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 NightHowler wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
If literally all the charge move rules cared about was an unblocked path, you'd be right.
It's not, however. Demonstrably so, unlike your assertions.

It's not an abstract rule, even if you keep insisting it is. Just like you can't abstractly measure 3".

Demonstrably so? And can you demonstrate the assault rule that stops me from assaulting a unit in ruins? (demonstrate means quote in this case).

If you can't make base contact, you can't fulfill a rule required to move the initial charger (as I've quoted).
If you can't follow the "Move initial charger" rule, how are you able to make the charge without breaking any rules?
Until you can show why you're allowed to break this rule (because, per your agreement, base contact is required) "pretending" isn't enough (except as a HYWPI argument).

No, the rules don't cover what happens when you break a rule. That'd be stupid to include in a rule set.

Charge Move pg 46 of the hardback, Moving Charging Models section about the middle of the Paragraph, in bold. "-following the rules as in the movement phase, with the exception that they can be moved within 1" of enemy models."

Then under Move The Initial Charger, "Move the initial charger into contact with the nearest enemy model in the unit being charged, using the shortest possible route."

So including the part quoted earlier for moving up terrain you must be able to be placed where you want the model to end its move, and you must be in base contact to achieve the charge.

 NightHowler wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 NightHowler wrote:
Does this prove or disprove something? I never said that you didn't need to be able to move far enough to get into base to base - just that if your model couldn't stay there you could still call it a successful charge.

When the person is arguing that distance is the most important thing, it's an important fact to establish. And no, I don't believe you are able to hang in mid air, by the actual rules.
As if you're not in base contact you've failed to meet the rule I quoted.

Wow. Then you completely failed to comprehend what I wrote. In all fairness to you, it was some pretty high level stuff. If you go back and read it closely you might find some gems in there, but it will take some effort

rigeld2 wrote:

The problem I have is not with the individual points. The problem I have with your argument is that you take this disparate points and use them to make the logical leap that it all adds up to you can't assault models in a ruins.

It's not a logical leap, it's a consequence of the rules. If you have a 24" range weapon and are 30.5" away from a model you want to shoot it's not a "logical leap" to make the statement that you can't shoot that model with a unit that moves 6" a turn.

MmmHmmm. But we're not talking about shooting. We're not even talking about a 24" charge against models that are 30.5" away. We're talking about a 3" charge against models that are 3" away with nothing blocking the path between charger and chargee. But then, I don't see the world in the harsh contrast of black and white, so I guess it's easier for me to understand how abstract rules work.

Remembering that if you can't reach the target, for literally whatever reason (that reason most commonly, or "usually", being that the target is more than 12" away), you can't declare the charge in the first place. You keep ignoring this. The rules work perfectly fine in every instance if you interpret "can reach" as "can achieve base to base contact with". It you interpret "can reach" as "within 12 inches"... well, then... you'll have unresolvable rules situation. I honestly think you're making a mistake when you say "A model can reach the target, but can't move such that it gets into base to base with that target". I don't think it's possible to be able to reach but not hit base to base. Again, the rules don't seem to support reaching as only being distance based.

This seems to have made a sufficient number of revolutions by this point. Time to move on...