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 Ghazkuul wrote:
I would kill Ghaz in a heart beat. Apparently the biggest baddest ork since the Emperor walked among the stars is a T5 W4 Ork Warboss with the incredibly ability to let meganobz run...once.....a game.

Ohh did i mention he doesn't have an invul except for 1 turn a game?

Could the orks please get some ridiculously OP character or hell just a halfway decent one that doesn't get killed by EVERY eldar character.

He even gets beat up by a puny humie...

Ghazzy is a badass concept, but he needs to be scarier, imo.

Happyjew wrote:Here is a complete list of all potential "Mary Sues"

Lelith Hesperax
St. Celestine
Jain Zar

Pretty sure that's it. Any other female HQ's I missed?

Pedantry is everything. :p

Irrelevant as it is over all, HJ has a point. We are mostly discussing Gary Stu in this thread.

Lol nice picture Wyzilla.

Maybe the dexes can have some quality writing? Lord knows the money doesn't go into rules writing or editing

Martel732 wrote:
Honor Harrington is the Mary Sue by which all other Mary Sues are judged. Dammit, 30 more lashes.

Weber is one of the worst authors I've ever read. Rob. S. Pierre. Really? Sounds like a GW writer, actually.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilien_Robespierre To be fair, that's one of GW's favorite shticks- reference historical figures with clever pun naming- it probably reached it's zenith with early Bretonian fluff blatantly ripping off Robin Hood, Camelot, and Joan of Arc.

drazhar. Crap in game, and stupid fluff.

-Mikey

You know..ghaz is lead up to be a badass, but GW will not write any lore to make the imperium look inferior to the an ork(or xenos) so changing the lore to make him an actual badass would be nice...maybe have him win the battle that orks and nids are having? and make the orks steamroll through the system.

 gummyofallbears wrote:
drazhar. Crap in game, and stupid fluff.

-Mikey

Neither of which were the criteria the OP was looking for.... to advance the story, though to be fair that was long enough ago and ignored by enough to have been forgotten and lost.

To also be fair, how much story is actually held up by a character being alive- and how much of that is story they WANT to advance?

Obviously the "main" story is contingent upon the Emperor on the Golden Throne. But:

Adeptus Astartes: The death of any chapter master? Doesn't advance any stories but the sibling rivalry in the Ultramarines, and even most Ultramarines players don't care.

Adeptus Guard? If Creed dies? They're still not going to let Chaos have Cadia. The dividing line between the Eye of Terror and the Imperium is entirely too similar to the Star Trek Neutral Zone to give up that story hook.

Abbadon? Kharn? etc? Still won't change, the Imperium would fare no better in the Eye than Chaos does in the Imperium. That rivalry is too central to advance beyond the stalemate.

Eldrad? He's already risen from the dead. There is some logic to Yriel or someone killing Slaanesh however to continue to roughly mirror Fantasy and 40K, however the most likely outcome there is that whoever kills Slaanesh becomes Slaanesh in a Final Fantasy X/Sin ripoff hinted at in the rules for (Lucius the Eternal?)

Necrons? So kill a dead guy who comes back from the dead a little more insane than the last time.

Orks? Do they even have a (active) story line where they aren't a pawn in someone else's story? Ghaz vs Yarrick isn't really active right now. Of course that could be the next campaign, Battle for Armageddon IV This time, it's... the same as last time.

Nids? Like Necrons they just recyle and then reincarnate their dead, only instead of more insane, they're more experienced.

So if this is a question of who would you kill to advance the story, who are the lychpins keeping the story at the status quo?

The Emperor

The Demon Primarchs that are apparently above getting involved in the ultimate goal of their slave masters, maintaining the status quo by their absence?

GW makes aliens look bad ass next to the IoM all the time. that said Orks are a general rule aren't a race you look to for quality. what makes Ghazkull so dangerous isn't his (admittingly impressive) physical prowess. it's that he mates it with a keen intellect. The Ork is both cunning and brutal

Let the emperor die, or at least make campaigns like Eye of Terror and Medusa count and be resolved. It would add to the lore of the ongoing setting like the Badab war.

BrianDavion wrote:
GW makes aliens look bad ass next to the IoM all the time. that said Orks are a general rule aren't a race you look to for quality. what makes Ghazkull so dangerous isn't his (admittingly impressive) physical prowess. it's that he mates it with a keen intellect. The Ork is both cunning and brutal

except that in every single game he gets randomly killed by garbage units and is only useful....wait...he isn't useful ever. SO yeah He sucks in the game so it would be nice if GW made him worth taking.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
GW makes aliens look bad ass next to the IoM all the time. that said Orks are a general rule aren't a race you look to for quality. what makes Ghazkull so dangerous isn't his (admittingly impressive) physical prowess. it's that he mates it with a keen intellect. The Ork is both cunning and brutal

except that in every single game he gets randomly killed by garbage units and is only useful....wait...he isn't useful ever. SO yeah He sucks in the game so it would be nice if GW made him worth taking.

So he's a character in 40K whose game stats doesn't live up to his fluff? boy... THATS LIKE EVERY SPACE MARINE EVER!

BrianDavion wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
GW makes aliens look bad ass next to the IoM all the time. that said Orks are a general rule aren't a race you look to for quality. what makes Ghazkull so dangerous isn't his (admittingly impressive) physical prowess. it's that he mates it with a keen intellect. The Ork is both cunning and brutal

except that in every single game he gets randomly killed by garbage units and is only useful....wait...he isn't useful ever. SO yeah He sucks in the game so it would be nice if GW made him worth taking.

So he's a character in 40K whose game stats doesn't live up to his fluff? boy... THATS LIKE EVERY SPACE MARINE EVER!

Really because I can think of a handful off the top of my head who are amazing. Mephiston and tigurius sticking out right away. Plus the average marine can just take Shield Eternal and a power fist (unless they took it away I don't know) and boom he is instantly better and significantly cheaper then ghaz.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
GW makes aliens look bad ass next to the IoM all the time. that said Orks are a general rule aren't a race you look to for quality. what makes Ghazkull so dangerous isn't his (admittingly impressive) physical prowess. it's that he mates it with a keen intellect. The Ork is both cunning and brutal

except that in every single game he gets randomly killed by garbage units and is only useful....wait...he isn't useful ever. SO yeah He sucks in the game so it would be nice if GW made him worth taking.

So he's a character in 40K whose game stats doesn't live up to his fluff? boy... THATS LIKE EVERY SPACE MARINE EVER!

Really because I can think of a handful off the top of my head who are amazing. Mephiston and tigurius sticking out right away. Plus the average marine can just take Shield Eternal and a power fist (unless they took it away I don't know) and boom he is instantly better and significantly cheaper then ghaz.

your average marine is a tatical marine. a tatical marine can take sheild eternal? really?

am I saying Ghazakull is great and couldn't use some love? no, but to think it's some sort of anti IoM conspiracy is silly. I'm sure there are a few IoM characters that kinda suck. hell Pedro only just got artifacer armor.

 gummyofallbears wrote:
drazhar. Crap in game, and stupid fluff.

-Mikey

I kinda like his fluff, but each to his own.

In terms of being crap in game, that seems like a rather poor reason to remove him - when you could make his rules less crap.

Kill Pugh for the Imperial Fists and promote Lysander so that he can get an extra attack and Orbital Bombardment.

Guess they'd probably have to increase his points though, since he has a company banner on his back on top of that...

Orks already lost a couple characters so I don't think I'd want anymore to go. I definitely want to keep Ghazzy but he should probably get a tweak for the game itself. Brian got it right, what makes Ghazzy scary for the humans in the fluff is that Ghazzy is a genius by human standards. He's not trying to conquer anything instead he's trying to move from Waaaaagh to Waaaaagh to boost the psykic signals until each given Waaaaagh reaches perpetual levels like Armageddon is at right now. Ghazzy's supplement picks up the story where the BRB left off. Ghazzy already cleaned Octaria of all the Tyranids and just when finished the confidence levels rose to such a height that a sudden green psykic ping stretched across the galaxy which all psykers felt and even dimmed the Astronomicon briefly. A new tendril of Tyranids is heading to Octaria along with billions of Orks but Ghazzy is making plans to leave and find another Waaaaagh to boost since Octaria will be perpetual too now. After boosting enough Waaaaagh!s across the galaxy Gork and Mork will be able to tear themselves out of the Warp and enter real space. Yes eventually Ghazzy needs to get killed but his death itself will be a plot device since his existance is extremely important for Ork fluff atm.

 triplegrim wrote:
Let the emperor die, or at least make campaigns like Eye of Terror and Medusa count and be resolved. It would add to the lore of the ongoing setting like the Badab war.

Is the Emperor a named HQ?! *Furiously checks GW website for golden throne model

 zgort wrote:
Is the Emperor a named HQ?! *Furiously checks GW website for golden throne model

Yep, pick him as the HQ and you get to take Adeptus Custodes as Troops!
Unfortunately, they come without armor...

 Crazyterran wrote:
Kill Pugh for the Imperial Fists and promote Lysander so that he can get an extra attack and Orbital Bombardment.

Guess they'd probably have to increase his points though, since he has a company banner on his back on top of that...

and likely a promotion to a LOW spot.

Kill Failbaddon any day- he's had 13 attempts at overthrowing the imperium, time to end it and let someone else have a crack!!!!

The Bloodsworn wrote:
Kill Failbaddon any day- he's had 13 attempts at overthrowing the imperium, time to end it and let someone else have a crack!!!!

I would love to see that Abaddon isn't the prophesized Traitor King. Never really liked him and having read some of the Horus Heresy series, my dislike for him has only grown.

Im sorry, I guess I didn't understand the question. Well, if they would remove any character to ADVANCE the story, and it still makes sense is definitely killing slaanesh.

If that could happen (it totally could, because the harlequinns have a necron weapon capable of killing a chaos god), if it died, then the other 3 chaos gods could fight for slaaneshs' territory in the warp, creating the apocalypse on earth, hopefully making an eighth edition that is better than age of shitmar.

or just resolve the campaign in the eye, maybe adding a little closure, but that would make a very small difference.

Forwarding the story could mean anything, however these are the only few ways I could think to make it better.

happy wargaming,

-Mikey

Slaanesh isn't a named HQ though :p

The point of the thread is killing playable Special Characters off to advance the story.

Jeeeez, the salt in this thread Everyone's just listing the characters they personally hate, not the ones that would advance the plot...

I'd kill off Marneus Calgar, in an awesome way. Tyranids come back, the Swarmlord gets a rematch with the old man and kills him off, leaving the Ultramarines and their successors without leadership. Everyone then looks to Cato Sicarius - Can he become a leader of men and fight his own arrogance? What will a situation like this do to humble him? Character development

Aun'va. There's nothing wrong with him, but with him at the forefront, everything is too tight in the Tau Empire. With him dead (assassinated by another race, propably Necrons, Eldar or Dark Eldar), Shadowsun takes control and begins to turn the Empire into a true military state, while Farsight plans to rob the throne from her... Two old rivals fighting for control of an Empire, with the Ethereals losing power and control, civil war approaching, and aliens being involved? Character development

Gazzkul could be killed, too - Defeated by Yarrick. Little did he know that this was a part of Gork and Mork's plan all along, because they have found themselves two new champions, that'll take over the biggest WAAAGH ever to live... Grukk Facerippa and Mogrok the Big Mek. When the Red Waagh, the Octarius Waagh and the Waagh on Armaggedon fuses, nothing can stop them. And on top of that, the twin gods will even have ready bodies to possess. How will Yarrick deal with two leaders at once? Might the only reason he survived have been that Ghazzy liked him as an opponnent, and will Grukk and Mogrok feel the same way? Character development

I'd kill off any character, as long as they die in an awesome fashion. So like:

- The Hive Mind tries to send out the Swarmlord one last time. So much biomass is used, the swarmlord resurrects, larger than it ever was. Cue kaiju film 40k. It ends with the Inquisition having to declare exterminate due to the Swarmlord being too big a threat.

- The prophecy of the Spear of Twilight comes true, and Yriel succumbs to it, however, not before using the spear's power, making a last stand to fight of Slaaneshi forces, saving his craftworld.

Heck, if they try to kill off an unlikable character this way, it might at least give the character a moment that people might find awesome.

Aun'va.

Only because his loss would actually cause the Tau some social upheaval... debatable how much, but at least some.
Everyone else is easily given a military burial with full honours, right before everything carries on with business as usual.

Commissar Yarrick. But not in a throwaway thing, no.

New Campaign Book: Fourth War for Armageddon. As both Ork and Chaos-tainted armies close in on the planet to settle old grudges, the Imperium digs in for what may be the fiercest fight yet. But other alien races may be lurking in the fringes in order to pick apart any targets of opportunity.

What would it incorporate? New missions, and a mission-chain story campaign for 2+ players. (Culminating in the death of Commissar Yarrick defeating the forces of disorder.) In addition to the main plot, focused around Armies of the Imperium on one side and a sort of alliance-by-default between the Orks and the forces of Chaos, (who will undoubtedly fight one another when things are either resolved or get too boring!) the book would contain several optional side plots so that any odd armies your group may contain, such as Eldar, Tau, or Tyranids, would still be able to play in the ongoing campaign.

And of course, it all ends with a huge Apoc battle, in which the canon story ending sees Commissar Yarrick (and possibly Ghazgul?) die fighting a Chaos incursion of unbelievable proportions.

 The Wise Dane wrote:


Gazzkul could be killed, too - Defeated by Yarrick. Little did he know that this was a part of Gork and Mork's plan all along, because they have found themselves two new champions, that'll take over the biggest WAAAGH ever to live... Grukk Facerippa and Mogrok the Big Mek. When the Red Waagh, the Octarius Waagh and the Waagh on Armaggedon fuses, nothing can stop them. And on top of that, the twin gods will even have ready bodies to possess. How will Yarrick deal with two leaders at once? Might the only reason he survived have been that Ghazzy liked him as an opponnent, and will Grukk and Mogrok feel the same way? Character development

What if Gork/Mork's new champion ends up being Yarrick? He speaks Ork, is Orky enuff to wield a Power Klaw, and is the Orkiest ummie in the galaxy.
Kidding of course.
But my one Character to kill is Lysander. He is a big jerk who almost got the entire 1st company killed (Sentinels of Terra I believe?) and was demoted. If he is killed, one of the First Founding chapters goes into disarray because of one death.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
GW makes aliens look bad ass next to the IoM all the time. that said Orks are a general rule aren't a race you look to for quality. what makes Ghazkull so dangerous isn't his (admittingly impressive) physical prowess. it's that he mates it with a keen intellect. The Ork is both cunning and brutal

except that in every single game he gets randomly killed by garbage units and is only useful....wait...he isn't useful ever. SO yeah He sucks in the game so it would be nice if GW made him worth taking.

So he's a character in 40K whose game stats doesn't live up to his fluff? boy... THATS LIKE EVERY SPACE MARINE EVER!

Really because I can think of a handful off the top of my head who are amazing. Mephiston and tigurius sticking out right away. Plus the average marine can just take Shield Eternal and a power fist (unless they took it away I don't know) and boom he is instantly better and significantly cheaper then ghaz.

your average marine is a tatical marine. a tatical marine can take sheild eternal? really?

am I saying Ghazakull is great and couldn't use some love? no, but to think it's some sort of anti IoM conspiracy is silly. I'm sure there are a few IoM characters that kinda suck. hell Pedro only just got artifacer armor.

I meant your average space marine HQ, such as captains and chapter masters. But that aside, why is it every time someone mentions buffing an Ork character someone immediately says something about it not being a IoM conspiracy

 AUGmaniac wrote:

 The Wise Dane wrote:


Gazzkul could be killed, too - Defeated by Yarrick. Little did he know that this was a part of Gork and Mork's plan all along, because they have found themselves two new champions, that'll take over the biggest WAAAGH ever to live... Grukk Facerippa and Mogrok the Big Mek. When the Red Waagh, the Octarius Waagh and the Waagh on Armaggedon fuses, nothing can stop them. And on top of that, the twin gods will even have ready bodies to possess. How will Yarrick deal with two leaders at once? Might the only reason he survived have been that Ghazzy liked him as an opponnent, and will Grukk and Mogrok feel the same way? Character development

What if Gork/Mork's new champion ends up being Yarrick? He speaks Ork, is Orky enuff to wield a Power Klaw, and is the Orkiest ummie in the galaxy.
Kidding of course.
But my one Character to kill is Lysander. He is a big jerk who almost got the entire 1st company killed (Sentinels of Terra I believe?) and was demoted. If he is killed, one of the First Founding chapters goes into disarray because of one death.

Each to their own - I'd rather not kill the jerks and idiots around the galaxy. I mostly don't care for the 'I'm da bestest' characters that plague the fluff, so the frw flawed and interesting characters around are like treasure to me.