

Exactly, his argument revolves around an idea that is grammatically incorrect, and thus, invalid.

The context argument falls short as well. We have to assume that when they defined "your army" in 7th edition, they had all pertaining rules in mind. Your argument for this is clearly RAI as you have zero RAW support.

Codex Trumps Rulebook when there is a conflict. This falls under such an occurrence, ans as such the Context argument is valid.

Probably about locking time?

It would seem so.

Moving on.