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Made in us
Swift Swooping Hawk





Massachusetts

I have been running fusion pistol harlies with SfD and loving it. I played against my first horde army last night, and found that even though on paper i didn't have the tools to win... I did just fine. I did lose th game, but only because i made some bonehead decision at the end.

Also, we were playing Nova missions.

"What we do in life, echoes in eternity" - Maximus Meridius

Check out Veterans of the Long War Podcast -
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Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

I have been running fusion pistol harlies with SfD and loving it.

This is the kind of answer I'd like to hear. But details of army list are missing...

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Swift Swooping Hawk





Massachusetts

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/733945.page

It's not a super tight honed list, but it has done well.

"What we do in life, echoes in eternity" - Maximus Meridius

Check out Veterans of the Long War Podcast -
https://www.facebook.com/VeteransOfTheLongWar 
   
Made in us
Hellion Hitting and Running






I personally feel that SfD is better than raising crescendo. Both are amazing abilities but the way I play I don't feel I need raising crescendo. The only unit that I wish had raising crescendo that doesn't is the skyweavers, they are the only unit that really needs it.

My list
Spoiler:

yvraine
shadowseer
solitaire
4xstarweavers 5 troupes with fusion and embrace
starweavers/shiningspears/scourge (I switch this slot up a lot)

This is my typical match:

Turn 1: Everything is in a starweaver. I get yvraine and the shadowseer out, move everything up the board. I might blitz my solitaire this turn if I am planning on targeting it with words of the phoenix. In the physic phase I cast twilight pathways on a starweaver and words of the phoenix on the solitare or jetbikes/scourge. This means I can turn 1, move a starweaver 32" and the jetbikes 32" or the solitaire 24" + 2x2d6 or just shoot twice with the scourge. No need for raising crescendo this turn. It would be nice on the skyweavers but again I don't always take them. On the other hand SfD allows for a double movement/double shot which is very strong. Now that the solitaire fits in a starweaver I only have 5 units to place so I usually go first.

Turn 2:
I have one unit of harlequins that is 32" up the board and three units that are 16". Getting out of a starweaver and moving 8" usually puts me in charge range. I still have the shadowseer to move one unit twice and yvraine can make another unit soul burst to move twice. This turn raising crescendo would be nice but words of the phoenix to move twice or shoot twice with fusion pistols or what ever is more powerful. I am already in the enemies back line so an extra 6d inches matters very little. Most of the charges I make are from point blank range.

Turn 3:
Raising crescendo would be nice if I was stuck in combat and wanted to get out and charge something else. But most things fear staying in combat with us so they usually fall back on their turn, leaving us exposed to fire from the rest of the army. I rarely find myself in combat at the start of my turn. The only exception is when someone tried to tank shock my troupes to slow them down. But that is not a big deal as fusion pistols fire into combat and you can soul burst after killing the tank.

Obviously not every game plays out the same but for the most part I feel soul burst does more than raising crescendo.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/26 15:17:01


 
   
Made in au
Screaming Shining Spear





Western Australia

The problem is casting is not reliable. You can fail to cast or be dispelled - sometimes easily depending on who you are facing.

For gaming, hobby and events in Perth, Western Australia - https://objectivesecured.com.au 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Also Yinnari are dirty. Why side with an upstart God of death when you can be with Cegorach?

Edit: deleted double post

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/07/26 17:12:48


 
   
Made in us
Hellion Hitting and Running






 Massaen wrote:
The problem is casting is not reliable. You can fail to cast or be dispelled - sometimes easily depending on who you are facing.
on the same note advancing is not reliable, except for skyweavers. You should be using twilight pathways regardless if you are ynnari or not. so it is really about words of the Phoenix which has a 18" range and a +1 to casting roll making it hard dispell.

I am not saying raising cresendo is bad, rather SfD if you ever get to trigger it is better.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





North Coast, NSW, Australia

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vgk-lA12FBk

Can't you have two detachments? I thought the FAQ said it was OK. You can put the best SFD stuff in Ynarri and RC in Harlquins.

'Anyone can win, but it takes a good man to lose.'
-Louis Guzman 
   
Made in us
Hellion Hitting and Running






 Lurker wrote:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vgk-lA12FBk

Can't you have two detachments? I thought the FAQ said it was OK. You can put the best SFD stuff in Ynarri and RC in Harlquins.
So the only unit I think that benefits from raising crescendo is skyweavers but I am not sure 1) that they are good enough to deserve a stop on the list 2)that strength from death is not better for 32" movements.
   
Made in au
Screaming Shining Spear





Western Australia

I think SfD is no where near as good as you make out. Its great - awesome in fact for craftworlds - but the opportunity effects crescendo present and the lack of required trigger mean its way more reliable and you get it for every unit, every turn.

As an example, every harlie can use crescendo T1 with no issue while SfD will likely involve you losing a unit to trigger it on another T1 without casting Word.

It might just be a difference in how we play but I see little to no value in making Harlies into Ynnari - crescendo is, IMO, to good to lose.

For gaming, hobby and events in Perth, Western Australia - https://objectivesecured.com.au 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

 Massaen wrote:
I think SfD is no where near as good as you make out. Its great - awesome in fact for craftworlds - but the opportunity effects crescendo present and the lack of required trigger mean its way more reliable and you get it for every unit, every turn.

As an example, every harlie can use crescendo T1 with no issue while SfD will likely involve you losing a unit to trigger it on another T1 without casting Word.

It might just be a difference in how we play but I see little to no value in making Harlies into Ynnari - crescendo is, IMO, to good to lose.

Well, I can see that RC is too good to give up when playing a pure Harlie army.
When you come from Craftworlds, you have no good cc unit and then Harlies are a decent add-on. Then the question, Ynnari or not, is vital.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

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Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Ynnari is not good for Harlies as your units are already small, so this means that most opponents just weaken off a unit to 1-2 models with shooting and then focus on something else.

rising crescendo is amazing especially at reaching back field units quickly.

however I use dark elder outrider detachment for extra units, not pure harlies, so going Ynnari is really not an option as power from pain is too good to lose.
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

froper98 wrote:
Ynnari is not good for Harlies as your units are already small, so this means that most opponents just weaken off a unit to 1-2 models with shooting and then focus on something else.

rising crescendo is amazing especially at reaching back field units quickly.

however I use dark elder outrider detachment for extra units, not pure harlies, so going Ynnari is really not an option as power from pain is too good to lose.

Depends on how you play the game.
First turn charge of a Harlie army may work or may not work. If you are up against a shooty army, this can be beneficial. However, against a cc oriented army, a first turn charge can be suicide.
My Craftworlds army is more shooty oriented and lacks proper cc units. Here some add-on cc units can be icing on the cake. Hang back with the Harlies and let the enemy at your terms is one way to play the game.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Hellion Hitting and Running






 Massaen wrote:
I think SfD is no where near as good as you make out. Its great - awesome in fact for craftworlds - but the opportunity effects crescendo present and the lack of required trigger mean its way more reliable and you get it for every unit, every turn.

As an example, every harlie can use crescendo T1 with no issue while SfD will likely involve you losing a unit to trigger it on another T1 without casting Word.

It might just be a difference in how we play but I see little to no value in making Harlies into Ynnari - crescendo is, IMO, to good to lose.

Do you play with starweavers? Do your players have fusion pistols? It seems most people play 5 players with embrace and fusion pistols in a starweaver. If this is the case then T1 your harlequins COULD use crescendo but they are in a starweaver so they won't. T2 is probably the turn you want to get out of your starweavers and advance. Does your opponent have a vehicle? You can not advance and shoot your fusion pistols. So what do you do, advance and charge or not advance and shoot with your pistols you payed 9pts for? A full troupe with fusion pistols have a good chance at taking down a rhino, if you shoot it and have SfD you can then move forward with soulburst to charge the marines that will be coming out of it. After T3 you should be far enough in the enemies back line that the extra movement doesn't mean much and you would probably want to use your pistols more.


froper98 wrote:
Ynnari is not good for Harlies as your units are already small, so this means that most opponents just weaken off a unit to 1-2 models with shooting and then focus on something else.

rising crescendo is amazing especially at reaching back field units quickly.

however I use dark elder outrider detachment for extra units, not pure harlies, so going Ynnari is really not an option as power from pain is too good to lose.

I don't plan on using my own units for soul burst triggers. I think that is the wrong way to play Ynnari in general. Instead I play soul burst as an extra effect I get for killing something. Kill a transport? Okay now move closer to the enemy so you can insure your charge. Killed a unit? Lets fire our fusion pistols at the Captain that was standing right behind them. Its those little effects with the addition of words of the phoenix (one, if not the, best power in the game) that make strength from death so powerful.
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

It seems most people play 5 players with embrace and fusion pistols in a starweaver.

Seems to be the standard loadout. As said with SfD it can have some benefit in the same turn. Destroy a tank with fusion guns and then charge some unit nearby.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






After playing Ynnari Harlequins can i can say its not as good as RC (from my objective view point in playing 8th).

The Ability to shut units down, fallback, move, advance and shoot and still charge is just really good. I dont turn 1 charge unless i play with Skyweavers and then they are the only ones that charge turn 1.

Yes Fusion is good and the idea of shooting 5-6 Fusion guns x2 is neat, it just doesnt work in many parts of the game. From my experience the Caress/embraces in melee just does way more damage (i still play with a couple fusions per unit for sure just not 5 man units of them).


If you are in range of shooting fusion you are in range to charge


My best E:HQ games have been with RC, Ynnari E:HQ is a niche army that will work amazing sometimes but RC works amazing all the time.

just my 0.2c

   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

After playing Ynnari Harlequins can i can say its not as good as RC (from my objective view point in playing 8th).

A pure Harlie army should be played as a Harlie army, not as a Ynnari army.
The situation changes if you play Harlies (together with CW or DE) as part of a Ynnari army.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 wuestenfux wrote:
After playing Ynnari Harlequins can i can say its not as good as RC (from my objective view point in playing 8th).

A pure Harlie army should be played as a Harlie army, not as a Ynnari army.
The situation changes if you play Harlies (together with CW or DE) as part of a Ynnari army.


I normally done play Pure Harlequins anymore, having units like Dark Reapers, Ravagers etc.. just helps them extremely well.

   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

 Amishprn86 wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
After playing Ynnari Harlequins can i can say its not as good as RC (from my objective view point in playing 8th).

A pure Harlie army should be played as a Harlie army, not as a Ynnari army.
The situation changes if you play Harlies (together with CW or DE) as part of a Ynnari army.


I normally done play Pure Harlequins anymore, having units like Dark Reapers, Ravagers etc.. just helps them extremely well.

As a Ynnari army or as a conglomerate of CW, DE, and Harlies?

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






As conglomerate,, Eldar and DE are 99% the time just vehicles so i dont care to be Ynnari for a few vehicles.

My best games so far has been 3 DE or Eldar vehicles (eitehr Bombers/Ravagers or Hemlocks/Hunters), 4 units of Troupes, 2 Shadowseers, 2 Troupe Masters and a Solitaire.

I've fought against Dante Vehicle spam (he had 3 fliers and 4? Razorbacks, he wanted to save points for some of the Sang Guard for a Melee punch), I had 0 problems, we actually fought a few times for hi to try to figure out how to beat it.

I was playing with 8 drops, now i will be playing with 7 due to Solitaire changes.

   
Made in ca
Lurking Gaunt





Canada

This thread has been a great read, thank you all!

I'm coming from Iyanden wraith heavy and looking to expand with some Harlequins. The below list is intended to be fun and semi-competitive:

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Harlequins) [37 PL, 677pts] ++

+ Dedicated Transport +

Starweaver [5 PL, 99pts]: 2x Shuriken Cannon

+ HQ +

Shadowseer [7 PL, 134pts]: 1. Twilight Pathways, Shuriken Pistol

Troupe Master [4 PL, 74pts]: Fusion Pistol, Harlequin's Embrace, The Mask of Secrets

+ Elites +

Death Jester [4 PL, 60pts]

Death Jester [4 PL, 60pts]

Solitaire [6 PL, 110pts]: Harlequin's Caress, Harlequin's Kiss

+ Troops +

Troupe [7 PL, 140pts]
. Player: Fusion Pistol, Harlequin's Embrace
. Player: Fusion Pistol, Harlequin's Embrace
. Player: Fusion Pistol, Harlequin's Embrace
. Player: Fusion Pistol, Harlequin's Blade
. Player: Fusion Pistol, Harlequin's Blade

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [47 PL, 823pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Craftworld Attribute: Iyanden: Stoic Endurance

+ Dedicated Transport +

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 129pts]: Twin Shuriken Cannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 129pts]: Twin Shuriken Cannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ HQ +

Spiritseer [3 PL, 45pts]: 1. Conceal/Reveal, Iyanden: Enduring Resolve, Psytronome of Iyanden, Shuriken Pistol, Warlord

+ Elites +

Bonesinger [4 PL, 70pts]

Wraithguard [11 PL, 225pts]: D-scythe, 5x Wraithguard

Wraithguard [11 PL, 225pts]: D-scythe, 5x Wraithguard

++ Total: [84 PL, 1500pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

The death jesters and bonesinger are to help fill out detachments for CP, and I want to see how DJ performs for me. I've also picked up triumvirate so may test rising crescendo vs. SfD for my playstyle.

I hear mixed results for solitaire as well, if neither perform well I'll likely drop Harlie detachment to patrol and fit in more troupes in starweavers.




5 successful Dakka Swap Shop transactions! 
   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut




Death Jesters look cool, but even with the point drop they're bad. You pay 60pts for a BS2+ shuriken cannon. A Starweaver (50pts per BS3+ shuricannon) nets almost as many hits per points, but can transport stuff.
The Solitaire always disappointed me. It's not that bad, but it's not the character killer I hoped it would be. It can often blitz and charge an isolated character, but it doesn't have the punch to kill it in one phase. It's still decent against weak units, especially heavy weapon teams of some sort, but it's not the star player it could have been.

It's hard for me to give you specific advice since you're not trying to build the most competitive list (DJ and Solitaires look so cool it's hard not to include them). But I think you don't have enough models, and have too many characters overall. You also lack ranged anti-tank. By droping a Death jester and trying to find a few more points somewhere else (which isn't very easy given your detachment structure), you could try to fit a Voidweaver, or another unit of players. These players could take caresses and use the deep-strike stratagem to drop with the shadowseer (then you use twilight pathway to put them 1" away from the enemy, for a drop-in charge). But that would also eat away most of your CPs.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/22/breaking-news-major-revealsgw-homepage-post-1/


As for now, i think we should keep using this forum but when the codex drops, make a new topic.

   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut




It's good news, but there isn't much to discuss sadly. The only information is that we'll get Masque rules, but that was a given.

Haywire cannons need a huge rework, and I hope we'll be able to gather some info about an upcoming change from the DE codex. If Haywire blasters change a lot (I would love if they dropped the MWs for hits that always wound on a fixed number against vehicles), that could be an indication of similar changes for Harlies.
Apart from that, I think any discussion is mostly wishlisting.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






As for a Haywire rework - I'd love to see it become more like what "melta" is to lascannons/dark lances for something like an autocannon/shuriken cannon. An anti-light vehicle weapon that is mid-strength, low AP, but causes lots of wounds against lower toughness and save vehicles.

I'd probably make it a fairly short range rapidfire weapon (Probably the current 18" range) with something like S7, AP-1, D3 damage, auto hit like a flamer. Make it a high risk/high reward for getting the half range, and make it a viable anti-flyer weapon as well. Because it's a lightning weapon!

Dark Eldar/Harlequins already have plenty of "super penetrative goes right through the armor" weapons.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






The point of Haywire is guaranteed (or more likely) wounds on vehicles. The MW's is fine. Haywire just needs to be always D3 wound and a 6 is always 3 wounds.

As for HWC's, they and Prismatic Cannons just needs to be assault weapons.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/22 13:12:27


   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 Amishprn86 wrote:
The point of Haywire is guaranteed (or more likely) wounds on vehicles. The MW's is fine. Haywire just needs to be always D3 wound and a 6 is always 3 wounds.

As for HWC's, they and Prismatic Cannons just needs to be assault weapons.


The problem in 8th is that the old distinction (Haywire auto-glancing vehicles out with lots of wounds rather than fishing for explodes results like Darklight weaponry) doesn't exist in 8th. They're directly doing the same thing fusion/darklight does, so one is always just going to do more consistent damage than the other.

Might as well come up with a new role for it. Heck, we already took the three harlequin melee weapons and swapped their roles around for no reason.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






i never said anything about keeping it the same from 7th to 8th, sadly tho they will not change haywire. Its in to many codex's at this point.

If we could completely re do the rule and not faq the damage (I think GW will faq the damage thats why i said to up the damage).

But a full rewrite, i would make it effect vehicles and deal damage, example "If Haywire would deal an unsave wound, that vehicle now moves at 1/2 speed and can not advance", or something like that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/22 15:12:35


   
Made in us
Furious Fire Dragon




USA

If the Drukhari spoilers are anything to go on, the Harlequin codex may breathe some competitive spirit into the army. I hope they add an extra unit or three to flesh out the force. Also, Death Jesters need to not be completely useless offensively.

We mortals are but shadows and dust...
6k
:harlequin: 2k
2k
2k 
   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut




 mokoshkana wrote:
If the Drukhari spoilers are anything to go on, the Harlequin codex may breathe some competitive spirit into the army. I hope they add an extra unit or three to flesh out the force. Also, Death Jesters need to not be completely useless offensively.

So far it seems like they put a lot of thoughts in the DE codex, but sadly it doesn't mean it will be the same for the Harlequins.
I'm not very optimistic for new Harlequin units. I guess something like a troupe master on Skyweaver would be a possibility, as it's an easy conversion and would give some use to the many troupe master most of us have laying around, but even that is a far stretch.
   
 
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