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FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs wrote:
Isn't it funny how countries with a more educated populace are less religious?

'Funny' in what way?

The USA is much more religious than the UK while being a similarly educated country.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The USA is much more religious than the UK while being a similarly educated country.

In totality maybe. I'm fairly sure at least one study looked at it on a state basis and the results correlated.

 Baragash wrote:
In totality maybe. I'm fairly sure at least one study looked at it on a state basis and the results correlated.

Yeah, the state-by-state thing is important. The US is huge, and not uniform at all in education or religion. And it turns out that the "bible belt" states also happen to have really bad education levels. The actual reasons behind that correlation are probably a lot more complicated than "lol religious people are stupid", but it's definitely a trend.

 Peregrine wrote:
And it turns out that the "bible belt" states also happen to have really bad education levels.

Hey I lerned gud!

 Peregrine wrote:

 Baragash wrote:
In totality maybe. I'm fairly sure at least one study looked at it on a state basis and the results correlated.

Yeah, the state-by-state thing is important. The US is huge, and not uniform at all in education or religion. And it turns out that the "bible belt" states also happen to have really bad education levels. The actual reasons behind that correlation are probably a lot more complicated than "lol religious people are stupid", but it's definitely a trend.

Yeah I'm sure I saw a study a couple of years back showing a correlation.

It does stand to reason that a more educated populous would question the existence of God and the need for organised religion, that's in no way saying religious people are stupid. There are plenty of very educated people who have a very strong faith. I just think that you reach a point where you question more and more things the more educated you are, and are less likely to follow along with something blindly. The more people there are questioning somethings validity, the more likely they are to reject it.

 insaniak wrote:

FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs wrote:
Isn't it funny how countries with a more educated populace are less religious?

'Funny' in what way?

In a sarcastic way.

In that case, you might need to take more time to explain what you actually mean.

There certainly seems to be some correlation between the education level of the country overall and that country's religiosity... however, various studies over the years have delivered conflicting results about level of education vs religious belief. And a 2002 Gallup poll found that there wasn't actually that big a gap in the US between less well-educated people vs better-educated people and religious belief... and that the better educated people were actually more likely to go to church.

It's not actually as simple as 'better education means less religion'... and, of course, whether or not education that leads people away from religion is even a good thing in the first place is going to be entirely down to personal opinion on religion...

 insaniak wrote:
In that case, you might need to take more time to explain what you actually mean.

There certainly seems to be some correlation between the education level of the country overall and that country's religiosity... however, various studies over the years have delivered conflicting results about level of education vs religious belief. And a 2002 Gallup poll found that there wasn't actually that big a gap in the US between less well-educated people vs better-educated people and religious belief... and that the better educated people were actually more likely to go to church.

It's not actually as simple as 'better education means less religion'... and, of course, whether or not education that leads people away from religion is even a good thing in the first place is going to be entirely down to personal opinion on religion...

In general, education has an inverse relationship with religion. There is still a gap between well educated and poorly educated people in that gallup poll, and For every one poll that showed little gap you would find five that showed a comparatively large one.

In general, well educated people tend to be more active in a lot of things. More active in politics, volunteering, community, etc. Guess what church tends to involve?

All education leads people away from religion.

FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
In that case, you might need to take more time to explain what you actually mean.

There certainly seems to be some correlation between the education level of the country overall and that country's religiosity... however, various studies over the years have delivered conflicting results about level of education vs religious belief. And a 2002 Gallup poll found that there wasn't actually that big a gap in the US between less well-educated people vs better-educated people and religious belief... and that the better educated people were actually more likely to go to church.

It's not actually as simple as 'better education means less religion'... and, of course, whether or not education that leads people away from religion is even a good thing in the first place is going to be entirely down to personal opinion on religion...

In general, education has an inverse relationship with religion. There is still a gap between well educated and poorly educated people in that gallup poll, and For every one poll that showed little gap you would find five that showed a comparatively large one.

In general, well educated people tend to be more active in a lot of things. More active in politics, volunteering, community, etc. Guess what church tends to involve?

All education leads people away from religion.

All education? That's a bold statement. So you assume that anyone intelligent would be against religion?

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
So you assume that anyone intelligent would be against religion?

That's not what they said. "All education leads people away from religion" and "intelligent people are all against religion" are two very different concepts. A person can be intelligent but not highly educated, or intelligent and educated but have family ties/habits/etc offsetting the education factor and keeping them religious.

Of course, even if you consider the actual claim, it's obviously false. Religious education is a thing, and I don't think you can plausibly argue that things like far-right Christian homeschooling lead people away from religion. A more reasonable claim would be that secular education tends to lead people away from religion, since it reveals the incorrect factual claims religions often make (young-earth creationism, for example) and gets people to question their reasons for having religious beliefs. And it turns out that most, if not all, reasons for religious belief are bad ones and can only survive if you don't think about them too hard.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
So you assume that anyone intelligent would be against religion?

That's not what they said. "All education leads people away from religion" and "intelligent people are all against religion" are two very different concepts. A person can be intelligent but not highly educated, or intelligent and educated but have family ties/habits/etc offsetting the education factor and keeping them religious.

Of course, even if you consider the actual claim, it's obviously false. Religious education is a thing, and I don't think you can plausibly argue that things like far-right Christian homeschooling lead people away from religion. A more reasonable claim would be that secular education tends to lead people away from religion, since it reveals the incorrect factual claims religions often make (young-earth creationism, for example) and gets people to question their reasons for having religious beliefs. And it turns out that most, if not all, reasons for religious belief are bad ones and can only survive if you don't think about them too hard.

Gee, and here I thought you were going to objective.

FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs wrote:


In general, education has an inverse relationship with religion. There is still a gap between well educated and poorly educated people in that gallup poll, and For every one poll that showed little gap you would find five that showed a comparatively large one.

In general, well educated people tend to be more active in a lot of things. More active in politics, volunteering, community, etc. Guess what church tends to involve?

All education leads people away from religion.

It depends on who is the educator. Before mandatory government controlled secular education, the major players in the education market were the religious institutions. It was through education that religious institutions spread and maintained their beliefs. Mandatory government controlled secular education was pioneered in Britain by modernist secular captains of industry during the late Victorian period explicitly for breaking the market share of the religious institutions over education, as a generational project for making britain a substantially secular nation.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Gee, and here I thought you were going to objective.

I am being objective. "Objective" does not mean "not criticizing bad ideas".

 Peregrine wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Gee, and here I thought you were going to objective.

I am being objective. "Objective" does not mean "not criticizing bad ideas".

And there you go again. I'd say the scientific theory of how we came to be is a bad idea, but you might say that is a subjective because I believe my religion is infallible and nothing you say will make me think otherwise.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
And there you go again. I'd say the scientific theory of how we came to be is a bad idea, but you might say that is a subjective because I believe my religion is infallible and nothing you say will make me think otherwise.

No, I wouldn't say it's subjective, I'd say it's wrong.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
And there you go again. I'd say the scientific theory of how we came to be is a bad idea, but you might say that is a subjective because I believe my religion is infallible and nothing you say will make me think otherwise.

No, I wouldn't say it's subjective, I'd say it's wrong.

I'd I would say you are wrong. This leaves us at a stalemate. Now would you like to continue the disagreement train or exit at the next station?

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
I'd I would say you are wrong. This leaves us at a stalemate. Now would you like to continue the disagreement train or exit at the next station?

Let's continue the disagreement train. On my side is all of modern science. On your side is one piece of literature and a stubborn refusal to accept that your religion is fallible. I think the winner here should be obvious.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
I'd I would say you are wrong. This leaves us at a stalemate. Now would you like to continue the disagreement train or exit at the next station?

Let's continue the disagreement train. On my side is all of modern science. On your side is one piece of literature and a stubborn refusal to accept that your religion is fallible. I think the winner here should be obvious.

On my side is a book about God, an all-powerful, all-knowing, eternal being. On your side is man, with limited knowledge and power and very mortal. I think the winner should be obvious.

I wrote a book about my god Peregrine, which proves he is one.

Oh my, suddenly the balance shifted.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
I'd I would say you are wrong. This leaves us at a stalemate. Now would you like to continue the disagreement train or exit at the next station?

Let's continue the disagreement train. On my side is all of modern science. On your side is one piece of literature and a stubborn refusal to accept that your religion is fallible. I think the winner here should be obvious.

On my side is a book about God, an all-powerful, all-knowing, eternal being. On your side is man, with limited knowledge and power and very mortal. I think the winner should be obvious.

Written by men, and translated badly throughout the ages.

 Ashiraya wrote:
I wrote a book about my god Peregrine, which proves he is one.

Oh my, suddenly the balance shifted.

Are you mocking me?

The Bible is has much more meaning than you'd like to think.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
On my side is a book about God, an all-powerful, all-knowing, eternal being. On your side is man, with limited knowledge and power and very mortal. I think the winner should be obvious.

And? There are lots of books written about all-powerful all-knowing eternal beings. They're still fiction.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
On my side is a book about God, an all-powerful, all-knowing, eternal being. On your side is man, with limited knowledge and power and very mortal. I think the winner should be obvious.

And? There are lots of books written about all-powerful all-knowing eternal beings. They're still fiction.

My God is the true God and he is Blind Lo. He has tons of books written about him

The bible is a book written by a guy/bunch of guys who want you to think their god is real. So it is exactly the same as my Peregrine Cult book.

Sure, their book is older, but I really hope you have a better argument than 'appeal to tradition' to make me accept the existence of a an omnipotent being without any evidence. If we wait five thousand years so that the age difference becomes minor, will you then accept the divinity of our feathery lord?

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
The Bible is has much more meaning than you'd like to think.

Personal meaning? Perhaps. I won't deny that many people find meaning in it. But that doesn't change the fact that there is no credible evidence for its truth of its claims about things like the existence of god, how the world was created, etc.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
On my side is a book about God, an all-powerful, all-knowing, eternal being. On your side is man, with limited knowledge and power and very mortal. I think the winner should be obvious.

And? There are lots of books written about all-powerful all-knowing eternal beings. They're still fiction.

And there is one that is true.

Your move, Peregrine.

 Ashiraya wrote:
So it is exactly the same as my Peregrine Cult book.

I wouldn't go quite that far. The Peregrine Cult book does have the very important quality of not having any chapters full of endless "begat"s.

And there is one that is true.

Your move, Peregrine.

Yes, mine. It has just as much evidence as the bible ever had.

 Ashiraya wrote:

And there is one that is true.

Your move, Peregrine.

Yes, mine. It has just as much evidence as the bible ever had.

Heretic you dare besmirch the honor of Blind Lo written by the great prophet Terry Pratchett?!