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 Dakkamite wrote:


Wait, did we just get deep strike assaults?

I *think* we did... The wording is a bit off.. the pod already has the assault vehicle rule, so it looks like a blanket permission to assault on the turn you disembark.

Is there not some rule that prevents us charging after arriving from reserve, which this would not overcome.

There definitely is such a restriction. The question would be if the new rule provides a blanket override to all restrictions. If it doesn't, then the rule does nothing.


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The best allied psykers for summoning are probably horrors and tzeentch heralds. another alternative is flying Prince.

An allied chaos sorceror is probably a better choice, but not very good at summoning.

Eh looking more at humans and mutants. If I wanted tzeench scum I'd be playing vanilla daemons

Re; the assault from reserves;

"this unit may charge in the turn it disembarks from the dread claw"
+
You can disembark from the claw on the turn you land
+
Dread Claws are assault vehicles, so you can already charge when you disembark from them, ergo this is not a rule that merely turns the transport into an assault transport
=
Seems rather obvious that this is an assault from deep strike rule to me, especially considering the alternative is that the rule does nothing at all.

Not really because there is a specific rule overriding it that says you can't charge after arriving from reserve.

What it allows you to do is stay in the pod for protection the charge out of it as it is an assault vehicle.

Can't assault out of reserve.

Can Assault out of an assault vehicle

The pupose of the Assault Vehicle which is pretty damn tough with 5 HP is to protect your men before they disembark and charge. With clever placement away from Melta and a bit of LOS blocking nothing is stopping that vehicle.

Plus it can come down in a safe place first turn.

Then it can move 6 the units inside disembark 6 and charge an average of 7.

It gives you a tough dangerous deepstriking tank with more HP than a Landraider. That points tag makes it marginally uncompetitive but it gives you a way to launch berzerkers.

 Dakkamite wrote:

Edit: Been looking for cheap ally psykers for the DK. Not to use for cowardly psychic powers - Khorne would not approve! - but purely as a way for more of Khornes servants to enter the battlefield via summoning. Anyone got suggestions? Something like the crappy psykers from the Vraks Renegades list, except that those can't take daemonology as far as I can tell, would be perfect

heralds of tzeentch are pretty cheap, and can have a lot of mobility. horrors are cheap as well.

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
Not really because there is a specific rule overriding it that says you can't charge after arriving from reserve.

What it allows you to do is stay in the pod for protection the charge out of it as it is an assault vehicle.

Can't assault out of reserve.

Can Assault out of an assault vehicle

The pupose of the Assault Vehicle which is pretty damn tough with 5 HP is to protect your men before they disembark and charge. With clever placement away from Melta and a bit of LOS blocking nothing is stopping that vehicle.

Plus it can come down in a safe place first turn.

Then it can move 6 the units inside disembark 6 and charge an average of 7.

It gives you a tough dangerous deepstriking tank with more HP than a Landraider. That points tag makes it marginally uncompetitive but it gives you a way to launch berzerkers.

If its already an assault vehicle then what does this special rule allowing you to assault when you disembark do?

Specific overrides general rules, if a specific rule is saying you can do X then it overrides the general rules saying you cannot. This rule either allows for deep strike assault or it does nothing at all, which doesn't leave much leeway in my mind for what its suppost to be doing

Edit: Have made a thread in the rules forum to see what they think. They'll dig up some rules nonsense preventing DSA and we can go about our business as though the formation doesn't exist.

 Dakkamite wrote:
Have made a thread in the rules forum to see what they think. They'll dig up some rules nonsense preventing DSA and we can go about our business as though the formation doesn't exist.

This is of course what will happen. Although I do feel pity for those who own a kharybdis and 20 bezerkers, and will have to go through this poorly written rules debate garbage everytime they wish to use it.

Haha emperor's lapdogs just got this exact formation, but they can shoot twice instead if they want, and it explicitly says they can charge in the assault phase on the turn they come down.

So its better, and clearer. Inb4 it gets ruled that the berserker formation cannot DSA but the loyalist one can.

So they do... haha. 15 units!

Only downside is that it has to be 15 units. But man, that gak is so scary, makes me wonder what they're smoking up in the GW "rules writing team"

comes in just under 2500 pts...

 Dakkamite wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
Not really because there is a specific rule overriding it that says you can't charge after arriving from reserve.

What it allows you to do is stay in the pod for protection the charge out of it as it is an assault vehicle.

Can't assault out of reserve.

Can Assault out of an assault vehicle

The pupose of the Assault Vehicle which is pretty damn tough with 5 HP is to protect your men before they disembark and charge. With clever placement away from Melta and a bit of LOS blocking nothing is stopping that vehicle.

Plus it can come down in a safe place first turn.

Then it can move 6 the units inside disembark 6 and charge an average of 7.

It gives you a tough dangerous deepstriking tank with more HP than a Landraider. That points tag makes it marginally uncompetitive but it gives you a way to launch berzerkers.

If its already an assault vehicle then what does this special rule allowing you to assault when you disembark do?

I just told you. You can sit in the vehicle protecting yourself and then move and charge out of it. It is after all a skimmer as well.

Its quite clear to me.

Specific overrides general rules, if a specific rule is saying you can do X then it overrides the general rules saying you cannot. This rule either allows for deep strike assault or it does nothing at all, which doesn't leave much leeway in my mind for what its suppost to be doing

The fact that it specifically doesn't over ride the rule means it isn't a specific over ride.

Sorry mate, I don't really buy the "it does nothing" argument myself, like to think even GW isn't quite *that* incompetent.

How good are the bloodcrushers and how to use them?
I just love the juggernoughts models, and i always wanted to run some with my juggerlord.

What can i use them for, and how to use them in relation to having terminators.,since they are in a formation together.

Hawehu@hotmail.com wrote:
How good are the bloodcrushers and how to use them?
I just love the juggernoughts models, and i always wanted to run some with my juggerlord.

What can i use them for, and how to use them in relation to having terminators.,since they are in a formation together.

Bloodcrushers are utterly terrible. Overcosted, fragile, incredibly mediocre damage output, and they don't really do anything that you couldn't do better with something else. They're the pyrovores of the Daemon and Khorne codices.

@hawehu
Terminators are best to run as 3man with 3x combi-melta 1 power sword and 2 power axe. Bloodcrushers are not that good but if you run 9 of them with 2 juggerlords you might get something out of them.

I've heard of Bloodcrushers as useful to run an Icon up the table. Anyone used them successfully for this?

Hope they're somewhat good, I have so many of them...

If there was anything worth dropping but to take crushers woth icon just to not scatter some bloodletters then its not worth it.

Yeah i thought it would be so.
They look fragile with only 5++
But with the formation they get an extra attack in melee if there are more enemies than them, perhaps then, if they get the charge, and there are more enemies, wich it will almost always be if i run a 3 squad, they will have furious charge for S6 A5 ws5.
It seems strong, but not very resillient.

They are a decent escort for a jugger Lord. Until you buy hounds or spawn.

Um see I have some and occasionally think I'll summon them in...but never do...

Had a game last night, vs tyranids. I faced a skyblight list that had 4 flyrants, 3 mycolids, 3x10 gargoyles, 2 harpies, 2 crone, 1 pod with a dakkafex.
8 flyers was hard to take down, but i dominated the board taking maelstrom obj, helldrake and grinders + he doing perils took down 2 flyrants, 1 crone, 2 harpes. I won the game 15-5. Once again grinders showed that they are so much better than maulers being almost immune to his shooting, he tried to haywire them down but was to slow.

Well played. What was your list?

The one i posted above in my big post

Hmmm triple grinders. Might try and get some more.

Ideally khorne them up using spare parts from a BT kit

Worked every game, now am trying to fit in a second helldrake. Wanna see if it makes a difference, i am guessing it can come in handy late game when most of my hounds and spawns are dead

 Dakkamite wrote:
Sorry mate, I don't really buy the "it does nothing" argument myself, like to think even GW isn't quite *that* incompetent.

There are countless examples that shows them being exactly that incompetent, and worse. I can think of examples just out of the latest edition before we get into codexes.

Yet I give them my money, oh well.

How does three bloodcrushers fare vs 10 sluggaboyz in eavy armor?
What if vs 5 terminators with powerfists?
Will they even last one round?

Depends who gets the charge. But even without doing the math consider this, or at least I did as I am building Khorne lists for the first ever time

15p per wound, 9 wounds across 3 models
T4
6+/5++

They've got some good stuff, if they get that extra attack which I think they do means 15 attacks on the charge and WS5 but other than that its just far to squishy. Deep Strike and fearless don't matter to me when I could be losing them so easily.

Compare them to a marine squad, well I'll take the durability, potential to carry a decent couple of weapons and bolters over a few extra CC attacks. I'll take that every time.

Oh well, i guess ill buy them then..
Cant believe i still want to buy and paint them...
Im games workshops golden consumer.


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Can you think of some ways to use them?

I guess they will be like firemagnets unless i can let them come as melee finishers, and use some other cheap squad to start the bloodcrushing.

What units are good firemagnets for daemonkin? As in cheap and durable and people will actually prioritise shooting them?