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 Pouncey wrote:

 IllumiNini wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
I don't think my preferred army even has any supplements... or a wide enough variety of lore to make supplements possible without a huge amount of "pulling out of thin air" of lore to justify those supplements' creation.

In that case, a supplement that groups sub-factions that don't necessarily have enough material to warrant their own supplement but aren't generic sub-factions either is in order.

Sisters of Battle.

To my knowledge, no lore has set apart any one Order's preferred method of waging war distinctly apart from any other's.

I guess there's the various non-combat Orders like the Hospitallers. Not sure how you'd go about making an effective combat force out of power armored battlefield surgeons and torturers, but I'm sure it would be annoying as feth to try to kill despite the army-wide T3.

My apologies, I didn't phrase what I mean clearly enough. I mean one codex for Loyalist Marines. My bad.

In the case of the Inquisition, they're Ordos, and their Chamber Militant, I could see that being separated into 3 - 4 codeces:

(1) The Inquisition
(2) Sisters of Battle
(3) Grey Knights
(4) Death Watch

The Death Watch and the Grey Knights could potentially be rolled into the whole "Core Loyalist Marines Codex w/ Supplements" concept, but the Grey Knights could just as easily warrant the maintaining of their own codex. The Sisters of Battle should have their own codex.

 #1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
Gw focuses on what sells, and the imperium sells.

But that could also be seen as a cycle of sorts. The Space Marine sell well because GW put a lot into them - lots of models, lots of new rules, lots of marketing, etc etc etc, then once they keep selling well, they probably think something along the lines of "Imperium/Space Marines are selling well. Let's keep focusing on them."

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:
I'm cool with multiple codices. I like how marines have different flavours, often different enough to warrant a completely separate book.

If I'm going to be playing against marines 90% of the time, they should at least be different.

Shame it does not currently apply to any other faction?

Imperial Guard have much more diversity than Marines
Chaos Marines - both former Legions and newer renegades
Eldar - Craftworlds fight in their own way.

If any faction deserves to have a gakload of unique supplements and extra codices entirely, it's the Imperial Guard.

They're recruited from hundreds of thousands of different planets, each of which is allowed to train and equip them as they see fit so long as they meet the fairly-loose Imperial Guard standards. Huge potential for variety. You name a strategy, there's probably hundreds of worlds whose Regiments specialize in it.

There's, what, a thousand different Loyalist Chapters? With less than a dozen Loyalist Legions to draw their methods from as the source of their Gene-seed? And most of which are Codex-adherent regardless of the Legion they came from?

 IllumiNini wrote:


(1) The Inquisition
(2) Sisters of Battle
(3) Grey Knights
(4) Death Watch

The Death Watch and the Grey Knights could potentially be rolled into the whole "Core Loyalist Marines Codex w/ Supplements" concept, but the Grey Knights could just as easily warrant the maintaining of their own codex. The Sisters of Battle should have their own codex.

IMO, I'd rather see a solid "Inquisition" book, or maybe 2, where GK and Death Watch become more like Harlequins or Skitarii: a "supplement" to existing armies, designed to be best used as reinforcements to an existing force rather than a stand alone army.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 IllumiNini wrote:


(1) The Inquisition
(2) Sisters of Battle
(3) Grey Knights
(4) Death Watch

The Death Watch and the Grey Knights could potentially be rolled into the whole "Core Loyalist Marines Codex w/ Supplements" concept, but the Grey Knights could just as easily warrant the maintaining of their own codex. The Sisters of Battle should have their own codex.

IMO, I'd rather see a solid "Inquisition" book, or maybe 2, where GK and Death Watch become more like Harlequins or Skitarii: a "supplement" to existing armies, designed to be best used as reinforcements to an existing force rather than a stand alone army.

Deathwatch could honestly be part of either a core Inquisition Codex or a supplement to a generic Loyalist Marine Codex (or even part of the generic Loyalist Marine Codex). Sisters of Battle and Grey Knights both need at least a supplement, but could maintain their own codex. So there's at least three: (1) The Inquisition; (2) Sisters of Battle; and (3) Grey Knights. Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle are too unique and have too much content to be rolled into a single Inquisition book (not to mention the amount of lore that would be in an Inquisition codex if both factions were included).

IllumiNini wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 IllumiNini wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
I don't think my preferred army even has any supplements... or a wide enough variety of lore to make supplements possible without a huge amount of "pulling out of thin air" of lore to justify those supplements' creation.

In that case, a supplement that groups sub-factions that don't necessarily have enough material to warrant their own supplement but aren't generic sub-factions either is in order.

Sisters of Battle.

To my knowledge, no lore has set apart any one Order's preferred method of waging war distinctly apart from any other's.

I guess there's the various non-combat Orders like the Hospitallers. Not sure how you'd go about making an effective combat force out of power armored battlefield surgeons and torturers, but I'm sure it would be annoying as feth to try to kill despite the army-wide T3.

My apologies, I didn't phrase what I mean clearly enough. I mean one codex for Loyalist Marines. My bad.

In the case of the Inquisition, they're Ordos, and their Chamber Militant, I could see that being separated into 3 - 4 codeces:

(1) The Inquisition
(2) Sisters of Battle
(3) Grey Knights
(4) Death Watch

The Death Watch and the Grey Knights could potentially be rolled into the whole "Core Loyalist Marines Codex w/ Supplements" concept, but the Grey Knights could just as easily warrant the maintaining of their own codex. The Sisters of Battle should have their own codex.

 #1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
Gw focuses on what sells, and the imperium sells.

But that could also be seen as a cycle of sorts. The Space Marine sell well because GW put a lot into them - lots of models, lots of new rules, lots of marketing, etc etc etc, then once they keep selling well, they probably think something along the lines of "Imperium/Space Marines are selling well. Let's keep focusing on them."

Yeah, it is a bit of a vicious circle, but even if they put the same amount of work into, say, Orks, would they make as much money? As much as it is the community using the newer stuff, and stuff that will never be underpowered, I have a feeling some people would still want their marines more just because that's what appeals to them. Some people still make choices based on what's cool, and a large part of the customer base think that's marines.

tl;dr Orks aren't as cool.

Pouncey wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:
I'm cool with multiple codices. I like how marines have different flavours, often different enough to warrant a completely separate book.

If I'm going to be playing against marines 90% of the time, they should at least be different.

Shame it does not currently apply to any other faction?

Imperial Guard have much more diversity than Marines
Chaos Marines - both former Legions and newer renegades
Eldar - Craftworlds fight in their own way.

If any faction deserves to have a gakload of unique supplements and extra codices entirely, it's the Imperial Guard.

They're recruited from hundreds of thousands of different planets, each of which is allowed to train and equip them as they see fit so long as they meet the fairly-loose Imperial Guard standards. Huge potential for variety. You name a strategy, there's probably hundreds of worlds whose Regiments specialize in it.

There's, what, a thousand different Loyalist Chapters? With less than a dozen Loyalist Legions to draw their methods from as the source of their Gene-seed? And most of which are Codex-adherent regardless of the Legion they came from?

To be fair, if everything in the fluff is to be properly represented, there'd be thousands of supplement books. The best chance you've got is the treatment of a couple pages of guard "chapter tactics" for the memorable regiments. But I doubt none other than cadian would be used considering the price tag on those vostroyans, as beautiful as they are.

There's simply far too much variety in 40k for everyone to be properly represented, someones going to get the shaft.

Do guard really deserve multiple codices? As a guard player for like 10 years I never felt like I couldn't create an army based around one of the major factions themes. The only one missing is a "feral" guard, made up of people using indigenous weapons and paper armour. That could easily be slotted into the main dex if GW thought it was interesting.
A few more flavour units in the guard dex would be nice, but the meat and potatoes of any regiment are always vets, platoons, artillery and Russes.

They all carry lasguns. They all use tanks. They all die in droves. In the end a man is a man is a man. It's not like Astartes who all are wildly different. A Space Wolf is nothing like a Blood Angel is nothing like an Iron Fist.

 IllumiNini wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 IllumiNini wrote:


(1) The Inquisition
(2) Sisters of Battle
(3) Grey Knights
(4) Death Watch

The Death Watch and the Grey Knights could potentially be rolled into the whole "Core Loyalist Marines Codex w/ Supplements" concept, but the Grey Knights could just as easily warrant the maintaining of their own codex. The Sisters of Battle should have their own codex.

IMO, I'd rather see a solid "Inquisition" book, or maybe 2, where GK and Death Watch become more like Harlequins or Skitarii: a "supplement" to existing armies, designed to be best used as reinforcements to an existing force rather than a stand alone army.

Deathwatch could honestly be part of either a core Inquisition Codex or a supplement to a generic Loyalist Marine Codex (or even part of the generic Loyalist Marine Codex). Sisters of Battle and Grey Knights both need at least a supplement, but could maintain their own codex. So there's at least three: (1) The Inquisition; (2) Sisters of Battle; and (3) Grey Knights. Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle are too unique and have too much content to be rolled into a single Inquisition book (not to mention the amount of lore that would be in an Inquisition codex if both factions were included).

Do you actually know anything about the Deathwatch?

FFG, working with GW, has been fleshing them out to a crazy extent. Some of what they have done was even mentioned in Overkill and Ignition so that makes a large amount of the basics best considered canon.

 Griddlelol wrote:
Do guard really deserve multiple codices? As a guard player for like 10 years I never felt like I couldn't create an army based around one of the major factions themes. The only one missing is a "feral" guard, made up of people using indigenous weapons and paper armour. That could easily be slotted into the main dex if GW thought it was interesting.
A few more flavour units in the guard dex would be nice, but the meat and potatoes of any regiment are always vets, platoons, artillery and Russes.

They all carry lasguns. They all use tanks. They all die in droves. In the end a man is a man is a man. It's not like Astartes who all are wildly different. A Space Wolf is nothing like a Blood Angel is nothing like an Iron Fist.

If you look at the Older Guards Codexes and BL novels you have a massive variety of equipment, backgrounds, tradiitons, appearance, doctrine,

Feral worlders with near medieval, Regiments with steampunk power armour, otehrs with special laser resistant mirror armour etc etc.

If you use the same logic

Marines: they all carry Bolters, They all use tanks, they all kill stuff. Some of the background fluff for the Chapters is different and they might ear different coloured armour and have different decoration but actually they are very very similar.

A Space Wolf talks differently, has a different outlook erc but then so does a Tanith veteran to Mordian Iron guard to a Ctachan Jungle fighter. Kanak Skull takers are very different to the Terrax guard and thats not even getting into the BL regiments rather than the actual Codex ones.

Yeah, it is a bit of a vicious circle, but even if they put the same amount of work into, say, Orks, would they make as much money? As much as it is the community using the newer stuff, and stuff that will never be underpowered, I have a feeling some people would still want their marines more just because that's what appeals to them. Some people still make choices based on what's cool, and a large part of the customer base think that's marines.

We dont know because they seldom try - when they do its often a massive commercial success - Dark Eldar, Knights and Tau anyone?

Even when they do Marines they just keep coming back to the same old Chapters - make new stuff for other Chapters like White Scars, Iron Hands, Raven Guard - nah just stick a big Wolfman on a wolf sleigh - Wolf WOLF WOLF

 Kanluwen wrote:
Do you actually know anything about the Deathwatch?

FFG, working with GW, has been fleshing them out to a crazy extent. Some of what they have done was even mentioned in Overkill and Ignition so that makes a large amount of the basics best considered canon.

Considering my reading list is longer than I am tall, I haven't been able to keep up with relatively recent changes to canon with respect to the Deathwatch. If you would care to elaborate on why having Deathwatch as a supplement or as part of another core codex is a bad idea, I would appreciate it.

 IllumiNini wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Do you actually know anything about the Deathwatch?

FFG, working with GW, has been fleshing them out to a crazy extent. Some of what they have done was even mentioned in Overkill and Ignition so that makes a large amount of the basics best considered canon.

Considering my reading list is longer than I am tall, I haven't been able to keep up with relatively recent changes to canon with respect to the Deathwatch. If you would care to elaborate on why having Deathwatch as a supplement or as part of another core codex is a bad idea, I would appreciate it.

Deathwatch are no longer "just" groups of Marines formed ad hoc from the various Chapters.

They are an organization, with Watch Fortresses stationed around the Imperium. They have permanent members who stay with the Deathwatch rather than returning to their parent Chapter and form the command core of the Deathwatch.
They have a specific type of Deathwatch operative called the "Blackshields" which is, seemingly, penitent members of the renegade Chapters or those Loyalist Chapters who feel they cannot return to their parent Chapter.

There's a lot of material to draw from, and they are far from just Kill-Teams these days.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Deathwatch are no longer "just" groups of Marines formed ad hoc from the various Chapters.

They are an organization, with Watch Fortresses stationed around the Imperium. They have permanent members who stay with the Deathwatch rather than returning to their parent Chapter and form the command core of the Deathwatch.
They have a specific type of Deathwatch operative called the "Blackshields" which is, seemingly, penitent members of the renegade Chapters or those Loyalist Chapters who feel they cannot return to their parent Chapter.

There's a lot of material to draw from, and they are far from just Kill-Teams these days.

That's good to know.... I know I made my comment based on older, previous editions of 40k knowledge. For all I knew, the Death Watch were "Sternguard with cool guns"