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 Grey Templar wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
Talk to your wife.

Gotta get me one of those I guess

Or the guy you put as administrator or whatever you call it.

Never saw the option come up anywhere.

Then yea its definitely the wife.

She will tell you if you have enough for a feast in the inventory etc. Just go woo one and steal her hand in marriage. Easier than getting friendly with her dad too. Plus you may get to fight for her hand.

Its on my to-do list. I've actually chosen one, and her dad likes me, but she's not super keen.

Nobody seems super keen actually. You think the guy in charge of half of Calradia would have women falling all over him, but noooooo we gotta snub him!

 Grey Templar wrote:
Its on my to-do list. I've actually chosen one, and her dad likes me, but she's not super keen.

Nobody seems super keen actually. You think the guy in charge of half of Calradia would have women falling all over him, but noooooo we gotta snub him!

Win a tournament, learn poems, dedicate tournament win to the nearest babe you see (babes love a tournament victor). Then when she is interested she will ask to see you at night. Then one poem at a time win her heart.

After a few weeks you can marry, consummate the marriage and see her when feasts are needed.

Ultimately a very shallow marriage. But first you must dedicate your tournaments to the females.

Got this game a week ago, now I'm sitting on Castle Yruma which was the last bastion of the Vaegir and my first piece of land. Thankfully my neighbors are friendly. What am I supposed to do now? I was hoping to use this as a jumping off point for conquest without ever swearing fealty to anyone but 109 soldiers isn't enough to take on a kingdom.

Any suggestions?

Now I'm wasting time running down desert/steppe bandits with an army of women. Which is fun. My 30 Sword Sisters and 8 lesser ranked ladies VS 132 Steppe Bandits on horseback, very entertaining. Had my horse shot from beneath me 4 times during that battle. Lost 6 sisters.

Brytenwalda:
Well, I got flattened. Tried to recover from it, but ended up loading an earlier save. Pretty difficult! I need a sustainable way of "training" a group of basic troops up, so that I don't spend so much on wages.

Anyone pre ordering the Viking Expansion for Warband?

Already done it.

Hi. I've been playing Mount & Blade for a while. I have recently found the Warsword Conquest mod and have started a Chaos campaign to a good start. Any advice on how to go about playing?

 Swastakowey wrote:
Anyone pre ordering the Viking Expansion for Warband?

is it up for preorder on Steam?

Yes it is, its like 11 dollars US or something.

Looks pretty cool.

Huh, didn't even notice that. Well they'll be getting a hell yeah from me. Ooh, and in time for Christmas too.

It looks like just a development and refinement of the mod. The features are all still there, but things like religion have been streamlined (no longer twenty different variants of Christianity versus Paganism). Looks like the player models are better, and they've stuck on a fancy lighting effect. There's new buildings as well from the looks of it, but I hope those are in with the original mod's ones as well (particularly I'm wonder if we'll be seeing the craggy bushes that were everywhere in the mod. They really fit what the North of the country's like). Sea battles seem to be the focus, so its nice that they've added in things like waves rather than the flat pane of water that Warband and Napoleonic wars suffer from (I wonder if that came from this expansion or is based on something from the sequel that's in development). That you can fend off raiding parties as they come in to land on the beach is pretty cool, especially now that I'm wondering if you can set up some siege weapons and try and take the ships out before they even land. It looks like the same game, and to extent mod, just with a bit more oomph. What kind of candle it holds to the sequel I don't know, but I'm hoping that it'll be a stop gap as far as quality goes (and that with some monetary backing it'll fix Brytenwalda's issues, notably floating crap everywhere, quest bugs, and through wanting to appeal to a slightly more general audience, perhaps less of a language barrier, or at least a more streamlined number of factions- I don't want to be spammed by thirty different country's messages every hour).

Edit: Eugh, but can we have some decent female armour models please? Brytenwalda didn't even bother including ones for most of the outfits, notably you could run about with a male naked body and a female head. Just for variety and to have more to dress up companions with. Its not so bad with the heavier armour, particularly platemail, but I'd rather not be limited in what to outfit a companion with due to her suddenly growing a bulge between their legs. ...Ok now I'm wondering if the Pictish sets are still in (not for any particular reasons to do with bulges, nah, the agility boost for having you tackle out was cool. That and walking into a feast wearing a loincloth and covered in war paint surely would ruffle the lords the wrong way, I'm thinking the Gaulish senators from the series Rome here).

Hopefully its better than the Caribbean one they made.

Caribbean has some cool features too, but its far from complete. High hopes for the vikings.

Damn, I didn't even know that another company was making that. Its an early access game, so I wouldn't be touching it for a while, but I'm wondering how it plays at the moment. If its just an expandalone I wouldn't think they were shaking things up too much that it'd take massive amounts of time to make. Funny, I've played the series for a while now and neither had I heard about Brytenwalda or that Caribbean game (well it is rather new).

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Damn, I didn't even know that another company was making that. Its an early access game, so I wouldn't be touching it for a while, but I'm wondering how it plays at the moment. If its just an expandalone I wouldn't think they were shaking things up too much that it'd take massive amounts of time to make. Funny, I've played the series for a while now and neither had I heard about Brytenwalda or that Caribbean game (well it is rather new).

There is another game coming out which is a NEW game (not an expansion) which is gonna be a massive overhaul update. Cant remember the name.

The Caribbean is fun. Ship battles, boarding assaults. Cannon and gun are are fun to have. Orders are more advanced. A lot of focus on trade and so on.

Just some glitches that somewhat let it down.

The coolest part, for me, was having my musket men line up as I was attacked and ordering a volley fire. Also throwing grenades into a bunch of sailors trying to board my boat was fun as well.

But worth waiting for sure.


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Banner lord:

http://imgur.com/a/okbvR







More on the link.

Looks cool.

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Huh, didn't even notice that. Well they'll be getting a hell yeah from me. Ooh, and in time for Christmas too.

It looks like just a development and refinement of the mod. The features are all still there, but things like religion have been streamlined (no longer twenty different variants of Christianity versus Paganism). Looks like the player models are better, and they've stuck on a fancy lighting effect. There's new buildings as well from the looks of it, but I hope those are in with the original mod's ones as well (particularly I'm wonder if we'll be seeing the craggy bushes that were everywhere in the mod. They really fit what the North of the country's like). Sea battles seem to be the focus, so its nice that they've added in things like waves rather than the flat pane of water that Warband and Napoleonic wars suffer from (I wonder if that came from this expansion or is based on something from the sequel that's in development). That you can fend off raiding parties as they come in to land on the beach is pretty cool, especially now that I'm wondering if you can set up some siege weapons and try and take the ships out before they even land. It looks like the same game, and to extent mod, just with a bit more oomph. What kind of candle it holds to the sequel I don't know, but I'm hoping that it'll be a stop gap as far as quality goes (and that with some monetary backing it'll fix Brytenwalda's issues, notably floating crap everywhere, quest bugs, and through wanting to appeal to a slightly more general audience, perhaps less of a language barrier, or at least a more streamlined number of factions- I don't want to be spammed by thirty different country's messages every hour).

Edit: Eugh, but can we have some decent female armour models please? Brytenwalda didn't even bother including ones for most of the outfits, notably you could run about with a male naked body and a female head. Just for variety and to have more to dress up companions with. Its not so bad with the heavier armour, particularly platemail, but I'd rather not be limited in what to outfit a companion with due to her suddenly growing a bulge between their legs. ...Ok now I'm wondering if the Pictish sets are still in (not for any particular reasons to do with bulges, nah, the agility boost for having you tackle out was cool. That and walking into a feast wearing a loincloth and covered in war paint surely would ruffle the lords the wrong way, I'm thinking the Gaulish senators from the series Rome here).

I didn't even know you could play as a female characters in Brytenwalda? It certainly didn't come up as an option for me when I started.

@Swastakowey

Calrad's meant to be a Rome expy right? I'm wondering if they'll distance themselves from the real world nations which the countries in the first game were based. That and sort out the geography a bit (tundras right next to desert). its looking good so far, but I can't help but wondering what the system requirements will be. All those new models are sure to play hell with performance once you start throwing out 150 (or more) a side battle lines. At least I'm seeing much more variety in the building models, or well just better ones. Is the game supposed to be the founding of the empire or its downfall? In either I wouldn't mind seeing some expy of the Goths or the like involved, but by the looks of it they're keeping to the established factions and their styling from the original.

@Shadow Captain Edithae

Yeah you can play as one, but a lot of the dialogue still refers to you as male. For one the battle cry things use a male voice. Its the same as the base game where it takes twice as long to get anywhere, but supposedly lords respect a woman more because of how far they had to climb (I think that's just the dev's way of saying that you have more renown already, so lords will of course respect you more, not a new mechanic). There's a smattering of armour types with female models, but a lot of them default to the male one. So you can find a few per tier, but everything else looks pretty odd on your character (to the point that if you do find a good set of armour which doesn't have the right model then I'd say turn on the cheat menu and sift through the sets till you find one at the same level which does). They really didn't put the effort in in that regard, but its not like it isn't a male orientated game, so I guess why bother (bar all the five or so female companions that you have to be careful how you kit out).

IIRC its like the second option on the first character creation menu. =P

Not like the period really had many female warriors, but I'd certainly want to see them accommodated in the expansion. Women did fight then, perhaps not as part of raiding parties, but they'd take up arms when their settlement was being attacked. Hmn, maybe I'm a little too influenced by the comic Northlanders with all its female protagonists sticking it to Christian values ("get back in the kitchen"). Actually having read that series I kind of have a view of the period which I'd like to see emulated, but the devs might tone down all the violence somewhat (yup, a military sim is toned down in comparison to a comic, who'd have thunk it).

Ugh, the AI....when the AI takes over after you get knocked out, I swear they send your troops in one guy at a time, it's the only thing that explains such brutally high casualty rates

 motyak wrote:
Ugh, the AI....when the AI takes over after you get knocked out, I swear they send your troops in one guy at a time, it's the only thing that explains such brutally high casualty rates

Assuming you mean in vanilla M&B, this is the reason why so many mods include things like Death Cam, and having the fight carry on after you're knocked unconscious. The vanilla game incurs such a tremendous, arbitrary penalty for you being knocked out (especially compared to an AI Lord or leader being knocked out, which doesn't really have THAT big of an impact at all) that it's rare you'll find a mod that doesn't have an option to have battles carry on afterwards. The effect of getting knocked unconscious in vanilla is comparable to when the Battle Droids all de-activate in The Phantom Menace after the control ship is destroyed; it's utterly ridiculous.

What do you do when you're knocked unconscious? Ctrl + Alt + F4 of course. =P

Pretty much.

Yep that's been my solution thus far, then reload and try not to have to carry the team too much ha. I'll look into some mods, thanks

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Not like the period really had many female warriors, but I'd certainly want to see them accommodated in the expansion. Women did fight then, perhaps not as part of raiding parties, but they'd take up arms when their settlement was being attacked.

Crappy armour models and assets for player characters aside, Women are already accommodated in a reasonably historically accurate way as NPC fighters.

There are various female named characters who can be recruited, some of whom are already warriors. (these might represent the eponymous "Shield Maiden" figures of Norse mythology).
Theres a Peasant Woman unit, who appears in villages during raids, and can be recruited and promoted to Camp Follower, Defender, Soldier's Wife etc.
Theres a "Shield Sister" unit in the native game.

Besides, I don't thinks the armour assets defaulting to male is particularly problematic. A woman, wearing full body armour (especially that of the Middle Ages with all the layers of cloth, leather, chainmail and fur), will be pretty bulky anyway and have a silhouette closer to that of a man. When I play female characters (I used to play a female Khergit Bandit "Queen"), I'm more annoyed by the hair disappearing when I wear a helmet.

The voice defaulting to male is stupid though, they should definitely address that. Thats a blatant bug/oversight.

Its the same as the base game where it takes twice as long to get anywhere, but supposedly lords respect a woman more because of how far they had to climb (I think that's just the dev's way of saying that you have more renown already, so lords will of course respect you more, not a new mechanic)

Well that is historically accurate for the period.

Female characters in Mount and Blade should get a bonus modifier for renown, so they gain renown faster and become famous quicker than male characters. That would reflect the shield maidens of Norse mythology better - they were so famous and so remarkable because they were women. That would go some to offset the difficulty in obtaining vassal ships from the king.

Hmn, maybe I'm a little too influenced by the comic Northlanders with all its female protagonists sticking it to Christian values ("get back in the kitchen"). Actually having read that series I kind of have a view of the period which I'd like to see emulated, but the devs might tone down all the violence somewhat (yup, a military sim is toned down in comparison to a comic, who'd have thunk it).

No, I'd rather not see the base game Mount and Blade game(s), and the new Viking Conquest DLC follow that comic book like stylized aesthetic/world . I quite like the pseudo historical accuracy of Mount and Blade (little to no fantasy style weapons and armour, female combatants are rare etc), and having lots more warrior-women running around would undermine that. But as a Mod? Absolutely. No reason why some creative Modder shouldn't play around with the art assets, or to invent some Norse Shield Maiden style characters and units, or even make entire factions of warrior women. That might be a cool unofficial addition for the Viking Conquest DLC - fantasy style shield maidens and valkyries from Norse mythology.


I think the appeal of Shield Maidens in Norse mythology stems from the fact that real Shield Maiden's in history were so rare in the first place. Historically, it was so unusual and rare for woman to act as professional warriors that it was recorded and stands out in the historical record. These historical figures, these Shield Maidens stand out so much and are so memorable in Norse mythology because they were so unusual for the time. If (professional) warrior-women really were common place and nothing unusual for the time, it would undermine the bravery of those shield maidens because it wouldn't be so remarkable anymore. Those women were all the more brave for taking up arms because they were women.


That said, in my current Brytenwalda playthrough I've got at least 3 women characters in my party, one an archer, and two equipped as "shield maidens". All the named characters, male or female, in my party are mounted but can dismount and fight in the shield wall when necessary (bar the archer).


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 Wyrmalla wrote:
What do you do when you're knocked unconscious? Ctrl + Alt + F4 of course. =P

I save before EVERY major battle or siege.

You can stand still and by a backseat commander, but I find it rarely works. Why do nothing at all when the Ai spends forever actually doing anything? The player can run about the place kiting whole armies as their own side just miles about for an hour taking pot shots. In Brytenwalda you can have the Ai at a standstill just by not ordering them to attack. The other side will sit in their defensive position all day waiting for you to come to them, and well heaven forbid you somehow die before you give the order for your own side to break cover and attack. Its not so bad at the harder difficulties, but I find that you really need to be active, both through ordering your troops to charge and retreat, and being bent as hell lopping off heads from the saddle. Heh, and never auto resolve. You can outnumber the enemy twenty to one yet still manage to lose a handful of troops to an inferior enemy force. If you really can't be bothered fighting someone then just load up the map and cheat the enemy to death, but never trust the random number system the game apparently has for auto-resolving battles or you'll wind up losing guys.

I find a hill. Put archers at the top and infantry at the bottom.

I ride with my cav and find the enemy position (if they are the kind of AI that sits there). All you need to do to get them to charge is by dealing damage. I dotn use archery or anything so I send the cav in to die. Sometimes I die to enemy archers doing this but since the cav never survive more than a few battles I try make their attacks count.

This makes the enemy come to me and lure them back to my defensive lines where my archers can pound the enemy before the battle starts.

I have it set up so that my men dont charge stupidly when I die, instead holding their ground relying on the archers to pick off any distant enemies.

Works well against all armies. Needs no auto resolve and the only downside is cavalry dont end up living long. But thats fine, you can use them up before you have to pay them their wages and save money.

When I say male armour on women, I'm fine with the metal parts being the same, but its obvious that women don't have massive muscly arms... It doesn't take much to resize a model so isn't clearly that of a bulky guy, but the quantity of outfits in games would mean more time than most would be bothered with given the lack of female warriors.

I play as a woman who's father was an outlaw, and she herself was a poacher and before that an urchin. That and she worships a faith nobody cares about any more (though that's specific to Brytenwalda and doesn't have an effect on renown). If there's one person who is unlikely to be a noble then its her. Though that kind of lifestyle however is perhaps more fitting with those cultures which respect a warrior's skill over what their blood is (though I doubt many even then would respect someone so low as that lady until she spend a good while pallying up with the lords. ...Even if she does prefer just beheading them).

Heh, I was referring to a few select stories from the series Northlanders, not it as a whole. Northlander's is supposed to be a realistic take on that whole period of Norse culture, and its far ranging enough that it included a few stories involving women (ie one where some wives take up swords while the men are away Viking, only for the enemy to spend most of their time slagging them off instead even bothering to fight them properly). Though yes, it is a comic book. Whilst women, however rarely do turn up, do have a load of representation, the inevitable response of most of the men is to be sexist git of course. So I wasn't saying that there should be an even number of female warriors with men at all, or well even if they should appear in higher numbers than they already do. Rather my point in the bit you quoted was more to do with showing a grittier world than what Mount and Blade typically does, but that's not something really seen (ie like comparing a series like The Pacific to a Napoleonic line battle style game like Bolt Action. Difficult to show off all the lovely swearing, gore and war crimes, or rather the human side of events).

Certain armor does have very broad shoulders and upper arms. Particularly whatever Rhodok Sergeants wear.

I think part of the problem might be that the armor doesn't conform to an underlying body but instead each suit of armor has its own body shape underneath.

Just have a male character put on a dress. He'll suddenly have a female body.

Ok now I get you. And thanks for clarifying the comic thing, that sound like something I'd really enjoy. I think I'll see if I can get that on my Kindle.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Certain armor does have very broad shoulders and upper arms. Particularly whatever Rhodok Sergeants wear.

I think part of the problem might be that the armor doesn't conform to an underlying body but instead each suit of armor has its own body shape underneath.

Just have a male character put on a dress. He'll suddenly have a female body.

Brytenwalda has a "Pictish Woman Warrior" armour piece.

When you wear it, you magically transform into a blue tatooed woman wearing a bra and underwear.

Needless to say, going semi naked doesn't make for very effective armour, so all my female followers/heroes wear proper leather,fur or chainmail armour.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Downloading volume 1 of north Landers now.

On a side note, I'm painting some anglo saxon miniatures for SAGA.

@ Grey Templar

Its an oversight and really not difficult to fix if you want to make a hack and slash job of it (just overlay the female mesh on the male one and move the vertices to align with that. Hey I said it wasn't a good job, but Bethesda get away with all the time). Like I said though the devs clearly don't think as many players would have female characters, or bother what their female companions look like, so they just left them using manly bodies. In a game where if you don't wear the same type of shoes with the right set of armour you wind up not having any shins, I doubt something like female meshes were of massive import. =P

@ Shadow Captain Edithae

Its a series published by Vertigo. Come on Vertigo's awesome! Heh, that and the writer also wrote DMZ, which has to be one of the best military comics I've ever read (in so much that its about civilians and guerrillas living inside a demilitarized zone. Said DMZ just happening to be New York during a second American civil war. Yup). Go pick up any old volume of it, the whole series takes place over a couple of hundred years of history, charting the early Norse folk all the way up to the post Christian days through a load of mostly unrelated short stories (typically a volume in length). If you're just going to dip in though either the first book or last are the way to go. The first being a single story about a warrior returning home to reclaim his inheritance (the intending to bugger off back to the middle east to spend it and leaving his homeland to rot), and the last charting the settlement of Iceland, charting the rise and fall of a single family, and having the message that things just have to change to survive (the series as a whole shows Christianity's effects on the region, where those stories set during the early period are all about killing Christians and knicking their stuff, but by the end of it the Norse themselves are Christian and the followers of the old gods are either shunned or nonexistent).

Oh and yeah, my mates who play Saga have been passing that series about themselves for the past few months. I lent it to one of them, but they all keep wanting to read it. It kind of made me want to make a few one off Vikings to play some Skirmish games with, but yeah, I don't need distractions when I'm already working on way too much Fallout stuff. It'd be fun to see what I could manage in a medieval setting rather than a post-apocalyptic one, but knowing myself I couldn't just make a few warriors, it'd have to be a village, some standing stones, and a load of deer to hunt, among other crap. =P

Something which confused me is why there's a male and female version of the Pictish Warrior outfits. I mean not separate models, which there is, entirely different items. Its not like a single armour set can't have a models assigned to it based on sex, so why doesn't that? Its either some factor which I don't know about, or the person who made those particular sets doesn't know how to implement armour properly.

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:Historically, it was so unusual and rare for woman to act as professional warriors that it was recorded and stands out in the historical record.

So if no female warriors are mentioned, we automatically assume they didn't exist, yet when they are mentioned, they must have been exceptions, because they were mentioned? That sounds a bit problematic, if I may say so.

How many records do we have about female medieval mercenaries or knights? In the majority of cases, we've heard of them not because they were women but - just like with the men - because of what they did. Just to provide one example: no-one gave a gak about Claude des Armoiselles being a female mercenary captain, and the only reason we know of her at all is because she got sued in a German court. Similarly, how come that we've had female combatants levied for the War of the Roses, yet such names never saw any mention anywhere else except on a muster roll? Right, maybe it was just because someone didn't care about some peasants, and they failed to achieve something great. Just like, maybe, a lot more female warriors were forgotten because, just like the vast majority of male warriors, they got killed in a fairly unglorious way rather than seeing their name become legend. Not everyone can be a Rusla, after all. Thusly, perhaps we see a fairly small amount of records because at the time it was indeed not considered to be anything special all by itself - at least for their own culture, for if gender is mentioned as something special, it is of note that this is usually pointed out not by the chroniclers of the side said warrior fought for, but by the ones she fought against (= culture clash). Undoubtedly, ideas about gender roles still differed heavily between individual nations as well as eras.

Admittedly, this is only partially relevant to the Vikings, but you've got to ask yourself whether such a perception of history is truly objective rather than influenced by contemporary "common knowledge". Just like with a lot of early archaeological findings, where gender used to be identified based solely on the objects the grave contained - a practice (and results) that should be reconsidered after newer osteological investigations.

In truth, I believe the actual amount to be higher than popular opinion suggests, but also lower than how some "extreme" proponents of gender equality would interpret it (where I've sometimes seen ratios go as high as fifty-fifty). Undoubtedly, the entire topic is somewhat controversial and loaded due to tying into a contemporary social struggle, so we need to be careful not to fall prey to conclusions drawn "reflexively" by both extremes of the modern argument (in this case: rare exceptions vs 1:1).

In game terms, this means that I would like to see female warriors as an everyday sight rather than something special and unique limited to companion characters, special units or other NPCs, whilst at the same time avoiding an equal representation that avoids to pay respect to considerations such as probable alternate roles (household keepers, mothers). Say, 15-20%? This would seem to be in line with the aforementioned osteological findings, at least from the few graves I've read about.

Obviously the above is merely my own collective interpretation of the things I've read as well, and history/archaeology itself is still heavily divided over the issue, especially as new findings keep popping up, challenging established views. It certainly isn't as clear-cut as a lot of people make it out to be!

Grey Templar wrote:Certain armor does have very broad shoulders and upper arms. Particularly whatever Rhodok Sergeants wear.

I was generally satisfied with what I had in M&B, though I have to admit a slightly more obvious differentiation (meaning: any differentiation) would be appreciated, at least on some sets. The chest doesn't matter much because you could just claim your character binds off her breasts, though usually the heavy padding or rigid plate do a good job at hiding your gender anyways. But the width of the torso (shoulders, sometimes hips) and the arms could have used improvements. I'm curious to see what they'll do in the expansion about this, though it's never been a major concern for me with the current graphics. In M&B II, it could be more important, as improved visuals warrant more detail.

Wyrmalla wrote:Something which confused me is why there's a male and female version of the Pictish Warrior outfits. I mean not separate models, which there is, entirely different items. Its not like a single armour set can't have a models assigned to it based on sex, so why doesn't that? Its either some factor which I don't know about, or the person who made those particular sets doesn't know how to implement armour properly.

If the male version is a completely bare torso, maybe the leather bra provides a single point of armour...


By the way, thanks for making me aware of this upcoming expansion, dakka.

Phew! This game is challenging. I couldn't hold on to my fief, so I let it go, and focused on raiding and pillaging. I pillaged a fort multiple times, and now my rep is at -90!

I figure I can't come back from this, but feth it. I'm going to build a Lair somewhere and start just looting every fort or settlement I can take.